Could the World of Warcraft and its characters defeat those of Starcraft and Diablo?

[darkoms]

There was no direct proof either. You know alot of monarchs didn't know all of their direct subordinates name in human history as their empire was too large for example emperor of china all governors were their direct subordinates and emperors didn't know most of them and Chinese empire were much smaller than kaldorei empire was so there is again no direct proof. While we have voice saying he knew about zergs wiping out the xel'naga and that wars Major point was death of amon so in this case its like saying person knows about WW2 but doesn't know about the death of Hitler. Neither were politically thr governors far from the emperor so its a fitting example.

We have metamorphosis having purple hue as well which is spell which literally turned a wlock into a demon so hue doesn't prove anything unless you are claiming they used void to turn themselfs into demons or illidans metamorphosis form. As such hue doesn't prove anything.

As I said it can be interped from sentence aswell while having only the words you have to interpid itself from how the words is written so again you are twisting my argument. You said that the description was accurate which means everyone who summons him are insane if not we must deem the description inaccutate leaving that its a possibility that some of it is true but without further evidence we can't take anything from its description for a fact.

Again no proofs.

You've already used this argument on another thread and screwed up because another person told you that
''Old warlock metamorphosis literally gave warlocks an ability called "Void Ray". Warlocks can use void magic. YOU ARE WRONG.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_Ray_(warlock_ability)''
I think the old metamorphosis meant a combination of Filth and Void, since it had a purple hue and gave this ability (Deals X Shadowflame damage to all enemies in a 20 yard line.).

Sorry what? You are literally telling me that Murmur is a creature of Chaos (that is, one of the demons) because chaos and Chaos are the same (although the word chaos is not on the cosmological map) and because the Murmur is named a creature of chaos in the Codex of Blood? No, seriously, how did you even come up with such a thing? Anyway, I have no idea why you started this whole chaos debate, unless I argue that things in the Blood Code may not be true. I'm telling you that the description of the dungeon says that he can destroy worlds. I wonder if God himself tells you that you are wrong, will you also argue? Seriously, you are ready to say absolutely anything in order not to admit that you do not know something or are wrong about something. This is the most childish behavior I've seen on this forum. Once again, those who summon him are insane. Those who summoned him on that planet were insane because they knew exactly what they summoned him. Teron'gor and the others wanted to summon a demon, they did not even know about the existence of Murmur. You constantly mention that I have to use a translator, but right now I'm explaining to you how logic and English works because you don't have the courage to admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Terongor]

Again no proofs.

You've already used this argument on another thread and screwed up because another person told you that
''Old warlock metamorphosis literally gave warlocks an ability called "Void Ray". Warlocks can use void magic. YOU ARE WRONG.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_Ray_(warlock_ability)''
I think the old metamorphosis meant a combination of Filth and Void, since it had a purple hue and gave this ability (Deals X Shadowflame damage to all enemies in a 20 yard line.).

Sorry what? You are literally telling me that Murmur is a creature of Chaos (that is, one of the demons) because chaos and Chaos are the same (although the word chaos is not on the cosmological map) and because the Murmur is named a creature of chaos in the Codex of Blood? No, seriously, how did you even come up with such a thing? Anyway, I have no idea why you started this whole chaos debate, unless I argue that things in the Blood Code may not be true. I'm telling you that the description of the dungeon says that he can destroy worlds. I wonder if God himself tells you that you are wrong, will you also argue? Seriously, you are ready to say absolutely anything in order not to admit that you do not know something or are wrong about something. This is the most childish behavior I've seen on this forum. Once again, those who summon him are insane. Those who summoned him on that planet were insane because they knew exactly what they summoned him. Teron'gor and the others wanted to summon a demon, they did not even know about the existence of Murmur. You constantly mention that I have to use a translator, but right now I'm explaining to you how logic and English works because you don't have the courage to admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

And by your logic there is no proof azshara knew about Elisande or suramar rebelling.

Void Ray could be same as null Ray what does the spell description say?

So illidan consuming skull of gul'dan which chronicles 3 says is filled with fel gives him void somewhere whats your proof? We have no indication that void can turn a person into a demon and shadowflame has spell which is implosion and says "demonic forces suck all of your wild imps towards the target and then causes them to violently explode" so yeah shadowflame proofs nothing as demonic forces blowing up demons doesn't create void and until you proof there is void in metamorphosis spell turning them into a demon purple hue doesn't prove anything just your theory.

