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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    A SHIELD organization.

    Tony had a ridiculous amount of clout. Tony also 'retired' during that time though. Hulk was being a celebrity.. Captain America had already had a falling out with the government and pulled back a bit. I would Black Widow would have been the hurdle SWORD had to overcome and she was pretty overwhelmed.
    SWORD isn't SHIELD.

    And it's hard to know how much Pull Tony may have had. We don't really know what the state of Government was after the SNAP.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  2. #802
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Worth Knowing View Post
    Wanda. It was fairly clear in one of the flashbacks.
    I only black this out because I feel like it might ruin the mystery for some people.


    Yeah someone gave a reason its most definitely her even if the MCU was trying to be a little different in its approach. It would be lame if its not her at this point. The more I think about it the more it being one of the kids is ridiculous.

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  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm pretty sure she never said that.

    She wanted to know how Wanda did it.

    Not the same thing.


    That's not a contradiction of what I said. He was falling apart, and the pieces were pulled back into the Hex.


    "Falling apart" is not really analogous to "functioning".


    It literally is not. Where the hell did you get that?

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...lish/crumbling
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/crumbling
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crumbling
    https://www.thefreedictionary.com/crumbling
    https://www.lexico.com/definition/crumbling

    Take your pick of any dictionary.
    It's actually hard to figure out even at the end what she wanted. It seems half like she considers her maybe an abomination to a degree by the way she's talking, but she never flat out says what her intentions are. Definitely correct that the only thing she definitely said is she wanted to know HOW.

  4. #804
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    SWORD isn't SHIELD.

    And it's hard to know how much Pull Tony may have had. We don't really know what the state of Government was after the SNAP.
    You could be right. Sometimes SWORD is part of SHIELD, sometimes it isn't. It is fair to say it is separate in the MCU.

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  5. #805
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We were discussing inciting events. I.E. Thanos not being allowed to murder half his planet vs Agatha killing her coven as they were executing her.
    Thanos wanted to murder half the planet to save the other half. That's the part you keep dropping.

    His entire planet is dead now. His argument was that 50% dead > 100% dead.

    I'm not saying you have to subscribe to the logic of his theory...but you have to at least understand that is what he believed.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  6. #806
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    It's actually hard to figure out even at the end what she wanted. It seems half like she considers her maybe an abomination to a degree by the way she's talking, but she never flat out says what her intentions are. Definitely correct that the only thing she definitely said is she wanted to know HOW.
    I don't think it's fair to call Agnes good or evil yet.

    I think Agnes sees Wanda as a prodigy though, what Agnes does next depends on her motivations.


    Fangirl Agnes - - The Scarlet Witch is a legend told amongst witches and Agnes is really just happy to be in the presence of Wanda. She will try to ally with Wanda. (unlikely).

    Mentor Agnes - Agnes believes that Wanda needs to learn how to properly harness her magic, especially being a witch with a ton of potential. She will teach Wanda a lot more about her powers.


    Warden Agnes - This Agnes is not evil but not Wanda's friend. She sees Wanda as too much of a threat to the world will try to 'neutralize' Wanda before Wanda even has a chance to go down a bad path. Worse, be used by a much more powerful entity.


    Devil/Trickster/evil Agnes - This Agnes is in league with a certain someone or working for herself. Her goal is to trick Wanda into working for her, to somehow steal Wanda's powers, or to deliver Wanda to someone I think is brought up too much across the internet. I think it could be another guy who people completely forgot that starts with a K as well.

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  7. #807
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I only black this out because I feel like it might ruin the mystery for some people.


    Yeah someone gave a reason its most definitely her even if the MCU was trying to be a little different in its approach. It would be lame if its not her at this point. The more I think about it the more it being one of the kids is ridiculous.
    Sort of like fox pietro. If he’s not fox pietro then it’s just dumb. No other reasoning will excuse it. You don’t cast that and expect fans to not feel completely betrayed, especially with talks of nexus and knowing that this phase is about the multiverse with wandavision taking fans down the rabbit hole and the rest of the movies exploring wonderland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  8. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post


    Fangirl Agnes - - The Scarlet Witch is a legend told amongst witches and Agnes is really just happy to be in the presence of Wanda. She will try to ally with Wanda. (unlikely).


    Mentor Agnes - Agnes believes that Wanda needs to learn how to properly harness her magic, especially being a witch with a ton of potential. She will teach Wanda a lot more about her powers.


