How to easily improve LFG and make M+ less horrific to pug

[kamuimac]

People do use it and if MDI/RIO or whatever else is "elitist and toxic" logs would be the next thing to use as a filter.

this is why all elitest addons like .io , logs , weak auras should be removed from game and forcing oher to use them should be followed with permabans.

look at how FF 14 deals with toxic elitest people. they had no problem to get rid of them from their game

all it took was to scare people with permabans.

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Harsh way to put it but its true. Ran a 14 SD with 700-900 IO players yesterday. For one, the tank didn't know a proper route he was just pulling everything. Secondly they didn't know how to properly soak orbs on 1st boss making it a nightmare to heal. Lastly they couldn't do enough dps to kill the 2nd boss and the group just fell apart. IO is what we have to judge players by and its generally accurate enough. Do that same key with 1300-1400 players and its a guaranteed stress free 2 chest.

this is another ultra toxic element

anyone even mentioning mdi routes and enforcing them on other shoudl be also permabanned.

[Relapses]

this is why all elitest addons like .io , logs , weak auras should be removed from game and forcing oher to use them should be followed with permabans.

look at how FF 14 deals with toxic elitest people. they had no problem to get rid of them from their game

all it took was to scare people with permabans.

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this is another ultra toxic element

anyone even mentioning mdi routes and enforcing them on other shoudl be also permabanned.

Alright dude, we all had a giggle when you pretended that R.IO was the problem. But you're trying just a little bit too hard now.

[crusadernero]

From my experience, I get shittons of people signing up when I created my own groups. Even high keys was no problem. The only issue at times was getting healers and especially tanks, but thats always been an issue from time to time. Luckily I play alot of healers/tanks so thats often not a issue.

I'd highly recommend people to jump in and create your own groups. Invite whoever you want and try on your own. It was a deep climb for me to decide on doing it, but it really helped.

If people are toxic dickbags, put them on ignorelist. That way you never need to interact with them again. Dont even bother trying to negotiate and talk with them for long. Put on ignore, carry on. Now dont mistake making errors/faults for being toxic. Mistakes happens, being toxic shitholes is a choice.

[SirReal]

nah - removal or toxic raider.io would instantly improve lfg experience.

Before raider.io we just used the armory to look up pugs for harder content. There was always a vetting process, and always will be. Raider.io makes this significantly more efficient.

Also, as a person that got started way late this expac, creating your own groups still works really well. You can then choose not to use raider.io

[antelope591]

this is why all elitest addons like .io , logs , weak auras should be removed from game and forcing oher to use them should be followed with permabans.

look at how FF 14 deals with toxic elitest people. they had no problem to get rid of them from their game

all it took was to scare people with permabans.

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this is another ultra toxic element

anyone even mentioning mdi routes and enforcing them on other shoudl be also permabanned.

The whole point of the pride mechanic is to optimize your route to have pride available for bosses especially on Tyran weeks. That's something blizzard came up with not the players. If you're gonna ignore that why do a key above 10?

[Specialka]

this is why all elitest addons like .io , logs , weak auras should be removed from game and forcing oher to use them should be followed with permabans.

look at how FF 14 deals with toxic elitest people. they had no problem to get rid of them from their game

all it took was to scare people with permabans.

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this is another ultra toxic element

anyone even mentioning mdi routes and enforcing them on other shoudl be also permabanned.

FF 14 high end pve scene is as toxic as the m+ or raid ones in Wow.

The rest of the pve is easy enough so you do not have the need to trim the rabble to get it done.

[Darkeon]

Probably easier to just hold Blizzard accountable for the shitty speccs & overall balance.

[ellieg]

this is why all elitest addons like .io , logs , weak auras should be removed from game and forcing oher to use them should be followed with permabans.

look at how FF 14 deals with toxic elitest people. they had no problem to get rid of them from their game

all it took was to scare people with permabans.

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this is another ultra toxic element

anyone even mentioning mdi routes and enforcing them on other shoudl be also permabanned.