I never said he was created by chaos or fel just that the description links you give me tells me he is and description either imply the people who summoned him are insane or all people who summon him ever on purpose are insane which both are proven to be wrong given that people who summoned him in codex weren't insane nor were the wlocks in auchindon. As such dungeon journal description is shown to be wrong on that case and when debating validity of literature sources if there is Major flaw in the source the source is deemed always inaccurate making it that the description can be deemed inaccurate.

[darkoms]

And by your logic there is no proof azshara knew about Elisande or suramar rebelling.

Void Ray could be same as null Ray what does the spell description say?

So illidan consuming skull of gul'dan which chronicles 3 says is filled with fel gives him void somewhere whats your proof? We have no indication that void can turn a person into a demon and shadowflame has spell which is implosion and says "demonic forces suck all of your wild imps towards the target and then causes them to violently explode" so yeah shadowflame proofs nothing as demonic forces blowing up demons doesn't create void and until you proof there is void in metamorphosis spell turning them into a demon purple hue doesn't prove anything just your theory.

I never said he was created by chaos or fel just that the description links you give me tells me he is and description either imply the people who summoned him are insane or all people who summon him ever on purpose are insane which both are proven to be wrong given that people who summoned him in codex weren't insane nor were the wlocks in auchindon. As such dungeon journal description is shown to be wrong on that case and when debating validity of literature sources if there is Major flaw in the source the source is deemed always inaccurate making it that the description can be deemed inaccurate.

Do they exist? Give them to me.

And so, the beam that deals damage with the Shadowflame has nothing to do with the Void, although you yourself gave a link in which one of the Blizzards said that the Shadowflame is a mixture of Fel and Void?

Is Illidan showing signs of the Void somewhere? Is he purple (I mean, he's purple because he's a Night Elf, but his metamophrphosis is dark green)? Of course, it was only Blizzard who said it was a mixture of Fel and Void. You, as always, know better.

You told me that if he is a Chaos creature, then he must be a Fel creature. "Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy the entire worlds." From codex of blood and by that description it exists only for fel as fel is chaos in warcraft universe and it doesn't show any signs of fel meaning source again is not credible as it makes errors in lore.'' You don't remember what you said a few posts ago, but are trying to argue so that you know the lore? You are (again) entangled in your lies.
How do you know the people who called him in the code were not crazy? Illidan is crazy, that doesn't stop him from doing cool magic. Anyway, I have no idea why you even started this argument. Where is the description of the dungeon shown as incorrect? Because you're so comfortable? Excellent as always. Arguing with you is even more fun than arguing with fans of Arthas or Sylvanas, even they would never say such nonsense.

[Al Gorefiend]

I for one would be amazed to see an expansion with StarCraft's reality crashing into Warcraft's reality like Marvel's battle world story. World of Warcraft: Into the Blizzyverse

[Terongor]

Do they exist? Give them to me.

And so, the beam that deals damage with the Shadowflame has nothing to do with the Void, although you yourself gave a link in which one of the Blizzards said that the Shadowflame is a mixture of Fel and Void?

Is Illidan showing signs of the Void somewhere? Is he purple (I mean, he's purple because he's a Night Elf, but his metamophrphosis is dark green)? Of course, it was only Blizzard who said it was a mixture of Fel and Void. You, as always, know better.

You told me that if he is a Chaos creature, then he must be a Fel creature. "Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy the entire worlds." From codex of blood and by that description it exists only for fel as fel is chaos in warcraft universe and it doesn't show any signs of fel meaning source again is not credible as it makes errors in lore.'' You don't remember what you said a few posts ago, but are trying to argue so that you know the lore? You are (again) entangled in your lies.
How do you know the people who called him in the code were not crazy? Illidan is crazy, that doesn't stop him from doing cool magic. Anyway, I have no idea why you even started this argument. Where is the description of the dungeon shown as incorrect? Because you're so comfortable? Excellent as always. Arguing with you is even more fun than arguing with fans of Arthas or Sylvanas, even they would never say such nonsense.

Give you what?

I gave you a link but as I was pointed out dave kosak said most likely or something towards that and you even agreed with him there but now you are conveniently changing you PoV as it doesn't fit your argument so only way for us to deem what magic it is the spell description.

Illidan showed a purple hue in warcraft 3.

I said he exists only for fel not that he is creature of fel... thats a huge difference....again why are you trying twist my arguments? I do know what I said couple of posts ago while you keep twisting my arguments over and over showing you don't know anything only way for you to argue is twisting your opponents arguments. We don't have any indication of their actions which world make match the definition of "a severely disordered state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder" there is two possiblities in the description amount insane part either referencing to people who summoned him there or all people who knowingly have ever summoned him are insane if it can be proven that both possible implication of it are wrong we can deem the whole description of him in the dungeon journal not trustworthy source. Basics of debate discredit the source.

