Have We Become Overly Critical?

[Asrialol]

With the most stubburn dev team in the world?!

No, i don't think so. Honestly, it's the criticism that managed to turn the game away from the destructive path it was on (AP, titanforging,corruption, basic class design, etc).

If we didn't criticize, the game would be in a much worse place.

Honestly, the problem is they don't listen until we riot and even then they choose to be stubburn. #pulltheripcord was right and we are paying the price now cause they wanted to be stubburn.

The faction balance thing as well. They are more worried about Blizzcon shouts than preventing an incoming issue where you can only play challenging content in a single faction. This stuff should be getting adressed now and they are waiting too long as usual.
No, we are not overly critical. Only if you take every single complaint with 1 reply in the forums and project that as a complaint at large.

People didn't criticize though. They whined and moaned like kids.

Still worked. But calling it criticism is a stretch. Most people on this forum are faaaaar from constructive.

[username993720]

it seems more like some people are hitting air and blizzard stands behind them thinking "what the fuck is this guy doing?"... or actualy paying them no mind

They've got Vanilla resistance gear.

[NineSpine]

Your wife can't even grasp "use this ability to generate" and "use this ability to spend"?

My condolences...

It would be great if within the first hour she was given one builder and one spender. Instead, she was given multiple of each and a bunch of other shit, including abilities she literally wasn’t supposed to use.

For example, why is a player being given hamstring at level 4? To her, this is just another spender, so you use it when you can right? No, hamstringing enemies is useless in the early game. It’s an ability that is useless but you are given it so you try to include it in your attacks. To a new player, the thought is “why would they give me this if I’m not supposed to use it?”

She was given Taunt without an explanation of what taunting an enemy means or does.

She was given Slam right away, an ability that is basically always bad, but it was given so early that she assumed it to be integral to combat and ended up favoring it over the better abilities.

She was given an Attack ability, which made her think you use that to start all combat.

It’s a real shitshow for someone who has never played the game before.

So, in the interest of science, I had her play classic. Never had to ask me a single question, figured out what abilities to use on her own, didn’t need my help. Why? Because even though the abilities are more obtuse and less clear, they are given to players at a reasonable pace.

[blankfaced]

Nope. Far better options out there to put your money on. You can get full game libraries from other services for the same price.

Just because the cost of WoW hasn't gone up doesn't mean people can still afford it. In the US at least wages have been stagnant for decades, getting vastly outpaced by inflation and cost of living increases. So that 15$ a month isn't as feasible as it used to be, especially once you take into account the fact you need a decent computer and internet connection (which is another 60$ a month quite a few people in the US can't afford. A hard stat to find answers on because there's a plethora of reasons people might not have internet at home.)

Some people find there are more enjoyable ways to spend their time than paying to beta test a game and informing a multibillion dollar corporation that some of the base talents in their game are still bugged. I could watch paint dry, snow melt, water boil, the sun rise, the sun set, squirrels warming their balls on a roof, squirrels getting it on (30s btw, that's all it takes them), a cat puking in the street, said cat eating said puke....the list is endless.

[Lolites]

They've got Vanilla resistance gear.

perhaps, or they snort some strange dust

[sil3ntearth]

Nope. Far better options out there to put your money on. You can get full game libraries from other services for the same price.

Just because the cost of WoW hasn't gone up doesn't mean people can still afford it. In the US at least wages have been stagnant for decades, getting vastly outpaced by inflation and cost of living increases. So that 15$ a month isn't as feasible as it used to be, especially once you take into account the fact you need a decent computer and internet connection (which is another 60$ a month quite a few people in the US can't afford. A hard stat to find answers on because there's a plethora of reasons people might not have internet at home.)

Some people find there are more enjoyable ways to spend their time than paying to beta test a game and informing a multibillion dollar corporation that some of the base talents in their game are still bugged. I could watch paint dry, snow melt, water boil, the sun rise, the sun set, squirrels warming their balls on a roof, squirrels getting it on (30s btw, that's all it takes them), a cat puking in the street, said cat eating said puke....the list is endless.

