1. #67081
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Only court approved visitors. I'm not sure about family/spouse though. I am almost certain each case is handled a little differently.

    That would be fantastic.
    The narcissist would probably forfeit visitors for a lot of mirrors.

  2. #67082
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    There is no upside to Kemp doing that. It might seem attractive, but as @D Luniz pointed out, he would get killed in the 2022 election. Stacy is probably going to beat him anyway, so there could a lame-duck commutation, but that's down the "maybe" road.
    Do you think we'd even have a verdict and sentencing by the 2022 lame duck period? It's entirely possible he could do a pardon and/or commutation either as a FU if he lost or as a gamble after he wins re-election that people will forget by the time he's up again.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  3. #67083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Do you think we'd even have a verdict and sentencing by the 2022 lame duck period? It's entirely possible he could do a pardon and/or commutation either as a FU if he lost or as a gamble after he wins re-election that people will forget by the time he's up again.
    Interesting point. The investigating and prosecuting authorities could push to delay it. Trump and his legal team would almost certainly delay as much as possible. We're almost two full years out from an in-place GA Governor, so maybe.

  4. #67084
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    I really don't think those charges would stick. Mainly because Trump didn't say "I want you to now go to the Capital, invade it, and try to hang Pence." Given his office, and the nature of political rhetoric I think it will be extremely hard to get anything to stick with the Jan 6th riots.

    There might definitely be something with Georgia -- although again...there may be enough wiggle room in the fact he didn't outright say "commit election fraud for me that's an order." As for other things -- like obstruction of justice and the like...those are more political and I am going to guess the Biden administration is going to have the stomach to go after Trump.

    Well I guess we'll see...I'm not so optimistic.
    The glory of this, Biden doesn't have to have the stomach for it, he shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. All he has to do is appoint an Attorney General who will do their job.

    If we let Trump off the hook after all this, we invite it to happen again and likely the next person won't be as incompetent as he is.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  5. #67085
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Hey, yeah - that's a good point. If that's his "home" then no one else could come in, and of course he couldn't have the resort open with guests coming and going. Interesting.
    I thought the only reason he's allowed to live there is being a live-in domestic service employee of the resort. A classy establishments like that fires a felon immediately.

  6. #67086
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    The glory of this, Biden doesn't have to have the stomach for it, he shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. All he has to do is appoint an Attorney General who will do their job.

    If we let Trump off the hook after all this, we invite it to happen again and likely the next person won't be as incompetent as he is.
    You mean nominate an Attorney General. He already has: Merrick Garland. Good chance it'll be approved in the Senate too since apparently even McConnell approves of the pick. If he had a soul I'd say it's out of guilt for stealing the SCOTUS seat from him under Obama, but, yeah.

  7. #67087
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    You mean nominate an Attorney General. He already has: Merrick Garland. Good chance it'll be approved in the Senate too since apparently even McConnell approves of the pick. If he had a soul I'd say it's out of guilt for stealing the SCOTUS seat from him under Obama, but, yeah.
    No soul there to be found, what McConnell wants to see if Trump off the field and the illusion of being fair and impartial so they don't get as big of a push to expand the courts which they need to do.

    McConnell might be doing this because he is afraid of Manchin flipping and actually going with removing the filibuster if he tries the stuff he did under Obama.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  8. #67088
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    The glory of this, Biden doesn't have to have the stomach for it, he shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. All he has to do is appoint an Attorney General who will do their job.

    If we let Trump off the hook after all this, we invite it to happen again and likely the next person won't be as incompetent as he is.
    yup


    Acting Capitol Police chief tells lawmakers militia groups seek to 'blow up the Capitol,' targeting Biden speech
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  9. #67089
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yep, that's Trump once again citing his 75 million without citing Biden's higher 81 million figure which directly refutes his point. Actually @tehdang you seem fairly active. Do you believe that Trump won the election? Also, could you name 3 experts (easy to do, if there are "many" unless you're a gully dwarf or troll from Discworld) who agree with Trump, that weren't directly paid by Trump to say so? Or, by failure to do so, do you admit Trump is spouting factually false information?

    1) The DoJ could still go after him for obstructing justice -- such as by firing Comey. So far no such move has been announced, of course, but this seems like the sort of thing Biden could pull out of toolkit if Trump proves to be a legit terrorist threat. Think putting Al Capone away for tax evasion, except in this case, it's for tax evasion because he shot the IRS guys.