[darkoms]

Give you what?

I gave you a link but as I was pointed out dave kosak said most likely or something towards that and you even agreed with him there but now you are conveniently changing you PoV as it doesn't fit your argument so only way for us to deem what magic it is the spell description.

Illidan showed a purple hue in warcraft 3.

I said he exists only for fel not that he is creature of fel... thats a huge difference....again why are you trying twist my arguments? I do know what I said couple of posts ago while you keep twisting my arguments over and over showing you don't know anything only way for you to argue is twisting your opponents arguments. We don't have any indication of their actions which world make match the definition of "a severely disordered state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder" there is two possiblities in the description amount insane part either referencing to people who summoned him there or all people who knowingly have ever summoned him are insane if it can be proven that both possible implication of it are wrong we can deem the whole description of him in the dungeon journal not trustworthy source. Basics of debate discredit the source.

Proof that Azshara knew of the rebellion of Suramar and Elisande.

Oh yeah, of course, when Dave Kosak speaks, we probably can't take it at face value. But when Terongor from the forum says that purple and literally the spell Void Ray means nothing, we must believe him. The funny thing is that you argue with the fact that the VOID Ray is not a Void spell, but all your arguments about Setesh are based on the fact that the name of his spells contains the word CHAOS, despite the purple color and the fact that the description of the spells themselves says that he uses the Void.
''Reign of Chaos - Setesh summons small 2 yard radius bubbles of void energy''
Try using less ridiculous arguments. In any case, as I said, it doesn't make sense because the whole controversy began with the fact that the Titan Forged would never use blood magic because it was too dark magic, but now you are proving with incredible tenacity that they can use fel (literally the opposite and deadly force for them). See what the problem is? It's not even that you don't know lore. The point is that you rearrange your arguments when it is convenient for you and as it is convenient for you. You don’t care what to argue about, you just don’t want to admit that you have no idea what you’re talking about and therefore continue this argument and come up with some new things every time.

Where? In RoC he showed a blue tint, in TFT he showed purple because the color of metamorphosis depends on the color of the team. I used to explain to you how lore and magic works, then I explained how English works, then I started explaining to you how logic works, now I have to explain to you how Warcraft 3 works? What else should I explain to you?

What do you mean exists only for Fel? What does this even mean and how am I supposed to understand it? Does he just run around the worlds and spread the Fel? Or gathering Fel? Or throwing fel parties? I'm not trying to distort your arguments, I just thought that because of your dyslexia, you again expressed yourself incorrectly and this was the most logical option, because I had never heard such nonsense as exist for Fel. Once again, you are saying that we cannot believe these two sources (the Code and the description of the dungeon), because it suddenly seemed to you (as if we have a lot of information) that this is not true? As I said, you are trying to expose everything in such a way that it is convenient for you, without giving any proofs.

[Terongor]

Proof that Azshara knew of the rebellion of Suramar and Elisande.

Oh yeah, of course, when Dave Kosak speaks, we probably can't take it at face value. But when Terongor from the forum says that purple and literally the spell Void Ray means nothing, we must believe him. The funny thing is that you argue with the fact that the VOID Ray is not a Void spell, but all your arguments about Setesh are based on the fact that the name of his spells contains the word CHAOS, despite the purple color and the fact that the description of the spells themselves says that he uses the Void.
''Reign of Chaos - Setesh summons small 2 yard radius bubbles of void energy''
Try using less ridiculous arguments. In any case, as I said, it doesn't make sense because the whole controversy began with the fact that the Titan Forged would never use blood magic because it was too dark magic, but now you are proving with incredible tenacity that they can use fel (literally the opposite and deadly force for them). See what the problem is? It's not even that you don't know lore. The point is that you rearrange your arguments when it is convenient for you and as it is convenient for you. You don’t care what to argue about, you just don’t want to admit that you have no idea what you’re talking about and therefore continue this argument and come up with some new things every time.

Where? In RoC he showed a blue tint, in TFT he showed purple because the color of metamorphosis depends on the color of the team. I used to explain to you how lore and magic works, then I explained how English works, then I started explaining to you how logic works, now I have to explain to you how Warcraft 3 works? What else should I explain to you?