I agree it shouldn't be released with class and/or gaming breaking bugs. The game was less buggy when they spent a bit more time releasing expansions. Also, I think the .05/.1 release schedule may make them a bit less motivated to fix everything right away. The other thing to consider is that the game is far more complex than it was, which is another thing that can be discussed. I, personally, hate that they add new "features" in the way of stuff like covenants every expansion instead of expanding the talent system in a more direct way. It's unnecessarily complex at times and that drives me nuts.

As far as cost of entry goes, that hasn't changed in the last 15 years. I would say that most people are probably paying more than $60 a month for internet now, but that's not just to play WoW. Literally everything is done on the internet now. You've always needed a PC to play PC games.

If you find yourself watching squirrels screw, I'd argue you probably have more problems going on outside of WoW not being up to your standards anymore.

[Swnem]

People didn't criticize though. They whined and moaned like kids.

Still worked. But calling it criticism is a stretch. Most people on this forum are faaaaar from constructive.

You have unrealistic expectations if you think everyone can articulate an argument. Most people go off feelings. They ask for feedback in those terms sometimes as well. It is what it is.

[OMGTwitchTV]

You have unrealistic expectations if you think everyone can articulate an argument. Most people go off feelings. They ask for feedback in those terms sometimes as well. It is what it is.

Articulation is not a requisite for a solid set of constructive criticism. All that is required is expressing the concern and offering a solution. Here are two non-articulate ways of expressing displeasure with something that needs to be fixed:

Player 1: "Your shit fucking sucks Blizz! GG! Fix it or we will all unsub!!!"

Player 2: "I hate covenants. Anima farming is bullshit! Fix it!"

Now, of the two, unless someone is just trying to be an obtuse douche and fight about relative semantics, option 2 is at least more clear and while a solution is not given, the problem is at least outlined while still being expressed through emotions. I don't think anyone is asking players to remove their emotions from the feedback. Emotion is a powerful and driving force when it comes to being critical about a game you have loved for years. I think what would benefit everyone in the game would be to at least attempt to approach the feedback with some sense of direction letting Blizz know what you are unhappy about, and not just a generic statement that cannot be addressed. Going to the doctor and saying, "I hurt, fix this" is not telling him where he should start.

[mbit]

Ok let's build on that:

Player: "Covenants are trash."
Devs: "Ok, which parts are trash?"
Player: "People hate this system."
Devs: "Ok, which part do they hate?"
Player: "All of it."
Devs: "If you had to pick your least favorite part, what would it be?"
Player: "I hate how much anima shit takes and how long it takes to gather it."
Devs: "I can work with that."

If it all goes well, the Anima drop rates are increased to accomodate without drastically changing or trashing the system. As you can see it was not a huge leap from "Covenants are trash" to "I hate how little anima I get". If the criticizer jumped straight to that piece, the criticism feels more solid and is more likely to get attention and be addressed. Just my opinion.

Have you ever seen a game survey? Devs ask do you like this feature? yes no maybe. Nobody has the time to read 500.000 player ideas. What they want to know is simply what most players complain about. The quality of the complaint doesnt matter for this.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I wouldn't say we're overly critical. Though I do think our criticality doesn't do anything. Blizzard frankly doesn't care about the negative feedback anymore. They've been this way since WoD, they aren't changing, no matter how many times we have the same arguments about Borrowed Power, Mission Tables, and Content Droughts.

[Varodoc]

This is what they have. More than a few have been banned from the Blizzard boards so make their way here. For the most part there's very little useful in their threads although some of the answers to those topic take the idea seriously and do more with it than the OP ever did. I believe that many threads by constant complainers disappear quite quickly on Reddit through downvotes. So that's not much of an option either.

That explains why 90% of the people here are so frustrated and salty.

[WillyA]

Never

[OMGTwitchTV]

Have you ever seen a game survey? Devs ask do you like this feature? yes no maybe. Nobody has the time to read 500.000 player ideas. What they want to know is simply what most players complain about. The quality of the complaint doesnt matter for this.

