Factional "Never say never" is borderline insulting at this point.

[rogoth]

These laws would only be relevant if Blizzard's policies became truly anti-consumer. (Think things like loot boxes.) The fact that you can't find a group for your Alliance +15 Halls of Attonement does not qualify as anti-consumer. If we were to behold Blizzard to customer satisfaction laws every time somebody in the game had a negative interaction due to some system they developed, they would never leave court. This has nothing to do with US or EU laws and everything to do with common sense. Blizzard, as a developer, owes you nothing, as a consumer.

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"My herd"? I told you in my first post that I don't hate 10M Heroic raiding, I just understand the reasons it doesn't exist and I don't care to wax nostalgic on forums by pretending it was more important to the games' success (because I preferred it) than it was in reality.

i haven't touched the game in over a year, i quit for several reasons, one of them was that i couldn't get a raid group that was clearing stuff as i used to do without faction/realm changing (in terms of in game reasons), i also had the 'real world' reason of having financial pressures causing me to cut unnecessary spending so that's what i did, again my point is that in places where the customer is protected by laws and safeguards blizzard very much owes people something, and nothing at all like your false statement, which is only relevant in the US where these things don't exist.

[huth]

i haven't touched the game in over a year, i quit for several reasons, one of them was that i couldn't get a raid group that was clearing stuff as i used to do without faction/realm changing (in terms of in game reasons), i also had the 'real world' reason of having financial pressures causing me to cut unnecessary spending so that's what i did, again my point is that in places where the customer is protected by laws and safeguards blizzard very much owes people something, and nothing at all like your false statement, which is only relevant in the US where these things don't exist.

You're seriously overestimating those laws and safeguards. Especially since this isn't a situation Blizzard intentionally brought about.

[Kelduril]

The point is, that any time when the faction war became the focus of the story, it was incredibly unpopular

Most people who complained about the war don't even read the quest text. Why should their opinion matter? Who cares if it's unpopular?

If you don't like it leave. Just because some players want WoW to turn into something else doesn't mean it should. It should stay loyal to the identity its writers wrote for it.

GRRM Martin isn't going to make Tyrion grow 1 meter taller and become The Mountain v2 just because fans want it to happen. A story isn't a democracy, you don't get to decide how it goes.

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Calling for citations while spewing a bunch of opinions doused in personal bias with no statistics

I'd tell you look up irony but I doubt you'd be able to do it

while spewing a bunch of opinions

And which might that be?

The current WoW playerbase has thousands of guilds working on Mythic Nathria. It's doing quite fine.

This?

There are TWO THOUSAND WoW guilds which are 6/10M right now. That's a ton.

7% of players have https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...hic-shriekwing

10% of players have Nathria Curve. 13% had G'huun, and we're far from 9.1

So no. Population wise, raids are doing fine.

The factions are the core of WoW's identity

This?

In every Warcraft we saw the Alliance and the Horde fight. In every WoW expansion we saw the Alliance and Horde fight ( except this one but there's still time )

So no, it's not opinions. It's facts.

[Diaphin]

Most people who complained about the war don't even read the quest text. Why should their opinion matter? Who cares if it's unpopular?

If you don't like it leave. Just because some players want WoW to turn into something else doesn't mean it should. It should stay loyal to the identity its writers wrote for it.

GRRM Martin isn't going to make Tyrion grow 1 meter taller and become The Mountain v2 just because fans want it to happen. A story isn't a democracy, you don't get to decide how it goes.

If enough people drop out of the game or pressure the developers on it, they will follow the wims of the playerbase. Because guess what, Blizzard isn't developing this game to tell some fantastical story to tell a story but to generate profits, so they will pander towards the consumerbase.

[huth]

There are TWO THOUSAND WoW guilds which are 6/10M right now. That's a ton.

And what percentage of those is Alliance?

In every Warcraft we saw the Alliance and the Horde fight. In every WoW expansion we saw the Alliance and Horde fight ( except this one but there's still time )

Sure... if they hadn't also cooperated just as many times. Something you conveniently keep ignoring.

You don't have facts on your side, only one-sided opinions.

[Diaphin]

This?

In every Warcraft we saw the Alliance and the Horde fight. In every WoW expansion we saw the Alliance and Horde fight ( except this one but there's still time )

So no, it's not opinions. It's facts.

Warcraft 3 is literally the only game in the franchise anyone realistically played and it is all about the Alliance and the Horde teaming up against a bigger threat. Nearly every single major story line ends up with a neutral faction in the spotlight or alliance and horde banding together.