What do you mean exists only for Fel? What does this even mean and how am I supposed to understand it? Does he just run around the worlds and spread the Fel? Or gathering Fel? Or throwing fel parties? I'm not trying to distort your arguments, I just thought that because of your dyslexia, you again expressed yourself incorrectly and this was the most logical option, because I had never heard such nonsense as exist for Fel. Once again, you are saying that we cannot believe these two sources (the Code and the description of the dungeon), because it suddenly seemed to you (as if we have a lot of information) that this is not true? As I said, you are trying to expose everything in such a way that it is convenient for you, without giving any proofs.

As I said it was by your logic azshara didn't know about Elisande and the rebellion while there is no mention of it in ingame its so stupid argument to say and seeing you are now using it for me calling your logic out just shows when you said people are calling you out for trolling the reason.

I admit of being wrong already on dave kosak case and purple hue proofs nothing again original warlock metamorphosis and his reign of chaos then use void energy again proofs nothing else. Again thats an old conversation which give no weigh to this while you are now claiming warlock metamorphosis is a void spell.

Yeah I forgot about RoC but we have gul'dan fights last phase with purple hue illidan. You never explained how English worked you kept making mistakes on it like not understanding what synonyms are and calling fel filth.

Exists only for fel. I would say existing only for causing it.
Not its not any strange argument in pop culture we have people saying they exist for their master, ideology etc. Even wc3 accolytes my live for ner'zhul. So existing for magical forces in warcraft universe would be pretty normal. Discrediting sources for having 2 sources which are contraducting is only logical and discrediting only needs only to be pointed out not given any other explanation its normal in debates as it leaves us in a position we can't say more we need more data.

[darkoms]

As I said it was by your logic azshara didn't know about Elisande and the rebellion while there is no mention of it in ingame its so stupid argument to say and seeing you are now using it for me calling your logic out just shows when you said people are calling you out for trolling the reason.

I admit of being wrong already on dave kosak case and purple hue proofs nothing again original warlock metamorphosis and his reign of chaos then use void energy again proofs nothing else. Again thats an old conversation which give no weigh to this while you are now claiming warlock metamorphosis is a void spell.

Yeah I forgot about RoC but we have gul'dan fights last phase with purple hue illidan. You never explained how English worked you kept making mistakes on it like not understanding what synonyms are and calling fel filth.

Exists only for fel. I would say existing only for causing it.
Not its not any strange argument in pop culture we have people saying they exist for their master, ideology etc. Even wc3 accolytes my live for ner'zhul. So existing for magical forces in warcraft universe would be pretty normal. Discrediting sources for having 2 sources which are contraducting is only logical and discrediting only needs only to be pointed out not given any other explanation its normal in debates as it leaves us in a position we can't say more we need more data.

That is, you used some stupid argument, and then you could not give proof and accuse me? Maybe you just need to stop saying something without reason?

Doesn't that prove anything because you said so? Every time I point you to the magic of the Void, you just say that it means nothing, and then say that the only thing we have to believe is your argument that Setesh's spells have the word Chaos in their names and therefore are fel spells.

You mean Illidan possessed by Sargeras? What is it for? Oh, of course, it's me who make mistakes, not you with your strange and unfounded statements.

Well? And how is it that he exists only to cause chaos contradicts what I said about him or some of the information available? Why did you even mention this? Tangled in your lies again? That is, for some reason the SOUND elemental exists for the cosmological force? How does it even work? How can you possibly exist for Fel? Seriously, this is getting funnier every day. Once again, forget the Blood Code. The description of the dungeon says that he is capable of destroying worlds and this is canon, whether you like it or not. There is no conflicting information in the description of the dungeon.

[Terongor]

That is, you used some stupid argument, and then you could not give proof and accuse me? Maybe you just need to stop saying something without reason?

Doesn't that prove anything because you said so? Every time I point you to the magic of the Void, you just say that it means nothing, and then say that the only thing we have to believe is your argument that Setesh's spells have the word Chaos in their names and therefore are fel spells.

You mean Illidan possessed by Sargeras? What is it for? Oh, of course, it's me who make mistakes, not you with your strange and unfounded statements.

Well? And how is it that he exists only to cause chaos contradicts what I said about him or some of the information available? Why did you even mention this? Tangled in your lies again? That is, for some reason the SOUND elemental exists for the cosmological force? How does it even work? How can you possibly exist for Fel? Seriously, this is getting funnier every day. Once again, forget the Blood Code. The description of the dungeon says that he is capable of destroying worlds and this is canon, whether you like it or not. There is no conflicting information in the description of the dungeon.

We have implication and even though implication are not 100% confirmed they have more backing then up than your headcanon like metamorphosis of wlocks coming from void and most theories you have.

