What is difficult on 4 horseman? You need around 8 tanks, that's it. Even Naxxramas is around as difficult as LFR was around Throne of Thunder (and don't have any idea how it is in lfr in shadowlands, since i don't play anymore). The only thing is that Naxxramas is a huge jump up in difficulty from before and the Gear is vastly superior from naxx than any other raid before, so the upgrade there really matters for it.
Only the one shot mechanics there makes naxx very difficult compared to everything before. But i raided naxx in vanilla and found it not as hard as everyone think it is.
Especially nowadays with DBM&Co it's fricking easy.
I think old high-end raiders were as skilled as those today, but they lacked the time to do proper theorycrafting. And in Classic, everything is math. Strats were never an issue.
Thinking about talent trees (instead of deep prot), which items are the best (with Vanilla you must even look back at 45+ items), which buffs matter, takes a lot of analysis to see how to get the biggest impact on stats.
It would not have been possible to do that between Naxx release and TBC release.
1.12.1 was Vanilla easy mode for new players/classic players, it was literally all the boss nerfs and class tuning right before TBC pre patch. Still have some stupid doubt that it didn't, compare the time it took to kill Rag in Vanilla WoW to Classic WoW....SPOILER the difference is 154 days almost
That still doesn't explain why Naxxramas was also easy and in the end it really doesn't matter. Classic being easy is one of its strengths not one of the weaknesses. The biggest problem in my opinion with retail WoW is that both the raids and the higher dungeon keys in m+ are so incredibly difficult that you can't just bring your friends and have fun, you have to perform at a very high level and good people are often pushed to the side in favor of high performers that may not be as fun to play with.
I agree, it is cancer. It means I have to log on around 18:15 for a raid that starts at 20:00. It pretty much wrecks the time I have between getting home from work and raiding and which I used to use for household chores like making dinner.
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There's also the small matter of keeping those tanks alive. And then keeping everyone else alive. 4HM may not be difficult in concept, but there are not many fights before it where you have to coordinate and time movements to the second.
What made Classic Vanilla "so easy" is the meta World Buffs and 20+ Warriors and Rogues in most raids.
We could’ve played with Rets, Owls, Shadow Priests, Eng/Ele Shamans, Affliction Warlocks, Smite Priests and all the reat like people dud 16 years ago ...but we know better and chose not to do so.
WoW Classic wasn’t easy because it launched on a later patch with better itemization, WoW Classic was easy because it’s a piss poor game when it comes to class/spec balance and developmemt. But this is what people wanted, for some reason (I’m not one of the #NoChanges people). Imagine how much harder, and better, Classic Vanilla would’ve been if Warriors and Rogues were nerfed by 40% and then the lower end specs buffed by 40%? You’d actually see more of the game!
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No wonder with almost 13 years of private server training stuff gets killed pretty quickly. Some people here still do not understand how impactful privat servers are when it comes to fast clearing old content. I myself also play on a wotlk private server and will also oneshot everything as soon as it comes out. No matter with what gear and what content level. Years of training so to speak
A lot of people get around that by picking up those buffs earlier in the week, and then just not playing those characters at all until they have to log in for raid time.
Obviously, that's a problem in itself too that what you have to do to manage getting ready for raid time means you can't even play your character in the days before it.
Everyone wants to think what they did was an accomplishment and don't want it destroyed by the fact of the truth and that's the vanilla wasn't hard. When it came out, sure but not because the content itself was hard.
You had PS players who wanted to brag about this awesome hard content they've been doing while retail players had it "easy"
You had the wannabe vanilla players who never even raided that wanted to seem special
Imagine comparing any fight in classic to modern WoW, imagine if classic fights had the mechanics and tuning of Heroic Rag, Mythic KJ or even Mythic Archimonde. No Classic isn't hard, by any means. And to all the kids saying TBC will be hard? no, it won't. M'uru will be 1 shot, quote me on it in a year.
Not entirely sure how thats not 100% accurate and proven.
Do you really think a random group of 40 people, pulled from an LFR que, would have the coordination to have tanks and healers move on their correct mark? You have way more faith in the general player than I do.
The vast majority of an LFR raid would die within four ticks of the horseman's marks, and they would never figure out why. You would cycle through so many tanks trying to get ones that would actually listen to the taunt sequence. It's not a hard boss fight, but it is way to difficult for LFR. Most LFR raiders would be crushed by any normal mode boss.
Didn't 1.12.1 lower health of bosses, etc, and increase player power?
Wouldn't this in turn, yes, make everything easier? Hmmmmm
This is honestly what I am concerned about with TBC - they start us on patch 2.3 or whatever it was and everything is already essentially a faceroll. I want some of the TBC heroic and raid challenge still.
Just because it would have still been easily defeated by dedicated players it doesn't mean it wasn't easier. Classic WoW in the final patch is not the same game as it was earlier, the same will be exactly true for TBC. We will get 2.4.3, which is very different to 2.1, which itself is very different from 2.0.
Probably running on a Pentium 4