Thrall's panel really shows how out of touch the writer's are with the Horde.

[geco]

ALL elven races feed on magic so they require some kind of source to survive or they become a wretch. Even your vaunted High elves are "addicted", as they too were/are subsiding on the magic of the Sunwell.

The difference is Blood elves turned to consuming Fel as Outland had an abundance of demons, thus their green eyes.

While the adored High elves that were more loyal to the Alliance than their own race, scratched their itch by draining magical objects and items they could get their hands on. Sometimes with quite ill effects: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=27521/...m-and-villainy

In summary. While the rich had mana reserves to continue eating.
The poor had to seek a less moral source of food.

Another good plot to put the Alianz as the bad that Blizzard ignores.

[username993720]

DO NOT.
The Horde has to be wild, aggressive. But not evil. It doesn't make sense that she finds a good side and a bad side. It doesn't make sense that the Horde's goal would be to defeat the Horde.
The Horde has to fight for the Horde and the Alliance for the alliance.
The Horde has to be the good guys in their history. Not the bad guys from her own story.

Besides, there are races of the Alliance that are supposed to be evil. But hey Blizzard at some point in Cata forgot about that.

Aggression and monstrosity are often associated with evilness.
That's what, usually, happens when you put a bunch of loosely-knit races together - they don't get along. That's why we had to take out two corrupted warchiefs. This can be seen by the fact that Undead and Blood elves had neutral reputation with the other Horde races, when they were first added, in contrast with the Alliance races, who all started out with friendly reputation.
They do see themselves as good guys. Even though Grommash drank the Blood of Mannoroth, damned their entire race to slavery, headed the unprovoked attack on Ashenvale in Warcraft III, and in WoD spearheaded the invasion of Azeroth, he was still regarded as a hero, just because he defeated Mannoroth, even though he, pretty much, was the cause for his control over the Orcs.
You can't deny the evilness of the Forsaken, the asshole nature of a Goblin, the warmongering of Orcs and the savagery of trolls.

But, you are right. There are evil Alliance races:
The Dark Iron dwarves have always been antagonists, until their addition.
Worgen were always hostile mobs, up until their addition.
Void elves, i feel, should be evil, as they associate with the Void.

ALL elven races feed on magic so they require some kind of source to survive or they become a wretch. Even your vaunted High elves are "addicted", as they too were/are subsiding on the magic of the Sunwell.

The difference is Blood elves turned to consuming Fel as Outland had an abundance of demons, thus their green eyes.

While the adored High elves that were more loyal to the Alliance than their own race, scratched their itch by draining magical objects and items they could get their hands on. Sometimes with quite ill effects: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=27521/...m-and-villainy

Not quite:
"The high elves of Quel'Danil swore off magic completely, while the high elves of Quel'Lithien opposed mana draining on moral grounds.
A crucial difference between high elves and blood elves is that no high elves have decided to feed their hunger for arcane magic by draining that magic from alternative sources (during the time when the Sunwell was useless)."

So, yes. They were more moral than their Blood elven cousins.

[ashblond]

Too many cooks. And not a single good one :P

Please change your avatar picture. it is too creepy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

In summary. While the rich had mana reserves to continue eating.
The poor had to seek a less moral source of food.

Another good plot to put the Alianz as the bad that Blizzard ignores.

Ya no there is no poor rich dynamic here. These elfs were banished by Lor'themar so they moved to the plague lands and set up a lodge where they were then attacked by the forsaken for Nathanos before eating some evil magic item.

Every thing bad that happens to them is literally on the hordes end it has nothing to do with the alliance.

[Ardenaso]

"The high elves of Quel'Danil swore off magic completely, while the high elves of Quel'Lithien opposed mana draining on moral grounds.
A crucial difference between high elves and blood elves is that no high elves have decided to feed their hunger for arcane magic by draining that magic from alternative sources (during the time when the Sunwell was useless)."

So, yes. They were more moral than their Blood elven cousins.

the High Elves look like they're on a religion that would rather let their kid die and not do blood transfusion just because their religion forbids it. It reeks of self-righteousness

[username993720]

the High Elves look like they're on a religion that would rather let their kid die and not do blood transfusion just because their religion forbids it. It reeks of self-righteousness

That's why they're on the Alliance

[geco]

Aggression and monstrosity are often associated with evilness...

Yes, but it doesn't immediately make you evil.
We could have conflict as the Initiate of Kaldorei and Orcs. Where the Horde is aggressive but not evil.
So the Horde is not going to set Teldrazzil on fire to kill Civilians.
Rather, the Horde can see the Kaldorei as a real threat. The Game shows them as a Royal dawn.
And the Horde when seeing this threat decides to attack.