Doing shadow damage doesn't prove they are void by that logic all death magic is void.

Again only your headcamon that he is possessed by Sargeras... It would make no sense if he was then possessed by Sargeras for Sargeras to call Sargeras master.

What lies? Existing for magic powers in a universe were the powers are like they are in warcraft universe isn't in any way far fetched. Its pretty easy to understand what that means even. As we have implication that neither warlocks nor the people who summoned him knowingly were insane. We can deem dungeon journal is contradicting the Codex making it not a credible source.

[darkoms]

We have implication and even though implication are not 100% confirmed they have more backing then up than your headcanon like metamorphosis of wlocks coming from void and most theories you have.

Doing shadow damage doesn't prove they are void by that logic all death magic is void.

Again only your headcamon that he is possessed by Sargeras... It would make no sense if he was then possessed by Sargeras for Sargeras to call Sargeras master.

What lies? Existing for magic powers in a universe were the powers are like they are in warcraft universe isn't in any way far fetched. Its pretty easy to understand what that means even. As we have implication that neither warlocks nor the people who summoned him knowingly were insane. We can deem dungeon journal is contradicting the Codex making it not a credible source.

That is, you again did not give proofs and just expose your fantasies as canon? My hedkanon? VOID ray and Shadowflame damage is this my headcanon? Funny

The problem is that there is no separate death magic in the game, there is only shadow magic. However, Death magic usually does not summon Void creatures, have you thought about that? Or are you saying that these guys were summoned by Death? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_Seeker

I know, and this is strange, but we know that GulDan's plan was to infuse the soul of Sargeras into Illidan's body. It is also possible that it is Azzinoth. Your lore knowledge is too small to know such things, and you just accuse me of the Hedkanon.

Because again you said some kind of nonsense about existence for Fel. Once again, which one is the unreliable source? Why do you think the Codex of the Blood is a more reliable source than the description of the dungeon? Forget this code, no matter what it says, think only about the description of the dungeon. We're talking about a dungeon description, and if it's contrary to the Codex, we must believe the dungeon description. You are trying to portray both sources as unreliable because they somehow contradict each other (although in fact they do not contradict, you just pretend that you do not understand what a madman really is so as not to admit that you are again in a puddle), but we can only believe description of the dungeon and it will be canon. Learn to admit defeat.

[TheFirstOnes]

That depends. If the whole "unmake the Warcraft Universe" thing is talking about the Jailer's power alone and him slaying the Arbiter is true, then I'd say that factor alone can dismantle every other Blizzard game's shit with literal ease.

But, if they're saying that as in "Oh yeah, the Jailer's ARMY could unmake the cosmos, if his plan come to fruition", then you can argue for your verses still, but I can debate you on why that's not the case either way.

Seems they're hyping up the Jailer's power alone tho. And we still have to take into account the First Ones. Doubt anyone from Starcraft or Diablo could beat the Void Lords, or the Titans, but they could definitely lose against the First Ones, since they have such a high place in the Cosmic Hierarchy, arguably the highest place tbh.

[Ishayu]

If Azeroth encountered the Golden Armada the Protoss would just go "Fuck this" and smack a planet cracker on the thing, deleting the planet.

GGWP

[TheFirstOnes]

I for one would be amazed to see an expansion with StarCraft's reality crashing into Warcraft's reality like Marvel's battle world story. World of Warcraft: Into the Blizzyverse

We kinda already do. It's called Heroes of the Storm. And if we're using that verse as realistic logic, then Tracer's blasts do NO damage against the Lich King (As shown int the Gul'dan trailer), and Deathwing can literally dismantle every character there (Since he's shown slamming everyone in the trailer). You can easily argue it's more comparable to something akin to DB Heroes, in that it's basically a fanfic, but that's just an assumption. Heroes of the Storm can be argued as a side story, or a secondary canon, since it's about heroes from each verse being summoned to the Nexus to battle against one another. So, it can actually apply.

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If Azeroth encountered the Golden Armada the Protoss would just go "Fuck this" and smack a planet cracker on the thing, deleting the planet.

GGWP

I doubt it's really that simple, nor is that really in character for the Protoss to do. Either way, planet destroyers are nothing new.

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Dont see how they can beat Starcraft.
I mean they can just nuke the planets from orbit and Warcraft has like 1 spaceship? unless the legion will jion the fight but even their spaceships are nothing compaired to the Starcraft fleets.

