Racism in Top End guilds exposed.

[Roundhound]

Here we go again!

Here's the biggest problem with these type of threads, what do you want random internet strangers to do about it? Ok some idiots are potentially racist. What is the point of the thread? Just everyone sitting in a circle going "Hey those people are bad"? All you can do is make it known those people are potentially bad people and move on. What else would you have happen?

That is mostly what all of the "so what" comments are really about. What do you want us to do about it.

[Marrilaife]

The wow community tends to be racist, sexist and all other sorts of forms of toxicity.

Such breaking news you have here thank you for the revelation!

Aaaaand we have a winner here!

When a guild of my friends disbanded, one member said as a farewell "such a shame, you were the only guild where people didn't spam n-word, homophobic and sexist comments".

[Thalrend]

I'm actually fine with jail time... and I think some people who've been accused would be too. It's better than the weird purgatory a lot of people end up in. Go to jail, serve your time, apologize... but then the key is, let them back INTO society once the sentence is served. I mean, sure, a week in jail for saying the N word and people would stop right quick.

What makes the N-word deserves jail time but asshole not? What makes any word deserve jail time when other words don't? What stops the goverment jailing your sorry ass when they have the power to put people in prison for "words"? Do you agree with everything that your goverment does? I don't, and if you are educated enough you shouldn't either because no goverment is perfect. Everybody can get corrupted, the second you give people the right to jail people because of "words" you shoot yourself in the foot, because at that point genie is out of the lamp.

Go to North Korea, disagree Kimmy boi there, see what happens to you. Unless you call for violence, you should not be punished because of words. If i say I will kill you and I will kill you in 30 minutes, thats is a big difference than some 18 year old dudes throwing edgy racist words towards each other on a random, private discord group. Learn the fucking difference.

[Hellobolis]

Which covers hate speech during those processes and is still longer then 10 years. The FBI has also investigated hate crimes as far back as WW1 according to their own website on the topic. So it seems like the problem you have is even worse. It isn't ignorance on the subject but intentional protecting of hate speech through whatever means you can. Weird for a person that said you wouldn't take a stance either way right?

Things change. No one has ever said they do not. Stop trying to hide behind things simply because you keep wanting to protect hateful things. Hate is hate. What matters is how that hate is used now and how it was used in the past. There is a reason why not all past usage of things is considered equal. The person using hate speech in the past, present, or future is not a victim. They are a casualty of their own hate. Stop trying to claim otherwise just because things change.

Normal doesn't mean it still isn't hate. What a weird thing to even try to argue. Because using your logic hate speech or anything bad can not exist as long as the people doing such actions view it as normal.

people can worship satan in their own house for all i care. it's nobodies business, especially the governments.

the only stance i'm taking is in favor of privacy. oldest trick in the book to instantly twist that into "oh then you must support x y and z bad things!"

were basically back where we started: do you want a policeman in your own house?

[arkanon]

people can worship satan in their own house for all i care.

But not publicly, a freedom all other religions have in "free" countries?

[rhorle]

What makes the N-word deserves jail time but asshole not? What makes any word deserve jail time when other words don't? What stops the goverment jailing your sorry ass when they have the power to put people in prison for "words"?

Even in the United States you can still be jailed for the things you say. So that argument is silly. If you make a threat towards someone you can be brought up on charges even if it was just words. It happens all the time. There are exemptions to most Free Speech laws around the world. There really is no true freedom to say whatever you want with out consequences.

While jail time for a lot of these cases is extreme and silly there really does need to be a way to educate and approach the subject beyond simple empty chastisement. Do a lot of people just use it with out harmful intent? Sure. Do the really understand what it means? Not really. Ignorance isn't an excuse though. It is an explanation and how they proceed from their defines how they move on. That is why using "free speech" is a cop out in cases like this. It does nothing to educate and attempt to fix the problem because it is being used as a reason for why there actually is no problem with what they said.

Discord isn't "private" anymore then screaming hate speech from your car driving down the road with your windows rolled up is private. It may not meet the legal definition for a public forum but it is still a public space.

- - - Updated - - -

people can worship satan in their own house for all i care. it's nobodies business, especially the governments. the only stance i'm taking is in favor of privacy. oldest trick in the book to instantly twist that into "oh then you must support x y and z bad things!" were basically back where we started: do you want a policeman in your own house?

I am not twisting anything. You keep defending hate speech as okay by saying that the alternative is a police state with people in your own house waiting to arrest you. This isn't the case of a person alone in their house saying something bad. Discord isn't their own house. But yes hate speech even done in a private gathering should still not be tolerated.

I don't need the fear of arrest to stop myself from using hate speech. The better question here is why do you need a policeman in your house in order to stop you from using hate speech? Oh right it isn't really you but just a fear you keep trying to present as a realistic scenario. Hate shouldn't be tolerated with or without the threat of arrest.

[evertonbelmontt]

do you want a policeman in your own house too in case you ever say something politically incorrect in that private setting?

catch them denying a applicant because of racism and then there might be an issue if it's an incorporated guild, but until then it's just people in a private setting doing private things.

100% agree.

It doesn't matter what or how they talk between their space, it's their right to free speech.

This should have never gone public, even though I find it all so immature. It's even worse because its taken completelly out of context.