Its not "MDI routes". Its routes that spawn prideful at the right time before bosses or hard packs. It is the level 10 affix. The affix blizzard designed and balanced the difficulty around. Ignoring this is just as bad as ignoring any other affix, like explosive or sanguine

[procne]

Or Blizzard could simply add M+ to the automatic LFD. People that love to play with randoms will use it, people that love to have at least a vague idea of how the applicants will perform will use the actual method of party creation.

I... but... what would that fix? Sure, maybe someone would use it for low keys, but surely not for the high ones. And noone checks rio for low level keys anyway, so what's the difference?

[chiddie]

The truth is that blizzard’s decision to make tanks weaker, plus the ever increasing coordination requirements for m+, has completely destroyed the pug m+ scene. Once you get above +9, it’s an utter disaster until you reach +15 groups with high IO requirements.

It’s not raider.io’s fault. It’s a wonky difficulty curve that goes 0-100 in about 2 keystone levels combined with less pug friendly class design (weak tanks that need more help).

Also, this.

Pros and ppl with fixed groups may disagree, but the difficulty real ramps up from 9 onwards, especially during Tyr weeks where not having enough dps will result in being just not able to kill bosses.

Especially +9 is the worst M+ level imho because you have almost the +10 difficulty but without the Prideful help.

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I... but... what would that fix? Sure, maybe someone would use it for low keys, but surely not for the high ones. And noone checks rio for low level keys anyway, so what's the difference?

Don’t underestimate the casuals. Ppl that are not accepted because low rio and/or out of meta will queue for them “forever”, also because you can do other stuff while in queue, while now you have basically to hunt the premade group section forever.

Just add some sections for LFD
-M0
M1-3
M4-6
M7-9
M10-12
M13-15
M16+

put a minimum ilvl requirement for every bracket (like heroic dungeons requiring at least 155) and give it a go. It will be a success in no time.

[Razion]

People creating groups themselves seems like part of the problem. Maybe just have the Finder make the groups, and require people have cleared each level before the next and have a certain ilv before they can queue for it. Might take longer to unlock up to higher key levels, tho. Could be solved by M+ dropping another piece of loot again.

[procne]

People creating groups themselves seems like part of the problem. Maybe just have the Finder make the groups, and require people have cleared each level before the next and have a certain ilv before they can queue for it. Might take longer to unlock up to higher key levels, tho. Could be solved by M+ dropping another piece of loot again.

Don’t underestimate the casuals. Ppl that are not accepted because low rio and/or out of meta will queue for them “forever”, also because you can do other stuff while in queue, while now you have basically to hunt the premade group section forever.

put a minimum ilvl requirement for every bracket (like heroic dungeons requiring at least 155) and give it a go. It will be a success in no time.

I don't think it would be that popular simply because such groups will have a huge fail ratio. So people will either abandon or get even more frustrated with the game, than they are now.
And here IMO it's good that blizzard doesn't allow for that.

Besides - from talking about removal of rio we went to talking about adding LFD. Which are separate things, non-exlusive things.

[ellieg]

I don't think it would be that popular simply because such groups will have a huge fail ratio. So people will either abandon or get even more frustrated with the game, than they are now.
And here IMO it's good that blizzard doesn't allow for that

I agree with this. It's gonna lead to "this content is too hard. Blizz needs to nerf. No other queued content is this hard. Wtf blizz"

[erifwodahs]

this is why all elitest addons like .io , logs , weak auras should be removed from game and forcing oher to use them should be followed with permabans.

look at how FF 14 deals with toxic elitest people. they had no problem to get rid of them from their game

all it took was to scare people with permabans.

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this is another ultra toxic element

anyone even mentioning mdi routes and enforcing them on other shoudl be also permabanned.

Lol, I mean seeing 9 year member posting stuff like this xD
FF deals with elitism with providing easy content and elitists are still there, just playing in groups and they don't carry noobs with them.
Might as well remove anything above normal mode too, because I bet it's elitist against you. Also ban guilds who are only recruiting meta classes.