We also haven't really gotten anything good from the Legion's ships tbh outside of what some books say, or TBC stating dimensional Draenei ships can legit warp Dimensions and Time itself. Hell, Warcraft isn't really good as expressing power in game at all tbh. Sargeras is actually smaller in the Antorus cinematic than he is in almost every other portrayal of him.

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Just started replaying brood war again because why not and protoss are casually killing off planets on the regular. I had forgotten about this

Illidan has been shown countless times over that the Legion in every reality has destroyed every world they walked on. The protoss aren't impressive.

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We have implication and even though implication are not 100% confirmed they have more backing then up than your headcanon like metamorphosis of wlocks coming from void and most theories you have.

Doing shadow damage doesn't prove they are void by that logic all death magic is void.

Again only your headcamon that he is possessed by Sargeras... It would make no sense if he was then possessed by Sargeras for Sargeras to call Sargeras master.

What lies? Existing for magic powers in a universe were the powers are like they are in warcraft universe isn't in any way far fetched. Its pretty easy to understand what that means even. As we have implication that neither warlocks nor the people who summoned him knowingly were insane. We can deem dungeon journal is contradicting the Codex making it not a credible source.

Mind if you and Darkoms give me context on your argument here?

[Chromell]

I always find these discussions both very interesting but also pointless. It's too hard (if not impossible) to compare that when different universes have diverging echelons of power.

[AcidicSyn]

If Azeroth encountered the Golden Armada the Protoss would just go "Fuck this" and smack a planet cracker on the thing, deleting the planet.

GGWP

Basically this.

If the swarm didn't just assimilate everything there are any number of factors that make any force from azeroth or sanctuary a joke.

Amon, Xel'naga Kerrigan, the Golden Armada, fuckin Warfield and the dominion fleet could probably wipe out Azeroth with minimal casualties lol Azeroth would only stand a chance if A- PCs are real, B- they had PLENTY of time to prepare and C- the entire encounter is designed and executed the way a raid is for some reason.

(In fairness this is also based on the rules and scenario outlined by the OP: Azeroth is the battle site, it's being invaded by each universes protagonist and antagonists and being fought specifically by a united Horde and Alliance. So no legion, no shadowlands folks, no void lords, etc. Not having the legion in the fight is already a pretty big handicap for Azeroth.)

[TheFirstOnes]

Basically this.

If the swarm didn't just assimilate everything there are any number of factors that make any force from azeroth or sanctuary a joke.

Amon, Xel'naga Kerrigan, the Golden Armada, fuckin Warfield and the dominion fleet could probably wipe out Azeroth with minimal casualties lol Azeroth would only stand a chance if A- PCs are real, B- they had PLENTY of time to prepare and C- the entire encounter is designed and executed the way a raid is for some reason.

Eh, in Warcraft, we really don't need prep time to destroy world ending threats. Legion, BFA, etc have proven that time and time again. Nothing suggests the Swarm are any tougher than the Old God forces or shit like that. And you're really overhyping Amon. I don't even think he could beat Sargeras tbh. Xel'naga Kerrigan is the strongest in the Verse, I'm pretty certain. And she really has nothing to overpower the Titans, or any of the Cosmic Pantheons, etc. The Dominion Fleet and Warfield are ok arguments, but it's nothing we haven't seen before from the Legion. And I'm not even arguing ship powers here. I'm talking overall armada power.

-"A- PCs are real" We are canon. We're called multiple times in Chronicle as "The Heroes of the Alliance and the Horde", and in game we're called "The Maw Walker, the leader of our class orderhall, the commander of our garrison" and so forth. While your specific character might not be canon (Which is debatable, since each story of Warcraft in game is basically just a retelling of the same timeline through different narrative perspectives), the PC's do exist.

"the entire encounter is designed and executed the way a raid is for some reason."

Raids and the designs of them are only in game rules. Could argue the same thing against Starcraft, and how its level design is.

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And before you say "We had a lot of prep in Legion, and BFA"

No, we didn't. The Legion were straight up bombarding us, and the Artifacts, and shit like that were us attacking them back, which gave us numerous advantages. The only "prep time" we got was with the Vindicaar's creation, or the Dalaran beam weapon. That was it.

And in BFA, our only usage of prep-time was either against the other faction, or when training our minds against N'Zoth's visions in Ny'alotha, which is debatable, since N'Zoth was still attacking us either way.

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A good argument of Prep-time would be more or less something like 4.3, or patch 3.2. In 4.3, we collected the Dragon Soul, and did multiple stuff in preparation for the final battle against Deathwing. And in 3.2, we legit had an entire prep tournament to get ourselves ready for the battle against the Lich King.

