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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    but we should increase hit, bcs most criticism (at leat on this forum) is miss
    Hit is no longer a stat.
    Every criticism is a hit, these days.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    This was the first expansion in a long time where I can recall certain dungeons being off limits until you reached a certain place in the game. In BC, you could not run most of the stuff in Netherstorm until you could afford flying. We only saw four of the multiple dungeons available in this expac and had to hit level cap just to unlock them. I feel as though there is plenty of gating, but those restraints could be lifted and the system tweaked a bit to make it feel more like a journey and less like a task. One of the things BFA actually did well, was the way they wrapped the zone stories into the dungeons and made the Siege of Boralus the wrap up to the low level content. Where I feel we could do better is loot drops and I would almost love to do away with random loot from dungeon bosses and return to the tokens of Wrath where upgrades and improvements came from a better level of RNG.
    Locking things behind 10 hours of leveling isn't much of a locking. I think you are going in the wrong direction. Killing a dragon and getting its sword is a lot more fun than killing a dragon and getting 10 coupons toward a sword. Handing you all content immediately when you hit max level prevents it from feeling like a journey.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    You're again pushing a false narrative.
    The fact that you believe I am pushing a narrative and blaming players and not Blizz shows you have not been following this conversation closely. Blizz has made more mistakes than I could count. MoP had a couple of redeeming qualities, otherwise it was not a great expac. WoD tried to be innovative, but Garrisonville and time jumping into an alternate universe was just bad lore. Legion had promise with some great zones but once again tried to capture the majesty of TBC in a similar way to how WoD failed. BFA should have been the apology letter for Legion, but was more of the same.

    When I ask if we are being overly critical, I am asking are we hammering too hard, or not hard enough, and when doing so, are we criticizing the things that makes sense, or senselessly nitpicking immaterial cosmetics? Or is it a combination of all of it and we are just used to seeing salty and toxic individuals at the forefront of what should be very legitimate complaints gone poorly? I am not defending Blizz, but by proxy cannot also defend the players. It is not an "us or them" orcs vs. humans kinda thing. This is about real people, with real concerns who offer their opinions in a poor manner and a company who does a poor job of listening more closely. Would more definitive and critical criticism with some level of solution get more results?

    Also, when you have to go after the person, and not the topic, it tends to show very weak positioning. I am all for a healthy debate, but have no interest in engaging in a discussion where very unsubstantative accusations are levied.
    “Be the change you want to see in the world.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrieus View Post
    So you want to just teleport where you want to be and not travel to get there at all?

    This sort of logic is the reason the game is getting worse not better, the gotta go fast mentality.
    No. I liked the no fly areas in MoP. I have no issue leveling on the ground. But the flight times between continents in Shadowlands is absurd. So is the terrain design, which is just "out to get you". Flightmasters whistle, why not. We had it for two expansions. Why remove it now.

    Not being able to use your mount in the Maw? What kind of bs is this. I've made a point to only do the absolute necessary in Shadowlands so far.
    I had lots of fun exploring MoP or other xpacs on ground mount, just for the sake of exploring, looking at the scenery, but this is obnoxious.


  5. #285
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    It's no secret who supports Blizz and who crucifies them with every, single decision; however, I have to wonder...

    have we become overcritical of a 15 year old MMO that continues to get updates? Ultima Online, EverQuest and World of Warcraft have been around for a long while and still have a large and dedicated fanbase, yet other MMOs like Aion, LotRO, Warhammer, Age of Conan, and even Guild Wars 2 all set out to dethrone the long standing favorites and eventually faded into nothingness. What do you suppose prevents some players from just being excited to still have new content and millions of other players?
    $15 / mo and $40-$60 expansions. That's the big difference.

    Blizz has always answered the $15/mo fee as them providing superior support and additional content far above others. That is obviously not true anymore. They are just charging those fees because too many people aren't critical enough.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I would have to disagree. A few years ago, I remember discussing this in another forum and someone shared this link about criticism with me and ever since I have to wonder if the person offering the criticism is doing so constructively. Sometimes when I read through the comments, I often see items from the past being thrown back into the argument rather than addressing the need on its merit and offering a solution, rather than a problem. I am certainly a fan of "constructive" feedback, I just feel like most people miss the mark when they think they are being the right type of critical.
    Alot of those complaining cant be bothered with those questions, I'd even go so far as they dont know, nor care about the questions. They complain just to complain.

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  7. #287
    We? as the players who also visits sites like MMO C and write on forums? Maybe, but some of it has been justified as we have seen of Blizzards reaction on many things.

    Now, most people dont visit sites like MMO C or any other. They buy xpacs, subs and unsub as they see fit. It seems like ALOT of people still do enjoy playing retail wow.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Alot of those complaining cant be bothered with those questions, I'd even go so far as they dont know, nor care about the questions. They complain just to complain.
    This is part of the issue - we are all aware of it, and Devs are aware of it - the level of dishonesty can be quite mind blowing. Someone spent page after page after page arguing that the loot system was broken, because no matter how many dozens of M+ they did, no matter how many raids they full cleared, they were stuck at 190 ilvl. This went on for pages, they were 100% committed to their story that they were stuck at 190 ilvl, because the loot system is broken. They even went so far as to provide an armory link, and sure enough, 190 ilvl.

