ION Answers the "Farming Legion Raids" in Shadowlands Question

[C20]

What is the problem? I could solo every Legion raid easily post squish lvl 50 on pre patch, at lvl 60 they are even more easy. You literally can't die.

"the route of certain old raids are very complicated" once you learn the routes it's not complicated anymore.

One exception to this is the Coven of Shivarra mythic in Antorus (purely because the damage reduction buff they gain, and the increased HP). Some classes could manage it (e.g. locks and hunters), but most classes had a difficult time separating them for long enough to get significant damage off. High Botanist in Nighthold can also be a major pain to deal with due to the mechanics, but it's absolutely possible to burn them down before the debuff 1-shots.

I'd say that navigating parts of Antorus can be a bit confusing at times, but it's definitely not something I'd ask them to change. They can easily change balance for player that have outleveled the content, whereas changing the instance geometry requires huge resources (significantly more than the time it would take for someone to learn the routes).

[Lucetia]

Ya this is complete crap theyre just too lazy to do anything about it, I was legit soloing legion mythics at the end of bfa so how is it that were now weaker. Its always been at the end of one expansion they are barely soloable maybe on just heroic/normal cause of group scaling being locked in mythic then you hit 2 expansions in and it was normally easy to solo its been like this for as long as I can remember.

You were only solo'ing them because of how overpowered Corruptions were and stat scaling. You are weaker now because you don't have +50-75% to each secondary stat that you use to. Which is common sense.

You last two sentences even confirm what Ion said. At the end it might be "barely" soloable. But then 2 expansion in it's "easy to solo" which fits the "Fairly easy" he gives.

[Smallfruitbat]

It's a bit harsh calling it a lazy response.

However, historically Blizzard have allowed us to solo old raids less than 2 expacs ago. -People are pointing out soloing HFC in Legion -I certainly was until the stat squish. Personally, when I'm pretty much done with current content I like to trawl around old raids and collect transmog. It's not hurting anyone and it keeps me in game. The wait til the end of Shadowlands so you can farm Legion seems a bit harsh. Me collecting a few old tier sets (including for lowbie alts) doesn't take anything away from anyone. I have zero interest in running a group for it and trying to herd cats. There is always someone who gets lost in the instance or an over eager player who rushes in and pulls the boss before everyone else gets there. -That is not fun. Nor is spending time in LFG because people aren't interested.

[Jervaise]

Would you like them to automatically clear old raids and send you transmogs as well? How much easier can it get?

[Smallfruitbat]

This does not mean "historically" that Blizzard has done this. Soloing Vanilla raids was very difficult in BC, it didn't become commonplace until Wrath. BC raids were difficult to solo in Wrath, but doable in Cata. Wrath raids were difficult to solo in Cata, but easy in MoP, and Cata raids were difficult to solo in MoP, but easy in WoD.

In fact, "historically" speaking, Blizzard has stuck to exactly what they said - Late-game two expansions later is when they plan for old raids to become doable solo. This is true still. If anything the outliers are Legion/BfA, and that's not hard to understand given all the player power they had to scale back after those expansions finished.

I think our experiences and expectations differ somewhat.

The point I was trying to make is that me farming transmogs from old raids has zero impact on other players, I really don't see the need to make it difficult. I might be mis-remembering but did Blizzard not put in a bonus to the damage done to bosses from 2 expacs ago. I'm fairly sure that's how they handled the stat squish.

Regardless, I don't think it's right to call Blizzard lazy for not making a change. I do however think its short-sighted on their behalf, it's something that keeps some players in game.

[Fistfighter]

Blizzard STRONGLY underestimates just how much of their playerbase are the collectors

[Dug]

Blizzard STRONGLY underestimates just how much of their playerbase are the collectors

No I think they know exactly how popular it is and that's why they're being stubborn on this. Just more player retention bullshit to stretch out content and keep people subbed. Obviously the problem is the lvl squish broke things with legacy scaling but it can't be that hard a fix.. but if people will stick around until they can brute force it with better gear it's a win win for Blizzard. No dev time towards fixing the problem and more $$

[Captain Proton]

Blizzard STRONGLY underestimates just how much of their playerbase are the collectors

Are you sure about that? Blizzard has data to go off of while you're making baseless claims.

[NatePsy]

I wouldn't have had an issue with it if he didn't flat out lie and say their principle was "By the end of the expansion you should be able to farm raids from two expansions ago" because that's bullshit and I know this because back in BFA I was solo'ing Mythic Hellfire Citadel well before the end of BFA and it had that huge damage multiplier (This was well before Corruptions too, fyi). Fast-forward to Shadowlands and there is no such damage multiplier in Legion raids even comparable to the multiplier I had when doing WoD's Mythic Hellfire in BFA. They fucked the scaling with the squish and now they're following this recently made up principle of "End of expansion you can solo raids from two expacs ago." to save face for their own screw up with the scaling.

It's either a bold-faced lie or Ion is that out of touch with how it worked.

[Dalheim]

Not really sure how this is a bad answer. This has always been true. Majority of the player base won't be able to farm 2 expansion old content until towards the end. There are exceptions where some will be able to solo it sooner like in the past; particularly tanks. He also mentions the keyword "fairly easily". Which means you can do it sooner, but you might be tight on timers, dps checks, etc. Just at the end you should be able to go in and roflstomp it.

Well, the thing is that you could solo Legion raids in BFA - and now we've lost our ability to solo some of them.

[Lucetia]

Well, the thing is that you could solo Legion raids in BFA - and now we've lost our ability to solo some of them.