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I always find these discussions both very interesting but also pointless. It's too hard (if not impossible) to compare that when different universes have diverging echelons of power.

That in itself doesn't mean we can't debate on which verse has a higher sense of power. A lot of Starcraft's power is moreso on a singular Universe and about Armies and ship power (Except for the Xel'naga, and Amon), while a lot of Diablo and Warcraft's power ranges from armies, to the power of cosmic beings, mortals, etc.

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Power also comes from just how big the verse is aswell. Since Starcraft is mostly about the cycle of a singular Universe (And the Void, kinda), you could argue it loses against Warcraft, which houses infinite Universes, timelines, cosmic realms that scale above the edges of reality, Cosmic Beings that govern the Cosmos and its laws, and so forth. You can argue the only guys that could come close to the Cosmic Pantheons are the Xel'naga and Amon, but I think that in itself can be considered a stretch, but not entirely impossible.

I feel Diablo is a little more comparable to Warcraft kinda.

[Chromell]

That in itself doesn't mean we can't debate on which verse has a higher sense of power. A lot of Starcraft's power is moreso on a singular Universe and about Armies and ship power (Except for the Xel'naga, and Amon), while a lot of Diablo and Warcraft's power ranges from armies, to the power of cosmic beings, mortals, etc.

Power also comes from just how big the verse is aswell. Since Starcraft is mostly about the cycle of a singular Universe (And the Void, kinda), you could argue it loses against Warcraft, which houses infinite Universes, timelines, cosmic realms that scale above the edges of reality, Cosmic Beings that govern the Cosmos and its laws, and so forth. You can argue the only guys that could come close to the Cosmic Pantheons are the Xel'naga and Amon, but I think that in itself can be considered a stretch, but not entirely impossible.

I feel Diablo is a little more comparable to Warcraft kinda.

Don't get me wrong, I do find it very interesting. I just think it's kinda frustrating being unable to get to a real answer without word of god shiming in.

[EntertainmentNihilist]

Pretty sure the seven evils and Archangels of Diablo are nowhere near on the level of the Old Gods, Titans, or maybe even Deathwing. They seem to be more Titan Keeper or Cthraxi tier to me.

As for Starcraft, given it's interstellar scale the numbers are probably a lot bigger. Protoss ships can straight up glass planets, and I doubt much in Warcraft could withstand the Zerg infestation.

That said, I suspect the high-tier beings in Warcraft like Titans and Old Gods would be able to wipe out the Protoss, Zerg, and Terrans. The "gods" of Warcraft are comic-book level high-tier, most settings couldn't deal with them.

[Daffan]

We talking mortal races vs all the starcraft tech? If so Starcraft wins. If we talking Titans, Old Gods. Burning Legion, Void lords etc then Starcraft stands no chance.

Starcraft literally has god of all time in it though... Warcraft rip

[TheFirstOnes]

Starcraft literally has god of all time in it though... Warcraft rip

Are you talking about the Voice in the Darkness? Cause that's...honestly not that powerful? Hell, its existence and behavior is bound by what the galaxy made it to be.

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Or, are you talking about the Xel'naga and the Infinite Cycle? Which then I would argue that in terms of scaling, they would be bound within Warcraft's cosmic chart still, since they originated from the Void (Which is funny, cause Void isn't the highest factor within the Cosmic power of Shadow, it's the layer below pure Shadow), and that they pinned the Universe on an infinite repeat so that they could spread life and influence across the Universe an infinite amount of times, which again is no different than anything in WoW.

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Like, literally, I could just argue that the First Ones could obliterate Starcraft without care, since they architected the framework of the Warcraft Cosmos, and the Framework of the Warcraft cosmos is the Cosmic Chart, with consists of all Cosmic powers, and since the most powerful beings within Starcraft are bound within the cosmic power of Void (If you want, we can debate on the similarities and differences between Warcraft's Void and Starcraft's Void), they're automatically weaker than the First Ones.

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It's also kinda funny, especially considering even if you wanted to use "the infinite cycle", the Infinite Cycle has already been confirmed not to be infinite, and that there was in fact a final cycle, thanks to Amon and co. Pretty sure Kerrigan restarts the cycle when she becomes a Xel'naga, but I'm not fully certain? And unlike WoW, where Cosmic Pantheons are, while needed to keep the balance, not really the end all be all for the Cosmos and its infinite creational laws and all that shit (Hence why Order's influence across the cosmos didn't straight up fucking die when the Titan Pantheon were slain by Sargeras), any cosmic force or law can in fact be affected (If not, straight up stopped) if being such as the Xel'naga or co are defeated.