[Aphrel]

Sounds neat, i can pick the best players more easily.

Thing is, as long as there are more supply than demand for dpsers, the low ilvl+rio+non-meta dps is gonna get shafted 100% of the time.

The only way to solve the experience is for blizz to add more fucking tanks and healers. Seriously, we have 4 classes that have nothing but 3 dps specs each to choose from... and given that these classes have so many dps specs between them its quite likely that one or several of them will be among the top preforming specs (read meta), so we are gonna see an even higher representation of these classes than others given the higher ratio of dps/tank in raids.

Another idea would be to start designing raid encounters with 3 or 4 tanks in mind. Contributing to an overall larger part of the playerbase that mains as a tank.

[GnomeEU]

I disagree with +9 being toughest purely because of tanks. 12 or 13 is where tanks can’t really “tank” anymore and must start kiting, which means dps have to take on more responsibility. THAT’S where pug key go to die.

When the tank Is using his CDs fine, the healer is not slow and dps is good you can tank everything that won't one shot the tank. The dungeons have been nerfed enough that tank dmg isn't really the problem anymore.

[procne]

Sounds neat, i can pick the best players more easily.

Thing is, as long as there are more supply than demand for dpsers, the low ilvl+rio+non-meta dps is gonna get shafted 100% of the time.

The only way to solve the experience is for blizz to add more fucking tanks and healers. Seriously, we have 4 classes that have nothing but 3 dps specs each to choose from... and given that these classes have so many dps specs between them its quite likely that one or several of them will be among the top preforming specs (read meta), so we are gonna see an even higher representation of these classes than others given the higher ratio of dps/tank in raids.

Another idea would be to start designing raid encounters with 3 or 4 tanks in mind. Contributing to an overall larger part of the playerbase that mains as a tank.

^ This
Tanks and healers either get no requirements, or have lower requirements than dps. It's much easier to find a group for me as a healer than dps.
But at the same time it's much easier for me to play as dps, than healer, especially in dungeons. If I make a small mistake as a healer people die, and I have more stuff to watch out for. There is no other healer which would take over and save the day in such case. While as dps worst case scenario is my dps will be tad lower, which isn't the end of the world.

I can't imagine how much harder it is for the tanks though, not sure if I will ever be brave enough to tank a high m+

[GnomeEU]

Yeah! They'd just start armorying people instead like we did back before raider.io and decline you based on your inexperience.

Duh, unless Blizzard would restrict its APIs then you could only see if someone did a 15 achievement and maybe number of total runs. Its not like Blizzard couldn't remove raider.Io if they wanted to.

If there are no more statistics how many +17 you finished then no addon or external site could list that.

[procne]

Duh, unless Blizzard would restrict its APIs then you could only see if someone did a 15 achievement and maybe number of total runs. Its not like Blizzard couldn't remove raider.Io if they wanted to

Sure they could, which boils down to what I already said - people simply don't want other people to properly inspect their characters and see their shortcomings. So that they can pretend they are good, and hope to get carried, while they are not good.

And if that happened, and people had no way of vetting pug players - pugging would greatly die down. Because it would be riskier, lower chance of getting a good player, and more time-consuming to do some vetting

[Loveliest]

The only way to solve the experience is for blizz to add more fucking tanks and [...]
Another idea would be to start designing raid encounters with 3 or 4 tanks in mind. Contributing to an overall larger part of the playerbase that mains as a tank

They can add as many reasons for tanks to exist as they want. Ppl will still not tank because of the added responsability and pressure. Nowadays it is so much easier to blame your tank if the key fails. Also most dps (especially those who have never tanked) say that tanking is boring, despite the fact that you do everything a dps does in an M+ and more. The truth is that maybe it is not as fun, but certainly not boring (and the worse your party is, the more you have to do as tank).
Anyway - point is: ppl who want to tank, tank, those who don't- still wont tank.