    2) There's the Georgia phone call. We know there's movement on that. Graham is probably Trump's closest remaining ally geographically, and we know Graham is trying to convince Trump to be a team player which I choose to mean "begging Trump not to fuck things up any further" until I have proof otherwise.

    3) Congress is still asking for Trump's returns. Trump no longer has a stranglehold oin the IRS. If, incidentally, it turns out Trump had the IRS burn all his records, that's not an action of a President and not protected -- or at least, that'll be the case made in court when "destroying federal records" charges are filed. Also, stupid fucking idea because other firms that filed Trump's taxes would just have spare copies for their own protection. As we saw earlier, a Trump judge refused to block them entirely, but did say there was a 72-hour "heads up" order if Biden decides to hand them over to Congress. That expires March 3. There's plenty that Congress can still do with those -- although it's too late for one of them to be "prevent a known compromised failed businessman to have access to the country's most valuable secrets and also an untapped line with Russia".
    I'm not going to be too-too active, this being a fast moving thread and my other commitments beg for my time. And, naturally, those other things are much more useful than debating politics from a right-wing perspective in a time of political rancor. But I'll give a tiny bit of these a go, with no promises for further answers or your satisfaction.

    Trump lost. As far as votes go, it was fair and square. In the sense that Hillary claims she didn't lose fair and square, Trump can whine about censorship or deep state activity or whatnot that hurt his chance, but the deeper truth is that the vote in a Democracy is the ultimate decider and he lost the vote. And Trump ran a bad campaign, and his four years in power had several areas of failure and incompetence, but you get the picture.

    I don't think he'll suffer criminal penalties for your 1-3, or much at all. Comey was a subordinate employee, and as we learn from the Mueller report, and incompetent manager of his team and seriously betrayed the principles of his office. He could've been fired for any reason or no reason at all. He exists at the pleasure of the President. A criminal inquiry just won't happen. He'd have to have been secretly recorded by a witness directing the firing for stated purposes of hiding criminal activity he confesses to, and it won't happen.

    The Georgia phone call was impeachable conduct, but not legally a great problem. The investigation could be a headache for him, naturally. He basically says he presumed problems with the vote and he was seeking a remedy that he thought was justified, and there's ample evidence he thinks he's overturning fraud. He survives that one. Apologies if anyone is a lawyer from Georgia that has a more intimate knowledge of their state laws to speak at some extra legal jeopardy particular to Georgia and not shared with other states.

    The only real *threat* is that the investigators poke around and there's something in past finances that we don't know already that actually was criminal. Not inflating figures on taxes, since naturally the IRS accepted their value and did not dispute after filing. He pays a monetary consequence if they say he improperly wrote off 3 million dollars that wasn't found. And sure, he deserves it. And don't go all "stranglehold on the IRS," since somebody literally committed a felony by releasing his records to the NYT. If you want obvious criminal behavior, that's an easy gimme.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  10. #67090
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Trump lost. As far as votes go, it was fair and square. In the sense that Hillary claims she didn't lose fair and square, Trump can whine about censorship or deep state activity or whatnot that hurt his chance, but the deeper truth is that the vote in a Democracy is the ultimate decider and he lost the vote. And Trump ran a bad campaign, and his four years in power had several areas of failure and incompetence, but you get the picture.
    Hillary conceded the day after... Trump is still talking about winning the election by a landslide. Also, he lost the popular vote in 2016, launched an investigation into losing the popular vote, then ended it without revealing the results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The only real *threat* is that the investigators poke around and there's something in past finances that we don't know already that actually was criminal. Not inflating figures on taxes, since naturally the IRS accepted their value and did not dispute after filing. He pays a monetary consequence if they say he improperly wrote off 3 million dollars that wasn't found. And sure, he deserves it. And don't go all "stranglehold on the IRS," since somebody literally committed a felony by releasing his records to the NYT. If you want obvious criminal behavior, that's an easy gimme.
    The guy paid no taxes for nearly 20 years, claiming losses on government forms, but claiming increased value while signing loans. One of those is fraud... pick which one...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #67091
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    One of those is fraud... pick which one...
    Man, the "Porque no los dos?" girl is gettin way too much use.

  12. #67092
    The Undying
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    I'm going to take a stab here...