Well you couldn't solo all of them, but most sure. It's not that you "lost" the ability per say. It's that you lost the "power of two expansions" essentially. Corruptions were massively overpowered in terms of older content and it was essentially of having the power we would have now with stats and stuff. Even then you can still solo a good chunk of Legion's.

Some classes were at 50%+ on different stat weights (or multiple) which makes a huge difference with power. Typically at the end of an expansion we are around ~30% in multiple categories. Then you have the beginning of the expansion power drain we suffer to balance things back out. Current content would put us around the power levels we would be at in 8.3 if we didn't have corruptions. People were just so used to corruptions, despite hating everything else about them, that they felt that should be norm in different areas of the game.

[Zyrinx]

Lot of non collectors in this thread.

No one groups for mount farming old content. No one.

The key is, pre squish, you never had to. Now it's harder. I'm pretty sure that was not the intent, but the answer disingenuously suggests it is.

It's like he's magically added en entire expansion worth of wait for farm content because scaling wasn't implemented properly.

That's how I see it anyways.

[NatePsy]

Lot of non collectors in this thread.

No one groups for mount farming old content. No one.

The key is, pre squish, you never had to. Now it's harder. I'm pretty sure that was not the intent, but the answer disingenuously suggests it is.

It's like he's magically added en entire expansion worth of wait for farm content because scaling wasn't implemented properly.

That's how I see it anyways.

That's exactly how it is. I know for a fact in BFA pre-corruption Mythic Hellfire was soloable AND had a huge damage multiplier that made bosses practically fall over after a few hits, that should be the case for Legion right now in Shadowlands but it isn't because they messed up the system somewhere along the way and are now taking on this new principle of "End of expansion you can solo raids two expacs ago."

It's absolute crap to cover up their own laziness to fix it. These guys are a billion dollar company for a reason, make the most profit with as little effort possible.

[Steelangel]

Even at the end of BfA, Mythic Kil'Jaeden was not soloable (or even duo-able). You needed a lot of folks to keep up with the soaks and the darkness mechanics could still wipe the party.

Has that changed?

[Lucetia]

Lot of non collectors in this thread.

No one groups for mount farming old content. No one.

This is not true at all. I know a ton of hardcore collectors who form groups, especially for expansion old content to farm mounts. The reason is other people being there doesn't affect your drop chance at all. In some cases you can trade the mount, or was possible in some scenarios. I knew this guy who would form a raid for Rukmar (the Spires world boss that I can't remember exactly) on multiple toons each week. Every time he formed the raid he offered X amount of gold to anyone who got the mount to drop and traded it to him. Think they did fix it though so it's not tradeable, but don't quote me on that.

The key is, pre squish, you never had to. Now it's harder. I'm pretty sure that was not the intent, but the answer disingenuously suggests it is.

That's not the key and people are focusing on it wrong. The thing is you could solo it during the "corruption era". Most couldn't before or after. People underestimate how overpowered corruptions were in every aspect of the game outside current content.

It's like he's magically added en entire expansion worth of wait for farm content because scaling wasn't implemented properly.

That's how I see it anyways.

Then you are seeing it wrong. This scenario has always been the case. People were spoiled by corruptions and assumed it was normal with how "easy" things were falling over. We've always had to wait at least two expansions for things to easily fall over. You could always solo it prior to expansions but it was challenging for most.

That's exactly how it is. I know for a fact in BFA pre-corruption Mythic Hellfire was soloable AND had a huge damage multiplier that made bosses practically fall over after a few hits, that should be the case for Legion right now in Shadowlands but it isn't because they messed up the system somewhere along the way and are now taking on this new principle of "End of expansion you can solo raids two expacs ago."

It's absolute crap to cover up their own laziness to fix it. These guys are a billion dollar company for a reason, make the most profit with as little effort possible.

Your statement contradicts itself. Mythic Hellfire pre-corruption was roughly 2 expansions past its content date thus fitting Ion's comment. By your own comment that would mean Legion should be more easily doable prior to the last content patch.

[Queen of Hamsters]

"Lazy" is such an overused word.

I disagree wholeheartedly with his answer and their philosophy that it should only become easier at the end, but "lazy" would've been to just not respond at all.

[kranur]

Soloing old raids has been a consequence of power increases over the course of expansions and not a feature of the game.
They have no obligation to change the group content so your lazy and greedy ass can do it without the need of additional players.

Be glad that they're at least doing tweaks that allow certain bosses to be soloed without the need of a group.

[Nnyco]

Bohoo cant solo play in a mmo.

[Tantypops]

Soloing old raids has been a consequence of power increases over the course of expansions and not a feature of the game.
They have no obligation to change the group content so your lazy and greedy ass can do it without the need of additional players.

Be glad that they're at least doing tweaks that allow certain bosses to be soloed without the need of a group.

I wonder how many "lazy and greedy" subscribers you need so that the game can still function for CE raiders and Glad PvPers. You do realize without casual gamers WoW will not be able to sustain itself, right? Either way, expecting to solo content from FIVE years ago is only natural.

The actual matter here is that their stance has changed and instead of admitting as such Ion is blatantly lying. Previously it went as "content from expansions before the last should be trivial". Meaning during MoP you could easily solo WotLK, and during WoD you could easily solo Cata content. Now, they are saying that we need to wait for THREE expansions instead. Bit by bit, with moves like this and general reduction in quality and quantity of content, WoW will lose the casual players. Then you may raid with the remaining 1000 people.

[Samuraijake]

seems like ppl are always trying to find something to complain about. and then justify their own misery they created for themselves.