There the Horde is only attacking to defend their own. They will be monstrous and aggressive. But they are not the wicked. They are only defending their own.

PS: At the same time if it continues to be written that the Alliance is not aggressive. Then the Horde wouldn't have to be either.

Ps2: Besides the Kaldorei are aggressive and not for that they are evil. Because they only attack with a motive.
The Horde should be treated the same.

[Ardenaso]

the Horde is monstrous and aggressive yes, but they didn't have to be evil with that; they were brutal over the Kul Tirans and Daelin but when he is defeated they allowed the Kul Tirans to stand down and they allowed them to leave peacefully

[Flurryfang]

There are no evil factions in WoW.

So whenever you write "evil" next to race, unless you talk about Mogu, then its a false assumption.

There might have been evil races in the past, but the story have slowly made everybody some form of good, especially compared to the big bads of the world.

A shame really.

[geco]

There are no evil factions in WoW.

So whenever you write "evil" next to race, unless you talk about Mogu, then its a false assumption.

There might have been evil races in the past, but the story have slowly made everybody some form of good, especially compared to the big bads of the world.

A shame really.

Until BFA came. And now the Horde is more dangerous than the great universal evils of the WoW universe.

[username993720]

Yes, but it doesn't immediately make you evil.
We could have conflict as the Initiate of Kaldorei and Orcs. Where the Horde is aggressive but not evil.
So the Horde is not going to set Teldrazzil on fire to kill Civilians.
Rather, the Horde can see the Kaldorei as a real threat. The Game shows them as a Royal dawn.
And the Horde when seeing this threat decides to attack.

There the Horde is only attacking to defend their own. They will be monstrous and aggressive. But they are not the wicked. They are only defending their own.

PS: At the same time if it continues to be written that the Alliance is not aggressive. Then the Horde wouldn't have to be either.

Ps2: Besides the Kaldorei are aggressive and not for that they are evil. Because they only attack with a motive.
The Horde should be treated the same.

Couldn't quite comprehend.
Are you suggesting alternative story directions for the Horde?

[Flurryfang]

Until BFA came. And now the Horde is more dangerous than the great universal evils of the WoW universe.

And then Sylvanas got deposed and everything is back to what it was.

Thats the trouble about it. The Horde did not become evil, it just had an evil leader, so when she is gone, its all back to peace and love.

[geco]

Couldn't quite comprehend.
Are you suggesting alternative story directions for the Horde?

Yep. Also known as the Vanilla or W3 version.

And then Sylvanas got deposed and everything is back to what it was.

Thats the trouble about it. The Horde did not become evil, it just had an evil leader, so when she is gone, its all back to peace and love.

The Horde followed twice.
Sylvanas alone is a dangerous little enemy. Sylvanas with the Horde is the enemy that does damage.
Shadowland will pass and Sylvanas will have dealt 0 damage to Azeroth. At best he kills Anduin.

Besides, the Horde always knew that Sylvanas was evil and even so they followed her without question.
In fact, today they do not question why they followed Sylvanas or feel bad about the "bad things they did".

[Ardenaso]

oh yes I hope Sylvanas kills Anduin

[username993720]

Yep. Also known as the Vanilla or W3 version.

In Vanilla, the Horde was invading Ashenvale for resources.
In Warcraft III, they invaded the land for resources and to kill Cenarius.
Wouldn't call it a defensive approach.

[Flurryfang]

Yep. Also known as the Vanilla or W3 version.



The Horde followed twice.
Sylvanas alone is a dangerous little enemy. Sylvanas with the Horde is the enemy that does damage.
Shadowland will pass and Sylvanas will have dealt 0 damage to Azeroth. At best he kills Anduin.

Besides, the Horde always knew that Sylvanas was evil and even so they followed her without question.
In fact, today they do not question why they followed Sylvanas or feel bad about the "bad things they did".

Thats the problem everytime that the Horde have been portrayed as "evil", they had a front figure to put all the evil onto, and as soon as the leaders are deposed, the Horde turns into a flower loving nation of people, who just want to live that good, peaceful life :O

Im not saying, that its not odd that the Horde seem to lean towards evil leaders or alteast let them take over, but Blizzard makes it quite clear, that the Horde throws them out because they don't want to be bad.

[Syegfryed]

Tell me where you read it. In the same Chronicles it does not clarify why the Kaldorei joined the Alliance.

it must be ebcause both like blue then.

It was not because they cut down trees and invaded their territory.

one of the reasons yes still is xenophobia.

I am comparing killing living beings with killing living beings.

is a false equivalence, plants and animals.

And it wasn't just trees. There were spirits around them, spirits with a face that the Orcs simply killed them.

False

There were trees that moved with faces and hands that the orcs simply killed.

