[TV] WandaVision

[draugril]

Has anyone suggested that Wanda may have retconned her own show to create a scapegoat for her world falling apart in Agatha?

[PACOX]

She's done this in the comics, and there's enough statements made by the very people she took the life force from to make it pretty conclusive.

Darcy/Photon both confirmed that what they experienced was real, it's not some illusion. In the hex, those kids and vision are real. There's more than enough references and details to support this.

What's inside the Hex maybe 'real'. But only instead of the Hex. A pocket dimension within our own. The Hex itself is still unnatural - or subject to Wanda's own will and desires.

My point is how do we know Agnes is the bad guy? Why should she trust the manifestations of the kids as someone who knows nothing about Wanda but knows a bit about magic? Could someone else be benefitting from all of this?

[tommyhil622]

What's inside the Hex maybe 'real'. But only instead of the Hex. A pocket dimension within our own. The Hex itself is still unnatural - or subject to Wanda's own will and desires.

My point is how do we know Agnes is the bad guy? Why should she trust the manifestations of the kids as someone who knows nothing about Wanda but knows a bit about magic? Could someone else be benefitting from all of this?

Don't know for sure, all i'm saying it's currently pointing that way. We won't know for sure till next week.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

How would he even know that? I know he said it. This entire bit was very suspicious.

The answer to that could be anything

It could be that he knows that because, as the head of SWORD, he has access to that information.

It could be that he has that information because he's Ex-Hydra and had access to their research on Loki's Spear

It could be he's an otherworldly entity merely masquerading as Tyler Hayward.

Or it could be he knows that because the writers needed him to and were too lazy to come up with an actual reason why he does. :P

[Ayirasi]

Well that explains why Vision couldn't leave the town. Decent episode, but there's so much to wrap up in such a short time without having a feature length finale or some wack cliffhanger.

Salem Hahn was kinda hot.

[PACOX]

Don't know for sure, all i'm saying it's currently pointing that way. We won't know for sure till next week.

We're all just speculating here. All I am trying to say is that there's Agnes doesn't necessarily have to be the villain and why the scene with the kids would not make her one.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

My point is how do we know Agnes is the bad guy? Why should she trust the manifestations of the kids as someone who knows nothing about Wanda but knows a bit about magic? Could someone else be benefitting from all of this?

Well, we know that Agnes is a bad guy...we also know that Hayward is a bad guy. We don't know if either of them is the bad guy. Wanda could very well be the "bad guy". Hell, could be that none of them are the bad guy. There might not be an overarching bad guy. There might just be multiple bad guys all doing their own bad guy things independently of one another.

[PACOX]

Well, we know that Agnes is a bad guy...we also know that Hayward is a bad guy. We don't know if either of them is the bad guy. Wanda could very well be the "bad guy". Hell, could be that none of them are the bad guy. There might not be an overarching bad guy. There might just be multiple bad guys all doing their own bad guy things independently of one another.

We are looking for a villain and a motive

Why is Agnes a villain? Because she is a witch? So is Wanda. Because she is investigating and does not trust Wanda? Wanda is not a very trusted character in the MCU even amongst heroes. The only reason to believe so now is due to a TV trope in a show about TV Tropes in a franchise that often manipulates tropes.

Hayward is a sociopath if anything right now. Earlier I said he speaks to Monica and Wanda in a particular way but that might have been too vague. He seems to deal with basic human emotions in a distinct way - like he does not understand them. Could be significant to his character or simply be his misguided downfall.

Certain conclusions feel like they are cheating but things are adding up.

[Frozenbeef]

I'm curious if Wanda actually recreated the infinity stone or if it's just a fake.

Vision without the stone is pretty much just a high defense robot and wouldn't pose much of a threat.

[Ayirasi]

I'm curious if Wanda actually recreated the infinity stone or if it's just a fake.

Vision without the stone is pretty much just a high defense robot and wouldn't pose much of a threat.

Maybe Hexvision and Zomvision somehow merge?

[DonChalk]

Well, we know that Agnes is a bad guy...we also know that Hayward is a bad guy. We don't know if either of them is the bad guy. Wanda could very well be the "bad guy". Hell, could be that none of them are the bad guy. There might not be an overarching bad guy. There might just be multiple bad guys all doing their own bad guy things independently of one another.