    One slight issue - it allowed someone to find their Raid.io, which showed they had completed multiple M+ with an ilvl around 215-220 (i dont remember the exact number). What this means, is that this person fabricated an entire story about being stuck at 190 ilvl, loaded their character, swapped out their gear to get a lower ilvl to reflect their complaint, and continued to argue for a couple of days about how the loot system is broken, before finally being caught in their web of lies.

    So couple of interesting things here - A) their level of commitment to a lie is astonishing, and B) Their complaint was, ironically, not misguided - but their lie actually HURT the argument that the loot system was in need of adjusting. We all know the loot was adjusted, so the end result was good/bad (depending on your opinion).
    Last edited by arkanon; 2021-02-25 at 09:34 PM.

  9. #289
    Hiya,

    I am of the train of thought that largely the WoW community is not overly critical. Surely it does come across that way based on chats and forum threads. I believe that being critical leads to needed improvements in-game.

    Someone on the first page’s iteration and way of answering the question had be thinking: wow he or she is absolutely correct.

    Also a definition or example of overly critical behavior in the community would help out very much in a more refined answer from me. I am sure that among the many pages there are examples. I am just lazy and wanted to throw my two cents in.

    With love,


    Mapdap
    xx

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Have We Become Overly Critical?
    Nope. We humans have always been overly critical.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Nope. We humans have always been overly critical.
    Neighbor's rock STUPID, my rock is best rock. Ug Ug.

  12. #292
    I think most people are over informed and it leads to people believing they are experts. Which leads to people being way over critical. Because they aren't half the experts they (we) think they (we) are.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I believe that it is up to the criticized to make criticism constructive, not the criticizer.
    You are going to have explain that in more detail. How can the criticized make the criticism more constructive when they are receiver.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    No. Remaining critical is how you get improvements made.
    Being reasonably critical, yes. Being overly critical gets your feedback ignored.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    It's no secret who supports Blizz and who crucifies them with every, single decision; however, I have to wonder...

    have we become overcritical of a 15 year old MMO that continues to get updates? Ultima Online, EverQuest and World of Warcraft have been around for a long while and still have a large and dedicated fanbase, yet other MMOs like Aion, LotRO, Warhammer, Age of Conan, and even Guild Wars 2 all set out to dethrone the long standing favorites and eventually faded into nothingness. What do you suppose prevents some players from just being excited to still have new content and millions of other players?
    Maybe we have become too critical sometimes for sure, but that doesn't negate the fact that expansions differ greatly in quality and the amount of content they ship with. It doesn't negate the fact that WoW is MILES behind most MMO's with character customisation, and it doesn't negate the fact that Blizzard would favor any engagement over none at all.
    Last edited by Heavens Night; 2021-02-25 at 10:22 PM.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    You are going to have explain that in more detail. How can the criticized make the criticism more constructive when they are receiver.
    Because the only person in control of one's action is one's self. The only person able to construct anything is the person being criticized. Regardless of what the criticism is, if someone criticizes you, you are always in control of how you view that criticism.

  17. #297
    This is a complicated one to answer, what I can say is that blizzards stubbornness has gotten them strong criticism, all their decisions often disregarded the player feedback until it was too large to ignore, is it too much? Not really when the company refuse to listen so the only option left fir then is to up the intensity till they actually get something done. Were some of it overblown? Yes some criticism made no sense but in the long run they were less important than the ones pertaining to the core game such as their colossal mistakes made in bfa.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    $15 / mo and $40-$60 expansions. That's the big difference.

    Blizz has always answered the $15/mo fee as them providing superior support and additional content far above others. That is obviously not true anymore. They are just charging those fees because too many people aren't critical enough.
    I'm going to say something controversial, but I feel like it needs to be said. $15 a month is what, 50 cents a day. $40 once every two years is 5.5 cents a day. Most of us probably spend far more than that on far more useless crap everyday. Hell, before they shut down it would cost what, $40 to see a movie for 2 hours if you're going with your significant other. We should all fear the day WoW goes free to play. There's enough of that garbage out there.

    I spent a decent amount of time between WotLK and BfA looking for alternatives, and none of them have the quality and polish that WoW has. Anyone is free to go play some of the other MMOs out there, but they're all crap. WoW is Blizzard's cash cow, it doesn't just support WoW, but all of Blizzard at this point. It's always ok to criticize Blizzard and their products, we have the right to, but if it isn't funneled into something constructive it will just take longer for the changes to come as Blizzard now has to sift through all the garbage first.
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  19. #299
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post

    So yeah, whilst other MMORPGs do several things right, they do a whole lot wrong too. That just seems to get lost in translation, or maybe the people hailing them haven't actually PLAYED them... Wouldn't surprise me. <.<
    Or they prioritize other things? I'm not a hardcore raider and I don't care for PvP much, so for me there is only one single thing that WoW does better than Final Fantasy XIV. Magic items actually feel like magic.

    But the story, the music, the graphics, the combat, the professions, the side content, the events, the frequency of content updates, the dev communication, the quest design, the gearing, the interface, the character creator...I prefer the latter.

  20. #300
    a couple of years ago i'd have said maybe people have just become jaded or outgrown the game after playing for 10+ years.

    but nowadays i don't think you can be critical enough of a company like blizzard after the poor products, dick moves and budget cuts they have pulled recently, they have to earn back a lot of trust the coming years.

    for me personally: yeah i'm pretty jaded about wow, but until recently that never affected my thoughts about their other IPs. i should be excited about diablo 4 but i just don't see a world where it isn't going to become a nickle and diming game with too many bugs/issues/problems for the pricepoint.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-02-25 at 11:32 PM.

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