Nope, they were just chopping trees and they said "these brutes" have no respect for life, spirits are not alive, so it was not their concern, seems fine that you acuse me of making things up and made this up.

Go to any private property, cut in a tree and you may get shot.

any private property SAYS they are a private property and have delimitations to show they own the area

night elves don't have have it.

they purposely made themselves NOT KNOW.

again, false equivalence

The funny thing is, the Orcs didn't know. So it's a Griss Conflict ... which Blizzar can't write anymore.

they didn't know because the night elves made sure that no one, not even taurens, knew, they would bitch about TREES in that place

and you usually shot WARNING, before start killing poeple, again, hypocrite that you are killing living beings

It's very important. Because your goal is to kill the opposing side. Not that Blizzard makes you waste time with people you don't even know who they are.

they were literally helping the war effort against the alliance helping and providing resources for the enemy.

how killing then is wasting time? ROFL

In the original version of the night war, he comes across a Horde encampment and instead of killing them he pretrifies them. (Besides, it's good it doesn't hurt Nathanos.)

never heard about any petrification, neither that tyrande forgave the horde in that instance

The one who mixes is you. It confuses what a Horde Player is. With what they show what the Horde is. Blizzard has the final word.

and blizzard final word is that the horde isn't evil, so either way you are just wrong and this should not even be discussed anymore.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

the High Elves look like they're on a religion that would rather let their kid die and not do blood transfusion just because their religion forbids it. It reeks of self-righteousness

The high elfs were fine the blood elfs became fel crack whores and pushed there drug use onto there kids. It’s pretty safe to say the high elfs made the right choice.

[Le Conceptuel]

The high elfs were fine the blood elfs became fel crack whores and pushed there drug use onto there kids. It’s pretty safe to say the high elfs made the right choice.

That's a kekworthy take ngl

You can tell who's made the right choice because the High Elves have the functioning city, well-established government with one of the last competent people on Azeroth at the head, and the gradual resurrection of their civilization.

[geco]

Thats the problem everytime that the Horde have been portrayed as "evil", they had a front figure to put all the evil onto, and as soon as the leaders are deposed, the Horde turns into a flower loving nation of people, who just want to live that good, peaceful life :O

Im not saying, that its not odd that the Horde seem to lean towards evil leaders or alteast let them take over, but Blizzard makes it quite clear, that the Horde throws them out because they don't want to be bad.

Yes, but when it is so clear that the leader is bad.
The message is more like "we revealed ourselves why we were going to lose".
Every time you have historai of the Horde it is to fight against the Horde.

it must be ebcause both like blue then.

The thing is, we don't know if the Orcs started the conflict and the Kaldorei joined the alliance. Or if the Kaldorei joined the Alliance and that started the conflict.

one of the reasons yes still is xenophobia.

They are no more xenophobic than any race being invaded by an army.

False

Nope, they were just chopping trees and they said "these brutes" have no respect for life, spirits are not alive, so it was not their concern, seems fine that you acuse me of making things up and made this up.

You didn't play W3 did you? The Wisp are dead Kaldorei. There is no logic to "Don't defend them." You can only see the point of view of the orcs.

any private property SAYS they are a private property and have delimitations to show they own the area

night elves don't have have it.

they purposely made themselves NOT KNOW.

again, false equivalence

The Frontier poster was not yet invented in Azeroth and I am sure that all the races of Azeroth that lived in the area knew that these were Kaldorei forests.

Besides, there were literally Kaldorei ghosts in the forest line.

they didn't know because the night elves made sure that no one, not even taurens, knew, they would bitch about TREES in that place

and you usually shot WARNING, before start killing poeple, again, hypocrite that you are killing living beings

There is something you don't understand. The Kaldorei do not defend LIFE. The Kaldorei defend their forests.
And by the way, the Tauren knew that they are Kaldoeri forests because they asked them to pass once and the Kaldoeri said no.

they were literally helping the war effort against the alliance helping and providing resources for the enemy.

how killing then is wasting time? ROFL

In the way that they propose to do an extermination of that race. But not of any race of the Horde yes.
If we were already planning to do an extermination of various Horde roots it would make sense.

never heard about any petrification, neither that tyrande forgave the horde in that instance

Be thankful you didn't see the Beta, the night war was painfully stupid.
Now she's just stupid.

and blizzard final word is that the horde isn't evil, so either way you are just wrong and this should not even be discussed anymore.

Yes, but we have the debate between what Blizzard says and what Blizzard does.
Blizzard says they are not evil. But they act wicked.

I emphasize they should not be evil. But Blizzard makes them act like one.

And if we have a "not evil they are just going to follow any evil leader they find and commit genocide" well that lets them see as something that should be eliminated. Like a group of rabid wolves. They are not bad but they are a danger.