And if you want to argue the whole "Oh yeah? Well, the Jailer could end everything if he killed the Arbiter", that actually isn't true, since the Jailer needs the keys of each and every Pantheon, and we don't even know what the Jailer plans to do if the Arbiter dies. Hell, the Arbiter is in a fucking coma right now, and the cosmos, as well as the laws of Death and such are still intact, so I doubt the Jailer killing her is the end all be all. Just means that, if the Jailer kills her, he'll be able to overthrow her and find the means necessary to straight up become the cosmic force of Death itself.

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Maybe I'm just downplaying the laws of the Infinite Cycle, if does it even affect multiple Universes? Are there multiple Universes within Starcraft? And if there aren't, then it being merely Universal in scale, and it being bound by physical beings that, if they fall, the Infinite Cycle just straight up dies, then that's not really a good argument against WoW, where in order to stop the First Ones' designs, it legit takes more than just defeating a Cosmic Pantheon. Not to mention there are mentions of infinite Universes, the Multiverse, cosmic laws within all of reality, Cosmic Planes with its own Cosmic Pantheon, etc etc. And these laws can not only be unbound by different cosmic planes (Time is a concept of Order, and it doesn't apply to Death, and therefore the Shadowlands for example), but defeating a Cosmic Pantheon does not mean these Laws die out, or become a limiting factor. Or at least, that's not what's been shown in Warcraft at any point.

Even when the Arbiter got fucked by a coma, there was a drought that caused a bit of havoc within the Shadowlands, but the Purpose and the laws of the Shadowlands were still working just find. Therefore, I would already consider something as unknown as the Purpose already beyond something such as the Infinite Cycle.

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And before you guys mention "Oh, the Purpose is linked with the Arbiter and her infinite wisdom", well, not really. First of all, that's but a belief placed among the people of Oribos, and they're unreliable narrators, and are therefore infallible. But also, like I mentioned above, the Arbiter is in a coma and is therefore unable to function at all (She cannot provide wisdom, she cannot do shit), and yet the Purpose is actually doing just fine. Hell, it's argued that the Purpose is why we're here to begin with. And note that the Arbiter most likely doesn't even know we exist atm, and that's because of her being in a coma.

You could argue that the Purpose would fall if the Arbiter dies, but that's debatable, and more so an assumption, whereas with Starcraft, we actually have evidence showcasing the Infinite Cycle getting fucked by Amon and the Xel'naga getting fucked (Note that the Infinite Cycle still got deleted, even when the remaining Xel'naga went to SLUMBER, meaning even in a state of hibernation, their laws went bye-bye).

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Pretty sure the seven evils and Archangels of Diablo are nowhere near on the level of the Old Gods, Titans, or maybe even Deathwing. They seem to be more Titan Keeper or Cthraxi tier to me.

As for Starcraft, given it's interstellar scale the numbers are probably a lot bigger. Protoss ships can straight up glass planets, and I doubt much in Warcraft could withstand the Zerg infestation.

That said, I suspect the high-tier beings in Warcraft like Titans and Old Gods would be able to wipe out the Protoss, Zerg, and Terrans. The "gods" of Warcraft are comic-book level high-tier, most settings couldn't deal with them.

I've already made comparisons on Warcraft characters and who they represent regarding power. I already mentioned that glassing planets isn't really much of a feat, especially since we're currently facing foes that are Titan Level (Such as Denathrius), since Steve and Blizzard are so inclined now to say that the Pantheon of Death, the Titans, and the other Cosmic Powers are on the same level in terms of hierarchy, which is arguably linked to their power.

And before any of you throw that stupid ass Steve interview with the Winter Queen (Which had him say that she and the Pantheon of Death levels were on the same cosmic hierarchy level as the Titan Keepers), I legit have a Bellular interview with Steve that is not only far more recent, but also has Steve legit comparing the Pantheon of Death and the TITANS (Not the fucking keepers) on the same level of the hierarchy, whereas the First Ones are the level beyond that.

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I'm gonna feel so fucking dumb if what I say about the First Ones is wrong, and that they came after the Warcraft Big Bang. Would make no sense, since the First Ones were stated to be the guys that architected the framework of the Cosmos (Which is legit what the Cosmic Chart is, and the Cosmic Chart consists of Light and Void...the 2 things that made the Big Bang, which means the Big Bang is basically bound to the framework that the First Ones architected), but...whatever.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And if I'm wrong, my brain will pack up its things and leave my head, cause apparently I won't be worthy of even having one. :/