Quality is immaterial. They just need a bit more input than "fix your fucking game". That was my only point. The criticizer just needs to offer a single specific, even in the most caveman of forms: "Anima needs bigger rewards." It may be extremely basic like a 3rd grader's comment, but at least it has a semblance of direction.

[chaoticcrono]

people are not critical enough

[anon5123]

the only thing I'm truly critical of is their slowing me down during my time played. removing flight's availability at the onset, removing flight master's whistle, sparse flight points. if they want to time-gate stuff that's fine If I'm happy I'll be subbed anyway but if you make it feel like my time logged in is being unnecessarily wasted traveling I'm not happy.

WoW is an MMORPG, not a lobby game. If you want a game where there's no travel time and you just teleport everywhere, go play Call of Duty.

Also "sparse flight points" fucking lmao, in Shadowlands, the flight points are so close together that it takes literally like 45-60 seconds to run between them, and each zone has like 6 or 7 flight points in it. Compare this to vanilla where there's only ONE flight point per zone. One.

[OMGTwitchTV]

WoW is an MMORPG, not a lobby game. If you want a game where there's no travel time and you just teleport everywhere, go play Call of Duty.

Also "sparse flight points" fucking lmao, in Shadowlands, the flight points are so close together that it takes literally like 45-60 seconds to run between them, and each zone has like 6 or 7 flight points in it. Compare this to vanilla where there's only ONE flight point per zone. One.

And in some cases, none. Originally in Classic, we didn't even have a flight path in Searing Gorge or Burning Steps until 1.5.0 when Morgan's Vigil and Thorium Point finally got one. Used to be you could fly from Ironforge into Loch Modan and then run south into Searing Gorge IF you already had the key from the dwarven guard to unlock the gate. That required a completely longer trip through the Badlands into the south eastern corner of Searing Gorge to kill the kodo just to take the horn BACK to Ironforge for authentication to then bring BACK to the guard to add that gate key to your keyring. If you were lucky, you were at least lvl 40 by then and had a single mount to speed up your trip.

[Advent]

We? No. People on THIS website? Absolutely. And it's basically an echo chamber of the same talking points over and over again. Complete with others pointing out the flaws in those arguments getting told they're "White Knights" or "Simps". Apparently being critical is supposed to protect you from someone else critiquing your talking points, which would lead any reasonable person to conclude that this whole place has become nothing more than people wanting to pat each other on the back for "Taking it to Blizzard", or as I said previously, an {{{Echo Chamber}}}

[Relapses]

The last time I tried to ask somebody to post constructively on this forum I was told to "eat a dick." Kind of a lost cause when that's not an exception but rather the norm.

[Swnem]

Articulation is not a requisite for a solid set of constructive criticism. All that is required is expressing the concern and offering a solution. Here are two non-articulate ways of expressing displeasure with something that needs to be fixed:

Player 1: "Your shit fucking sucks Blizz! GG! Fix it or we will all unsub!!!"

Player 2: "I hate covenants. Anima farming is bullshit! Fix it!"

Now, of the two, unless someone is just trying to be an obtuse douche and fight about relative semantics, option 2 is at least more clear and while a solution is not given, the problem is at least outlined while still being expressed through emotions. I don't think anyone is asking players to remove their emotions from the feedback. Emotion is a powerful and driving force when it comes to being critical about a game you have loved for years. I think what would benefit everyone in the game would be to at least attempt to approach the feedback with some sense of direction letting Blizz know what you are unhappy about, and not just a generic statement that cannot be addressed. Going to the doctor and saying, "I hurt, fix this" is not telling him where he should start.

The first one is not what i consider articulate nor feedback. That's just crazy talk.

The second one is what i am talking about. That is not articulate either. But, that is the type of feedback they ask for when they ask for feelings (as well).

Maybe i should clarify that when i say articulate i say a justified argument. That means you expose the issue, the reasons why it is bad and what should be done to address the problem.

[Osmeric]

Since everyone is entitled to their own reaction to a product, it's not even possible for someone to be too critical.