    Warden Agnes - This Agnes is not evil but not Wanda's friend. She sees Wanda as too much of a threat to the world will try to 'neutralize' Wanda before Wanda even has a chance to go down a bad path. Worse, be used by a much more powerful entity.

    I feel like Agatha's approach towards Wanda up to this point makes all of these options seem unlikely.

    In regards to Fangirlling...well, if that's the case she's gone full tilt into the "I'll murder your children if you don't tell me you love me" phase.

    As for her teaching Wanda a lot about Magic....this part I do believe...but I don't think it will be entirely intentional and I don't believe she's going to do it for Wanda's sake.

    And Agatha's had opportunities to neutralize Wanda and she hasn't taken them...she wants to know how she's doing it.

    Devil/Trickster/evil Agnes - This Agnes is in league with a certain someone or working for herself. Her goal is to trick Wanda into working for her, to somehow steal Wanda's powers, or to deliver Wanda to someone I think is brought up too much across the internet. I think it could be another guy who people completely forgot that starts with a K as well.
    I'm more concerned that the "other guy" has a name that starts with a "C".
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2021-02-27 at 06:27 AM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  9. #809
    Before I begin, I'm genuinely curious: Are you physically incapable of admitting when you're wrong? It sure as hell seems so based on your posting history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's not a contradiction of what I said. He was falling apart, and the pieces were pulled back into the Hex.
    Yes, it is a contradiction. He was NOT "falling apart." He was literally being RIPPED apart. The Hex was pulling him back in, and he was fighting against it (something a corpse can't do, as an aside). He was begging SWORD to help the people while doing so (again, not something corpses are famous for), and THAT was killing him; resisting the pull of Wanda's magic. But he was completely functional, thinking, performing physical actions, and talking the whole time he was being torn apart, and THAT was what was killing him, not being outside the Hex. That's why Wanda had to expand it, because even she knew he would never give in until he actually died. Because, you know, he was fucking alive while it was happening. Which, yet again, is not something a corpse is: Alive.

    "Falling apart" is not really analogous to "functioning".
    I never said falling apart, that's you and your complete and utter lack of understanding both the scene and the English language as a whole.

    It literally is not. Where the hell did you get that?
    It literally is.

    Sure, I'll play your game of painful ignorance on your part.

    From the examples in https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...lish/crumbling: She nervously crumbled the bread between her fingers and the cliffs on which the houses are built are starting to crumble

    Note that neither of those examples include being ripped apart and pulled into a vortex, but lifelessly falling to the ground.

    Main definition of the word as an intransitive verb from https://www.dictionary.com/browse/crumbling and https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crumbling AND https://www.thefreedictionary.com/crumbling: As an intransitive verb, "to FALL into pieces."

    You do know what "fall" means in this context, right? Since clearly you don't it's not "being sucked into a vortex of magical energy" it's "fall lifelessly to the ground." (Notice a fucking trend yet?)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I feel like Agatha's approach towards Wanda up to this point makes all of these options seem unlikely.

    In regards to Fangirlling...well, if that's the case she's gone full tilt into the "I'll murder your children if you don't tell me you love me" phase.

    As for her teaching Wanda a lot about Magic....this part I do believe...but I don't think it will be entirely intentional and I don't believe she's going to do it for Wanda's sake.

    And Agatha's had opportunities to neutralize Wanda and she hasn't taken them...she wants to know how she's doing it.
    Or the more likely answer if you paid attention to the opening scene, she's interested in either learning how Wanda is capable of doing this and/or stealing that power from her for herself (though it's unclear if that was a conscious or subconscious effort on her part).

    Learning what the book is she has would help unlock the answer, I'm sure.

  10. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Sort of like fox pietro. If he’s not fox pietro then it’s just dumb. No other reasoning will excuse it. You don’t cast that and expect fans to not feel completely betrayed, especially with talks of nexus and knowing that this phase is about the multiverse with wandavision taking fans down the rabbit hole and the rest of the movies exploring wonderland.
    Agatha only said she possessed him (and it's "faux," by the way, not "fox"). I doubt she has the power to give someone a superpower, let alone superspeed, so it very well could be the X-Men Quicksilver still; she just twisted his mind in her favor and/or implanted false memory of that world's Piotr. Do note that faux can also mean "not genuine" not simply "fake," which fits here; he isn't the genuine Piotr Wanda knew, but that doesn't mean he's not a Piotr/Peter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I took the killing of Sparky as an attempt to wake Wanda up. It almost worked. And I feel like the dog was created by Agnes, since Wanda was shocked and confused to even see the dog in the town.