[rogoth]

You're seriously overestimating those laws and safeguards. Especially since this isn't a situation Blizzard intentionally brought about.

they may not have intentionally caused it to happen, but they sure as hell didn't lift a finger to stop/alter it when it was changed, and like i said due to financial reasons most people can't afford to actually challenge blizzard on their scummy marketing or whatever the case may be to that person for having a poor experience of the product which is pretty much the only reason we don't see many if any legal challenges on such matters, it's also why whenever there is any advertisements for WoW they are vague and non descript to avoid any potential problems in this arena.

[huth]

they may not have intentionally caused it to happen, but they sure as hell didn't lift a finger to stop/alter it when it was changed, and like i said due to financial reasons most people can't afford to actually challenge blizzard on their scummy marketing or whatever the case may be to that person for having a poor experience of the product which is pretty much the only reason we don't see many if any legal challenges on such matters, it's also why whenever there is any advertisements for WoW they are vague and non descript to avoid any potential problems in this arena.

Any legal challenges on this would get laughed out of court. It's perfectly possible to just create a new character on the other faction, which does not incur any charges.

All you're really showing is that you're rather ignorant of how these laws work.

[Kelduril]

Warcraft 3 is literally the only game in the franchise anyone realistically played and it is all about the Alliance and the Horde teaming up against a bigger threat. Nearly every single major story line ends up with a neutral faction in the spotlight or alliance and horde banding together.

And then they go back to fighting each other.

[GringoD]

I'm right, though.

You're just shifting the goalpost whenever one of your talking points threatens to sink, heh

Jaina was not in Kalimdor in an official/Alliance capacity. Which is why her dad comes to take control of her expedition and wages war on the Horde. That's your Alliance.

Does Jaina refer to herself as 'Alliance' in Warcraft 3, at all?

At that point in the story it's implied that the Northern Kingdoms have completely fallen, so she is what's left, even leading other alliance races like dwarves and elves including a mountain king.
I mean you said yourself that the last two missions were examples of Horde and Alliance working together. What changed? That nelfs happen to chime in? Does that suddenly make it the Alliance in your logic?

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And then they go back to fighting each other.

And then they go back to aiding each other. Happens all the time, but we only have one of those phases represented in gameplay. I say it's high time that we get the chance to work together ingame, too.

[Soikona]

Game would be much better with crossplay between faction. Separating friends and family from playing togheter sucks. And imagine the ammount of money they would make from race changes.

I myself would go back to human or void elf in a heartbeat.

It’s why I stay alliance. Just to play Human. The horde factions kinda look odd when it comes to plate armour. Only problem, is that getting CE has been made difficult alongside with high keys!

[Kelduril]

You're just shifting the goalpost whenever one of your talking points threatens to sink, heh



At that point in the story it's implied that the Northern Kingdoms have completely fallen, so she is what's left, even leading other alliance races like dwarves and elves including a mountain king.
I mean you said yourself that the last two missions were examples of Horde and Alliance working together. What changed? That nelfs happen to chime in? Does that suddenly make it the Alliance in your logic?

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And then they go back to aiding each other. Happens all the time, but we only have one of those phases represented in gameplay. I say it's high time that we get the chance to work together ingame, too.

I mean you said yourself that the last two missions were examples of Horde and Alliance working together. What changed? That nelfs happen to chime in? Does that suddenly make it the Alliance in your logic?

Nah I was wrong. It's not the Alliance. It's Jaina's expedition. Jaina holds no position of power within the Alliance, she's not a representative.

And then they go back to aiding each other

Yeah like in WoW where the Warsong have invaded Ashenvale and are waging war against the Night Elves for wood. Such peace, much cooperation.

work together ingame

The Alliance champion assassinated the Zandalari king. The Horde champion helped genocide Teldrassil.

Absolutely not. There's no going back from this.

[BrintoSFJ]

Hate is a very strong word, I play horde but I don't hate the players who play horde. Well I frequently argue with players who play horde but that doesn't mean I hate them.

As for the player base being divided enough to the point where we have faction imbalance, simply check the faction population of servers, try balancing them for those connected realm thing.

[Soikona]

Most people who complained about the war don't even read the quest text. Why should their opinion matter? Who cares if it's unpopular?

If you don't like it leave. Just because some players want WoW to turn into something else doesn't mean it should. It should stay loyal to the identity its writers wrote for it.

GRRM Martin isn't going to make Tyrion grow 1 meter taller and become The Mountain v2 just because fans want it to happen. A story isn't a democracy, you don't get to decide how it goes.

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And which might that be?



This?

There are TWO THOUSAND WoW guilds which are 6/10M right now. That's a ton.

7% of players have https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...hic-shriekwing

10% of players have Nathria Curve. 13% had G'huun, and we're far from 9.1

So no. Population wise, raids are doing fine.



