Flying tricked AGAIN

[Blackmist]

Flying was a mistake.

Now it's time to erase that mistake.

[msdos]

Flying doesn't make or break this game for me, Valheim has zero mounting and I've been thoroughly enjoying that for instance.

What makes or breaks this game for me is garbage class (game) design. If I look at the talent tree and don't go "oooooh!" on every single talent, then it's basically just bad. Why even bother if you aren't implementing something good? The money grubbing is out of control these days.

Also, the game's "economy" is just.... If I don't look at the open world and go, "hm, okay, I see multiple locations along with reasons for me to go to those locations, might even be fun" then what is the point of the open world??
Open world without economy is Grand Theft Auto?? Professions aside, what even is the point of the open world? It's just a platform for world questing it seems. The story immediately moves to a new zone so.... You might as well just have the game be like Mario, with one hub and then levels you travel to.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

True, I totally forgot about those in TBC

Although none come to mind for BfA and WoD.

WoD was the PVP area between the alliance and horde city. The name escapes me. But it's hard to count because WoD, Legion, and BFA went more for the later release of flying. So kind of a different model.

What really is going to be odd/interesting/different thing this go around in SL is going to be the zones not being connected right. So when you switch zones your will have to jump on a flight path to get to that zone. Then you can fly around that zone after you land. Then if you want to go to the next zone again, jump on a FP and go to that zone, then land and get on your flying mount again.

I put that up as the next complaint once it happens more than a zone not being flyable.

[SirCowdog]

TBC as well had it. The zone Sunwell is in was no flying. Of course the starting zones for the new races as well but I won't count them. Really EVERY expansion had zones that flying wasn't allowed.

The context that people seem to forget about that setup is that Flying was available in the launch patch at level cap. The zones without flying were added later, and sometimes maintained relevant throughout an expansions.

Whereas now, flight is withheld until later in the expansion, locked behind a relatively ridiculous laundry list of grindy tasks. This is a completely different feel and dynamic that is more important than most anti-flight people like to admit.

[Glorious Leader]

Imagine compelling content where flying only enhanced it? Bring back the large cliffs, floating island, and the like.
Flying could actually enhance this stagnant magnet ground bullshit.

'Players skip our hard work!!!!" So.. Make sure your amazing work isn't skipped by not making linear ground.

JFC, not hard.

Or better yet make your hardwork actually appealing. Like that's the best part about this is they revealed nobody actually enjoys the content they produce and will blast through it when given the option..

[Ragedaug]

But when someone uses intellectually dishonest memes to illustrate their biased point of view I can't not speak up.

It's completely honest. That's how I feel traveling around the same hills and mobs for the 100th time to do a daily quest. Not a fan of being called a liar though, but I don't suppose you care too much about that.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The context that people seem to forget about that setup is that Flying was available in the launch patch at level cap. The zones without flying were added later, and sometimes maintained relevant throughout an expansions.

Whereas now, flight is withheld until later in the expansion, locked behind a relatively ridiculous laundry list of grindy tasks. This is a completely different feel and dynamic that is more important than most anti-flight people like to admit.

Well that's not always true. Many times they are PVP zones that were very much in the expansions at the start.

I am curious how the non connected zones will impact all of this. Flying in SL is going to be a pretty boxed in experience.

[Ragedaug]

I really can't believe the playerbase has gotten so unbelievably spoiled that navigating the world is declared "unnecessary." Why bother playing an mmo? Just play a lobby game already.

Yeah, like the human race got lazy after the Wright brothers figured out how to fly. No one experiences traveling around the real world as nature intended.

[stormrage666]

It came to my mind some alternative for flying/ground world...

Make it so you don't dismount fly for gather (mining... wte....)... but make flying a 5 min CD (or even 10...)
Make it ground mounts as they are

So... you can fly around, safe and cool... but once you goes to the ground, you can't just get out of combat and fly away like a coward... you mount up and run from the enemy or wtv

[SirCowdog]

Well that's not always true. Many times they are PVP zones that were very much in the expansions at the start.

I am curious how the non connected zones will impact all of this. Flying in SL is going to be a pretty boxed in experience.

Which PVP zones? Wintergrasp? Tol Barad? Those were basically instanced battlegrounds.

But again, the context is super important here: Non-flying zones mixed in with flying zones from the beginning. Instead of an overall message of "F**k you if you want to fly...or in the case of the Maw, use mounts at all."

A more balanced approach would lead to greater player appreciation, and hopefully eventually better overall design and mount mechanics(ground and air).

Instead of making shallow content and forcing players to interact with it by taking away their agency, they should be striving to create deep, layered content that players WANT to interact with. And no...that's not easy. But the alternative is continued stagnation of the open world.