I really don't think Agnes Is the bad guy. I think she's looking for *help* I really think with all the multiverse movies we're getting in the future and a new fantastic four movie coming that we're gearing up towards a Franklin Richards introduction and driving force between of the next set of films as we have our heroes band together to save the shit head.

[PACOX]

I'm curious if Wanda actually recreated the infinity stone or if it's just a fake.

Vision without the stone is pretty much just a high defense robot and wouldn't pose much of a threat.

I figured she simply recreated Vision how she remembered him. When she questions 'reality' (before she got her memories back, she sees Vision how he is supposed to look (as far as she knows) aka Zombie Vision without the stone. The stone is just there because she remembers it being there, it's not real.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

We are looking for a villain and a motive

Why is Agnes a villain? Because she is a witch? So is Wanda. Because she is investigating and does not trust Wanda? Wanda is not a very trusted character in the MCU even amongst heroes. The only reason to believe so now is due to a TV trope in a show about TV Tropes in a franchise that often manipulates tropes.

I'm not concerned that she is a witch. I'm concerned that she rips the life-force out of other people. I'm concerned that she's using Wanda's children, real or not, to extort her compliance. That's not typically heroic. Like I said...she may not be the big bad...but she's not there out of the goodness of her heart.

As far as other Heroes are concerned...any distrust they had for Wanda was gone before Infinity War. The only issue they had with her was from her sneaking off to boink Vision...and that was because they didn't entirely trust him to keep her away from Stark.

Hayward is a sociopath if anything right now. Earlier I said he speaks to Monica and Wanda in a particular way but that might have been too vague. He seems to deal with basic human emotions in a distinct way - like he does not understand them. Could be significant to his character or simply be his misguided downfall.

Sociopaths understand human emotions. They just don't experience them very strongly. And yeah, he could very easily be one...or it could be something more. Not enough evidence yet.

[Anastacy]

I'm curious if Wanda actually recreated the infinity stone or if it's just a fake.

Vision without the stone is pretty much just a high defense robot and wouldn't pose much of a threat.

He still has super-strength/speed and can use his phasing for “attacking”, how does lacking the forehead laser make him defensive only?

[PACOX]

I really don't think Agnes Is the bad guy. I think she's looking for *help* I really think with all the multiverse movies we're getting in the future and a new fantastic four movie coming that we're gearing up towards a Franklin Richards introduction and driving force between of the next set of films as we have our heroes band together to save the shit head.

Oh lord, we are getting a third incarnation of the Fantastic Four aren't we? Disney loves pulling in actors from other comic movies. We are going to get Ben Affleck as Reed Richard? Henry Cavill as the Human Torch?

[rhorle]

Why is Agnes a villain? Because she is a witch? So is Wanda. Because she is investigating and does not trust Wanda? Wanda is not a very trusted character in the MCU even amongst heroes. The only reason to believe so now is due to a TV trope in a show about TV Tropes in a franchise that often manipulates tropes.

Because the show has literally shown her to be evil? She killed her coven after stealing and practising dark magic. Is shown to be lying to try and convince them she is innocent. Has been manipulating Wanda to figure out her source of power. Has a magical garrote around the neck of her kids (real or fake) to further manipulate Wanda. But hey that is all a TV Trope of an evil character. Or you know it could be that she is actually evil.

Just like you keep pushing for Hayward to be some crazy evil person because of the way he talked. It is weird how you dismiss one character while trying to push another when Hayward is much more of a TV Trope then Agnes is.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Vision without the stone is pretty much just a high defense robot and wouldn't pose much of a threat.

Vison, even without the stone, is an Ultron-level threat in a nearly invulnerable body.

[Aurrora]

Why is Agnes a villain?

Because she killed a puppy.

[tommyhil622]

We're all just speculating here. All I am trying to say is that there's Agnes doesn't necessarily have to be the villain and why the scene with the kids would not make her one.

I agree she doesn't necessarily have to be villain.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Oh lord, we are getting a third incarnation of the Fantastic Four aren't we? Disney loves pulling in actors from other comic movies. We are going to get Ben Affleck as Reed Richard? Henry Cavill as the Human Torch?

All the studios do that.

Batman and Green Lantern weren't Affleck and Reynolds first rides on the Super-Hero train.