[Roundhound]

I mean, even if the government doesn't punish the n word, society certainly, 100% does, swiftly and fairly aggressively. I was basically just saying that, if society is going to punish it, why not systemize it and give people a path to rehabilitation. It would also solve the biggest issue with the n word, which is that certain people can say it and others can't, and a lot of the transgression we see here is just people who are annoyed that others can do something that they can't do, even if it's just a word so who cares?

Of course, african americans would never allow the n word to be outlawed even if the constitution allowed it, so it's a moot point.

But where do you draw the line? Once you start sending people to be "educated" when do you stop?

[ztkraptor]

I have been to Mexico and seen the racism/hate European descent Mexicans have against the indigenous Mexicans and dark skin tones.

Soo hope you enjoy your fantasy of what the world is like.

WOOOW mexico...jeeze don't go too crazy.
You should try Japan or China..or basically any European country... ROFL

[rhorle]

But where do you draw the line? Once you start sending people to be "educated" when do you stop?

To be fair I would think a person that always uses expletives in their speech could use some kind of education on being more polite or circumspect in their speech. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[TigTone]

WOOOW mexico...jeeze don't go too crazy.
You should try Japan or China..or basically any European country... ROFL

So what’s your point? What was the main purpose of responding to my original post?

[deenman]

100% agree.

It doesn't matter what or how they talk between their space, it's their right to free speech.

This should have never gone public, even though I find it all so immature. It's even worse because its taken completelly out of context.

you dont have a right to not be kicked of a platform by a private company or fired for being a bigot,also there is no context that would excuse the things said lol,did you even read that article?

[Violent]

America is racist; no surprise it is found in its online communities.

One of the most diverse countries in the world, and we're blanket termed racists.. That's a bunch of bullshit.

[deenman]

One of the most diverse countries in the world, and we're blanket termed racists.. That's a bunch of bullshit.

to be fair its diversity is the reason for it,the weirdest thing i have ever seen is the odd hate for canadians by a fair ammount of people in usa lol,i mean....what reason could you even have to hate canadians...besides the jealousy of it being superior in almost every way as a country ofc

[Caerrona]

Woke zoomers getting butt hurt.

Another year or two and we will all be chipped and heads will explode if we have any thoughts that go agaisnt sjw terms.

[evertonbelmontt]

you dont have a right to not be kicked of a platform by a private company or fired for being a bigot,also there is no context that would excuse the things said lol,did you even read that article?

There's a lot of context in which it could. I won't go into details because if you don't see it, I CBA to tell you, sorry. But think about friends or kids.

As for consequences, if it does ill to someone or has ang kind of prejudice against someone, sure. Like the guy said, show us some evidence of actual racism. The words alone taken out of context means nothing and at least in Brazil for it to be racism you need to exclude someone from doing or achieving something solely because of color or etiny.

I don't care for your feelings or hate speech if you're triggered by this, lol

[Roundhound]

Fair point... I guess what I’m saying is, like, take Michael Vick. He killed and strangled a bunch of dogs... but then he went to jail and afterwards was largely accepted back after a period of penance. He missed two years but then was back on National TV.


For these other things, we don’t seem to know how to deal with it because it’s not illegal, so it seems permanent ostracism is the punishment. Louis CK’s thing was like 3.5 years ago now and he’s got no shot, none, of ever coming back to Netflix. It’s be nice to find some socially acceptable way to allow people to atone.

First, I don't know anything about the Louis CK thing (I don't think I have listened to any of his stuff). Has he actually done or said anything since then? Would it be so bad to let his works come back onto Netflix or another platform?

The biggest problem today seems to be that people believe no one can change and anything they ever said in the past is 100% who they are today. You hear frequently enough about people getting in trouble for tweets 6 years ago when they were 17. This is society currently assuring that no one can ever make a comeback. At some point you have to let them try.

Also, my biggest concern when it comes to all of this is who determines what words are bad? Sure, everyone knows N* and F* are bad. Just the other day though I heard some new word for cool? I think, drip. Language evolves and the last thing you want is to punish someone that has no idea about a word.

[rhorle]

As for consequences, if it does ill to someone or has ang kind of prejudice against someone, sure. Like the guy said, show us some evidence of actual racism. The words alone taken out of context means nothing and at least in Brazil for it to be racism you need to exclude someone from doing or achieving something solely because of color or etiny.

Out of context? Not really. A few of them also are aware of how bad the language is by being careful around streaming or VOD recordings. Which shows that they are intentionally being hateful rather then ignorant slips of the word. The reddit threat has links to the images but it is clear that nothing is being taken out of context here. It also implicates several in real money transactions as well. So even from a gaming standpoint they aren't stellar.


https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...raiding_scene/

[Goradan]

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

There is no such thing as egalitarianism, only degrees of bigtory.

[rhorle]

Also, my biggest concern when it comes to all of this is who determines what words are bad? Sure, everyone knows N* and F* are bad. Just the other day though I heard some new word for cool? I think, drip. Language evolves and the last thing you want is to punish someone that has no idea about a word.

They clearly are shown to be talking about how they had to delete a VOD because of what someone said and how others ask if anyone is streaming before using certain language. Pretty sure they know it is bad and just don't care. Which is part of the problem. Do they need to be canceled forever? No. They should be given the chance like most people are.