This?

In every Warcraft we saw the Alliance and the Horde fight. In every WoW expansion we saw the Alliance and Horde fight ( except this one but there's still time )

So no, it's not opinions. It's facts.

No one is questioning the population of raids, but the population of alliance. How many of those are alliance? Hell, look at the hall of fame and see how many alliance guilds are in the hall of fame at the time horde got it. I will wait!

Actually, every expansion has been about working together. TBC, we worked together against numerous threats. WOTLK we worked together against arthas. Cata we worked together against deathwing. MoP we had a faction war that lead us to working together against garrosh. WoD we worked together against the iron horde and gul dan. Legion we worked together against the burning legion. BFA we had faction war that eventually we all worked together against an old god. And now SL? No war, and we are working together yet again.

Any time the focus of the story is based around war between the two factions, it was not received well. How can you sit there and actually say we always fight?

[burek]

How can you sit there and actually say we always fight?

I guess easily since it's a troll, probably with a banned main account.

[Ange]

PvE raid and m+ faction balance is pretty easy to achieve, just repeat the reasons why people moved to horde in the first place - buffs.

* allow more loot drops for the underdog, 2x, 4x times, as high as it takes to make it worth for people to switch factions.

* allow the same reason why the horde migration happened, buff racials or the whole faction so massivly that it trivializes content in PvE, make it impactfull enough to offset YEARS of watching this letting it to happen without any balancing changes for the most stupid reasons. ("we dont want to offset HORDE guilds allready farming the content, so no balance so the imbalanced faction dont have to change their FARMING STRATEGY") <== stupid reasons like this was worded for reasons why there was never a real balancing change

We dont need merged factions, just make it worth for people to switch(-back).

Whats the point in PvE balance, when the factions in high end PvE are 40:1 for the horde.

They dont even need any new lines of code, they got allready extra loot drop auras for holidays, they got global aura buffs, everything is in game and allready in use. Turn it on for the ally side for a few months and watch what happens to 40:1.

[ButterBeast]

piss off alliance dog

[Kelduril]

No one is questioning the population of raids, but the population of alliance. How many of those are alliance? Hell, look at the hall of fame and see how many alliance guilds are in the hall of fame at the time horde got it. I will wait!

Actually, every expansion has been about working together. TBC, we worked together against numerous threats. WOTLK we worked together against arthas. Cata we worked together against deathwing. MoP we had a faction war that lead us to working together against garrosh. WoD we worked together against the iron horde and gul dan. Legion we worked together against the burning legion. BFA we had faction war that eventually we all worked together against an old god. And now SL? No war, and we are working together yet again.

Any time the focus of the story is based around war between the two factions, it was not received well. How can you sit there and actually say we always fight?

Just because there are more Horde Mythic guilds doesn't mean there are more Horde in general. Your analogy is like looking at Firefighter gender ratios and concluding that there's more men in the world than women because there's more male firefighters. Or like looking at Argent Dawn where Alliance is 90% of the server and concluding that Alliance outnumbers Horde 9 to 1 on ALL servers.

You didn't for a second stop and think about the possibility of Horde players just being better at the game or more prone towards that particular content.

Actually, every expansion has been about working together. TBC, we worked together against numerous threats. WOTLK we worked together against arthas. Cata we worked together against deathwing. MoP we had a faction war that lead us to working together against garrosh. WoD we worked together against the iron horde and gul dan. Legion we worked together against the burning legion. BFA we had faction war that eventually we all worked together against an old god. And now SL? No war, and we are working together yet again.

In all of those expansions we have directly fought each other. Teaming up for 1 raid then going back to war does not allies make.

[Soikona]

Just because there are more Horde Mythic guilds doesn't mean there are more Horde in general. Your analogy is like looking at Firefighter gender ratios and concluding that there's more men in the world than women because there's more male firefighters. Or like looking at Argent Dawn where Alliance is 90% of the server and concluding that Alliance outnumbers Horde 9 to 1 on ALL servers.

You didn't for a second stop and think about the possibility of Horde players just being better at the game or more prone towards that particular content.



In all of those expansions we have directly fought each other. Teaming up for 1 raid then going back to war does not allies make.

But the problem is not about general population but high end. It was literally discussed at blizzcon and specifically mentioned for high end. So yea, it is relevant.

Fighting has always, and still is, a side of the main plot. If you honestly believe what you are saying then you are purposely being obtuse.

[Gaidax]

I am behind Blizz on this one - basically once you hard merge factions, that's it - it's the end of the road. You can't "unmerge" it - it's a final decision.

Say what you may, but Horde and Alliance are cornerstone of Warcraft and I don't think the gains are worth the losses down the road.