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I'm not going to be too-too active, this being a fast moving thread and my other commitments beg for my time. And, naturally, those other things are much more useful than debating politics from a right-wing perspective in a time of political rancor. But I'll give a tiny bit of these a go, with no promises for further answers or your satisfaction.

    Trump lost. As far as votes go, it was fair and square. In the sense that Hillary claims she didn't lose fair and square, Trump can whine about censorship or deep state activity or whatnot that hurt his chance, but the deeper truth is that the vote in a Democracy is the ultimate decider and he lost the vote. And Trump ran a bad campaign, and his four years in power had several areas of failure and incompetence, but you get the picture.
    Hillary conceded the day after. Intelligence agencies of the United States agree there was interference, from Russia, on behalf of Trump.

    I don't think he'll suffer criminal penalties for your 1-3, or much at all. Comey was a subordinate employee, and as we learn from the Mueller report, and incompetent manager of his team and seriously betrayed the principles of his office. He could've been fired for any reason or no reason at all. He exists at the pleasure of the President. A criminal inquiry just won't happen. He'd have to have been secretly recorded by a witness directing the firing for stated purposes of hiding criminal activity he confesses to, and it won't happen.
    Comey was fired because of the Russia probe - Trump is literally on record saying as much. That's obstruction of justice.

    The Georgia phone call was impeachable conduct, but not legally a great problem. The investigation could be a headache for him, naturally. He basically says he presumed problems with the vote and he was seeking a remedy that he thought was justified, and there's ample evidence he thinks he's overturning fraud. He survives that one. Apologies if anyone is a lawyer from Georgia that has a more intimate knowledge of their state laws to speak at some extra legal jeopardy particular to Georgia and not shared with other states.
    He asked the SecState, on a call that was recorded, to "find me 12k votes". That's the definition of voter fraud. Hence the investigation.

    The only real *threat* is that the investigators poke around and there's something in past finances that we don't know already that actually was criminal. Not inflating figures on taxes, since naturally the IRS accepted their value and did not dispute after filing. He pays a monetary consequence if they say he improperly wrote off 3 million dollars that wasn't found. And sure, he deserves it.
    What does that even mean? The IRS doesn't wave their right to dispute values after filing - that's literally what an audit is for.

    ...since somebody literally committed a felony by releasing his records to the NYT. If you want obvious criminal behavior, that's an easy gimme.
    You have no idea if that's true. The law pivots on the person having the tax records in possession not legally able to have them to trigger the felony. If someone with the legal right to have those records gave them to the NYT, then publishing them wasn't a felony. And the NYT has an amazing legal department, so they probably vetted them before printing.

    What else ya got?

  13. #67093
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Right -- but those charges are going to be incredibly hard to land in criminal court. I think Trump's legal liabilities (at least this point) are mostly financial and those aren't likely to come with hardcore prison time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah, I'm sure his lawyers will find a way to weasel into some cushy service but I'd love for him to be forced to feed the homeless or work with minorities.
    He could dismantle the wall.....

  14. #67094
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Everyone else already slapped your seemingly intentionally disingenuous post, but I've seen Airplane too many times not to join in.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    the IRS accepted their value and did not dispute after filing.
    This is false information. You either said something intentionally untrue (you are lying), or you posted on something despite knowing far too little about it. Trump has been under audit for a decade, and Trump claims even longer. (This doesn't stop him from releasing his taxes of course) Everyone here in these forums, which should have included you, knows this.

    Please post constructively, and stop calling me Shirley.

  15. #67095
    77,377 new cases, about 32k fewer than 2 weeks ago.

    Top 5:

    New York: 9,051 new cases; 112 deaths
    Texas: 7,813 new cases; 313 deaths
    Fuck Florida.
    California: 5,366 new cases; 384 deaths
    New Jersey: 3,577 new cases; 70 deaths

    Bit of a spike for New York today, though they also had one last week at about the same time. Unclear if it's a correction or just the way test processing is going there. The average drop for the past two weeks is about 16k which is slightly higher than what it was the past few days. Testing is increasing in Texas and they might be back at the level they were within a week, but until then consider their numbers underreported.

    2,414 deaths is about 800 fewer than two weeks ago and brings the total to 520,785. That is again about a 400 drop average per week and chances remain good we'll be heading south of 2k more permanently by next week.

    Related news:

    Fauci: Whatever COVID-19 vaccine is available, 'take it'--Glad he came out and said it because I've been hearing rumblings (not just in the US) from people wanting to wait until better vaccines come along. Don't. Get it as soon as you're eligible. Don't become a fucking vaccine snob.