[Frozenbro]

These guys still think they will have flying available everywhere just by paying gold, were you guys afk on retail since WoD or something? cause its getting old.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Which PVP zones? Wintergrasp? Tol Barad? Those were basically instanced battlegrounds.

But again, the context is super important here: Non-flying zones mixed in with flying zones from the beginning. Instead of an overall message of "F**k you if you want to fly...or in the case of the Maw, use mounts at all."

A more balanced approach would lead to greater player appreciation, and hopefully eventually better overall design and mount mechanics(ground and air).

Instead of making shallow content and forcing players to interact with it by taking away their agency, they should be striving to create deep, layered content that players WANT to interact with. And no...that's not easy. But the alternative is continued stagnation of the open world.

I do think the way they design content is pretty poor these days. I mean its like zones that are so densely packed with mobs its insane to imagine a world like that. Then tons of cliffs and pointless mountains.

[Ragedaug]

I do think the way they design content is pretty poor these days. I mean its like zones that are so densely packed with mobs its insane to imagine a world like that. Then tons of cliffs and pointless mountains.

That goes right up there with my primary complaints. If they designed zones like they did in Pandaria and previous to that and there would be less complaining. But as it is, they designed zones that are the most frustrating to traverse via ground travel, and decided to no longer let us fly at the same time. "This will frustrate them, how do we ensure they can't get around it?"

I know this isn't what happened, but sometimes it really feels like Blizzard has trolls in their design meetings saying, "you know what will really piss off the players??", followed by a bunch of giggling.

[Sylv_]

Yea but that requires effort and building a world that takes into account flying and well, blizzard is no longer capable of doing that. they would rather just sell you the flying mounts relevant to the current content and NOT let you actually use them in the current relevant content.

That's my point.
Blizz be ded and lazy.

- - - Updated - - -

Or better yet make your hardwork actually appealing. Like that's the best part about this is they revealed nobody actually enjoys the content they produce and will blast through it when given the option..

People enjoy the content. If the content wasn't 2D magnet terrain and they designed actual 3D content then it would be different.

They created the ability to fly, but never designed content for flying.

[Yorimar]

You're not getting flying at the start, because that trivialises questing and world pvp.

then have it so you cant mount a flying mount when WM is enabled. and how does it trivialise questing? if it matters so much, they wouldnt be flying in the first place

[Argorwal]

I really can't believe the playerbase has gotten so unbelievably spoiled that navigating the world is declared "unnecessary." Why bother playing an mmo? Just play a lobby game already.

It’s kind of funny how it’s changed over the years.

One of WoWs original massive appeals was having this massive seamless world.

Now the world is viewed as an unnecessary time waste for getting to quests and instances.

[SirCowdog]

It’s kind of funny how it’s changed over the years.

One of WoWs original massive appeals was having this massive seamless world.

Now the world is viewed as an unnecessary time waste for getting to quests and instances.

Gosh! It's almost like all tje creativity and wonder has slowly been boiled down to a boring formula that only looks good on paper to fuel engagement, ibstead of being interesting and worth doing!


FFS! This isn't entirely the fault of the players. It's at least as much the fault of blizzard slowly removing anything of value, challenge, or interest from the open world. In favor of tedious, time-consuming garbage.

[Argorwal]

Gosh! It's almost like all tje creativity and wonder has slowly been boiled down to a boring formula that only looks good on paper to fuel engagement, ibstead of being interesting and worth doing!


FFS! This isn't entirely the fault of the players. It's at least as much the fault of blizzard slowly removing anything of value, challenge, or interest from the open world. In favor of tedious, time-consuming garbage.

I’m more of the opinion it has always sucked, especially from playing classic.

It just used to be new, and now it isn’t.

[Kelduril]

then have it so you cant mount a flying mount when WM is enabled. and how does it trivialise questing? if it matters so much, they wouldnt be flying in the first place

Because certain quests require you to get through a bunch of mobs to reach your target?

[Kagthul]

Define need, though.

I need it to have fun in the world, and games should be fun. I can technically play the game without it, but I don't have fun that way, so it doesn't really fufill the purpose of a game then.

Since I like instanced content, I make it work by skipping almost all world content until flying is added, but it has severely diminished my enjoyment of the game compared to earlier expacs with flying at launch, and if I ever quit raiding, I'll have no reason to stick around.

So.. you only ever enjoyed Cataclysm, then?

Because thats literally the only expansion where flying was available from the start (as you could by the Flight Masters License at level 60, which let you fly in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms/Deepholm)

Thats it.

Every other expansion you've had to be at or near the new level cap to buy the flying skill (TBC, LK, Pandaria) or it was locked behind achievements that came later (and in the case of WoD werent planned to come at all - WoD, Legion, BfA, and now Shadowlands).

So... yeah.