How to easily improve LFG and make M+ less horrific to pug

[Logwyn]

Yep a single trash pack in hc shattered halls would destroy a tank without proper CC. I remember TBC and especially early cata heroic dungeons being harder than current +15s which are a joke, just a matter of learning a pre-determined route...

Those were the good old days. I miss them.

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People actually had a great deal of trouble clearing TBC heroics. And M+ dungeons are much harder than TBC heroics.

No M+ are not harder than TBC heroics.

[dacoolist]

Those were the good old days. I miss them.

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No M+ are not harder than TBC heroics.

You mean like M+2 or you mean M+15 or higher , because I could agree that lower mythics, but IDK about 15s or UP fam

[Kokolums]

New feature:

You enter the LFG interface. You list the dungeons that you want to run along with their levels. For example, all SL dungeons at keystone levels 14, 15 and 16. Anyone making a group that fits those criteria can instantly see all people that potentially want to run that key and can invite them.

Easy peazy. You no longer need to manually apply and reapply for hours. Just list your preferences, hit up LFG and wait until you get invited.

This feature is actually already implemented.

It is called COMMUNITIES. You can actually create a community dedicated to advertising for runs for specific key levels. Beyond that, you could even create a community for each dungeon. If you want to run Sanguine Depths, you can join the Sanguine Depths community.

Or you could make tabs for each dungeon in a dungeon community.

1. Create a keys community.
2. Create 1 general tab for people to sit in when not interested in keys.
3. Create 8 tabs, 1 for each dungeon. If people want a dungeon, they join that tab.

[dacoolist]

This feature is actually already implemented.

It is called COMMUNITIES. You can actually create a community dedicated to advertising for runs for specific key levels. Beyond that, you could even create a community for each dungeon. If you want to run Sanguine Depths, you can join the Sanguine Depths community.

Or you could make tabs for each dungeon in a dungeon community.

1. Create a keys community.
2. Create 1 general tab for people to sit in when not interested in keys.
3. Create 8 tabs, 1 for each dungeon. If people want a dungeon, they join that tab.

I actually really like the key community idea here!

[Argorwal]

Those were the good old days. I miss them.

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No M+ are not harder than TBC heroics.

Low keys like +2-5 maybe, but anything higher mythic+ is massively more difficult than TBC heroics.

And when TBC classic comes out they are going to get destroyed.

[Trend]

nah - removal or toxic raider.io would instantly improve lfg experience.

Nah, good players would just PUG less if at all. Raider.io is the reason you can PUG non-trivial keys at all. Much easier just to wait for friends to log in than to waste time trying to carry random shitters. By shitters I mean the people who suck too much to get invited to groups so they bitch about raider.io on forums.

[Thirtyrock]

Sounds neat, i can pick the best players more easily.

Thing is, as long as there are more supply than demand for dpsers, the low ilvl+rio+non-meta dps is gonna get shafted 100% of the time.

The only way to solve the experience is for blizz to add more fucking tanks and healers. Seriously, we have 4 classes that have nothing but 3 dps specs each to choose from... and given that these classes have so many dps specs between them its quite likely that one or several of them will be among the top preforming specs (read meta), so we are gonna see an even higher representation of these classes than others given the higher ratio of dps/tank in raids.

Another idea would be to start designing raid encounters with 3 or 4 tanks in mind. Contributing to an overall larger part of the playerbase that mains as a tank.

There will never not be a tank shortage unless the vast majority of a Tank's responsibilities are removed. It's not that we have too few tank specs, it's that we have too few people wanting to tank.

I used to think that designing raid encounters around 3/4 tanks would help with the tank shortage, but M+ basically does away with the incentive to have 2 tanks for 25 people. Anyone who wants to tank M+ can roll a tank and tank without affecting the balance of raids. People still aren't doing it because most people don't enjoy tanking. And I think the consensus view is correct, people don't enjoy tanking because you get trashed if anything goes wrong, regardless of whether or not it's your fault.

You've got to have thick skin and have to be willing to prepare far more than most players in the group. It's super satisfying when it goes right, but it's painful when it doesn't.

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Well, if it is not fun, it is boring. It is kinda the definition of 'not being fun'. And again, DPS, once a certain key level, do more than a tank.

Fun and boring are not antonyms.

Having your leg broken is not fun but also not boring.

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I mean, if players are just going to keep looking for easier ways to do the content (through r.io or otherwise), couldn't it be argued that they don't really want the challenge? Otherwise they'd intentionally bring less represented specs and lower ilvs or try to teach people with lower scores. Seems like a catch 22: players asked for difficulty, maybe didn't actually want that but the idea of it.

you're mistaking efficiency for easiness. Players are going to try to complete the highest level of content they can do. Bringing the right teammates along will help with that.

When you're playing with people you don't know and aren't necessarily going to play with often, you look for ways to reduce the randomness that random players bring, like pulling in the best specs or players with high r.io or high gear, etc. Your goal is not EASINESS or you'd just do Heroics, your goal is success, which means hedging the potential downsides.

I want to clear hard content (hard for me, anyways). If bringing Class A is better than Class B I'll do it because it helps me achieve my goals.