    Stay safe, folks.

  16. #67096
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Everyone else already slapped your seemingly intentionally disingenuous post, but I've seen Airplane too many times not to join in.
    Please post constructively, and stop calling me Shirley.

  17. #67097
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Everyone else already slapped your seemingly intentionally disingenuous post, but I've seen Airplane too many times not to join in.



    This is false information. You either said something intentionally untrue (you are lying), or you posted on something despite knowing far too little about it. Trump has been under audit for a decade, and Trump claims even longer. (This doesn't stop him from releasing his taxes of course) Everyone here in these forums, which should have included you, knows this.

    Please post constructively, and stop calling me Shirley.
    Ask questions, don’t like the answers, that’s politics in a nutshell I guess. But I think there’s enough discussion at the margins to not close up the shop with “but my opponent is arguing so disingenuously!!!11”

    We can go around the pivot; from was the vote totals correct, to was it fair, to what it means to concede and whine for years after, to whine and inspire violence. The troubling thing about real slippery slopes is it’s a slope. And certain *passionate* individuals will always claim all context is whaboutism and all history deflects from the point (you’ll perhaps note no defense offered in the posts responding to my response to you, just pivots)

    Literally, if all responses ignore context and just jab at some point they think is the big idea, I wonder why they try. Seriously. Respond to the allegations, don’t just dismiss and go on with what you wanted to say. Pretend that the phone call with Georgia was just a 12 second clip on its own. Ignore the plain law on employees of the IRS releasing an individuals tax return. Ignore, perhaps intentionally, my distinction on criminal tax complaints from merely “Trump pays a little more on previous tax returns” result of tax inquiry. He skates on 99% of what we know now, and everybody’s betting there’s some more hidden stuff that will come out and be criminal. That’s the plain truth.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  18. #67098
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    So y'all remember that scene in the Ten Commandments based on that book people are always talking about (I forget the name) where all the Israelites turn away from god and started worshipping a golden calf and that ended kinda badly for them?

    Me neither but apropos of nothing, here's a picture of a gold plated statue of Trump that's gonna be adorning CPAC this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #67099
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    So y'all remember that scene in the Ten Commandments based on that book people are always talking about (I forget the name) where all the Israelites turn away from god and started worshipping a golden calf and that ended kinda badly for them?

    Me neither but apropos of nothing, here's a picture of a gold plated statue of Trump that's gonna be adorning CPAC this year.
    This is on-brand for the modern GOP. This is why people say it's a cult.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Ask questions, don’t like the answers, that’s politics in a nutshell I guess. But I think there’s enough discussion at the margins to not close up the shop with “but my opponent is arguing so disingenuously!!!11”

    We can go around the pivot; from was the vote totals correct, to was it fair, to what it means to concede and whine for years after, to whine and inspire violence. The troubling thing about real slippery slopes is it’s a slope. And certain *passionate* individuals will always claim all context is whaboutism and all history deflects from the point (you’ll perhaps note no defense offered in the posts responding to my response to you, just pivots)

    Literally, if all responses ignore context and just jab at some point they think is the big idea, I wonder why they try. Seriously. Respond to the allegations, don’t just dismiss and go on with what you wanted to say. Pretend that the phone call with Georgia was just a 12 second clip on its own. Ignore the plain law on employees of the IRS releasing an individuals tax return. Ignore, perhaps intentionally, my distinction on criminal tax complaints from merely “Trump pays a little more on previous tax returns” result of tax inquiry. He skates on 99% of what we know now, and everybody’s betting there’s some more hidden stuff that will come out and be criminal. That’s the plain truth.
    The phone call to Georgia wasn't just a 12-second comment, it was a long, long phone call where he did everything in his power to compel them to commit fraud to help him win.

    And yes, context is important... this is you defending this bullshit, because he's your guy. The context is quite clear, you chose to push outright lies in order to shill for the man.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-02-26 at 03:04 PM.

  20. #67100
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Me neither but apropos of nothing, here's a picture of a gold plated statue of Trump that's gonna be adorning CPAC this year.
    The only way it would be even more appropriate was if it was hollow.

    ...it is? Perfect.

    Oh, that picture has bad resolution, but I'm pretty sure that paper says "We the People" on it. Does anyone have a better shot?

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