    Was probably just another bug that she transformed into a dog.
    Yet it was still alive, and she killed it. (She gave no indication that she could create life; that was why she's so interested in Wanda's chaos magic, because it can.)

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Worth Knowing View Post
    Agatha only said she possessed him (and it's "faux," by the way, not "fox"). I doubt she has the power to give someone a superpower, let alone superspeed, so it very well could be the X-Men Quicksilver still; she just twisted his mind in her favor and/or implanted false memory of that world's Piotr. Do note that faux can also mean "not genuine" not simply "fake," which fits here; he isn't the genuine Piotr Wanda knew, but that doesn't mean he's not a Piotr/Peter.
    Sure she can, it's super speed. With her magic it wouldn't be hard to fake especially if it was just for the sake of keeping up appearances. Besides magically manipulating a doll seems like it'd be easier than summoning someone from another universe and controlling him.

  12. #812
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Worth Knowing View Post
    Agatha only said she possessed him (and it's "faux," by the way, not "fox"). I doubt she has the power to give someone a superpower, let alone superspeed, so it very well could be the X-Men Quicksilver still; she just twisted his mind in her favor and/or implanted false memory of that world's Piotr. Do note that faux can also mean "not genuine" not simply "fake," which fits here; he isn't the genuine Piotr Wanda knew, but that doesn't mean he's not a Piotr/Peter.
    Was this a joke?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  13. #813
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    All this talk about Agnes and I think only one person spoke what Scarlet Witch means and perhaps why Agnes would have a reaction when she concludes Wanda is her.

    Correct me if I am wrong, Wanda hasn't been Scarlet Witch up until now.
    Well, her character has always been branded as the Scarlet Witch in marketing but they're using a loophole that she's never actually been called it onscreen to retcon it.

  14. #814
    Why do y'all give a shit about semantics so much? Knock that shit off. It's boring as hell. Narratively, it doesn't matter if Vision is falling apart or being ripped apart.

    The narrative focus is that he can't survive leaving the Hex, Wanda knows that because she created him, and she expands the Hex greatly to ensure he's safe.

    Y'all arguing about definitions is like missing the forest for the trees. It's like y'all don't understand storytelling at all.

  15. #815
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The narrative focus is that he can't survive leaving the Hex, Wanda knows that because she created him, and she expands the Hex greatly to ensure he's safe.
    But the narrative doesn't indicate if she knows the reason why he can't. She didn't how/why she created him until this last episode and for all we know Agatha could have had a hand in stopping Vision because she still need to get the information from Wanda.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #816
    Three undeniable reasons why Agnes is a villain:

    1. She has a small white pet that she gently strokes while monologuing.
    2. She killed a puppy
    3. Disney gave her the best song

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by Nastard View Post
    Three undeniable reasons why Agnes is a villain:

    1. She has a small white pet that she gently strokes while monologuing.
    2. She killed a puppy
    3. Disney gave her the best song
    And BINGO was his name-o! Lol.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    What Authority would they have to stop a government organization following it's charter?
    Tony and Captain America had no problem defying the government when they felt the government was not doing the right thing. Especially Captain America who had a built mistrust of the government and was a fugitive.

    Let’s say Tony fell into a depression or isolation and that’s why he didn’t stop Heyward, Captain America however would never just leave Visions body. Captain America had no problem openly defying the government to rescue the Avengers from the government.

    Anyways a majority of the Avengers did not care to oppose the government.

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    So as for Pietro, I still think he was someone sent by the TVA, maybe to ask exactly the questions Agatha wanted an answer to too and she latched onto him to listen and see. She only refers to him as her 'eyes and ears' and we still have the fact that the breach alarm went off when Peter appeared. He came from outside.
    Or he came from Agatha's basement, as the Runes prevent the Hex to expand until there. So maybe anything that comes through generates the breach alarm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    So Wanda actually brought Vision back to life because she absorbed the same stone he was using back in that lab when she was younger? That’s what allowed her to do it?
    Could very well be that when Wanda was trying to destroy the stone during IW, that established a connection between those two that allowed her to "store" part of Vision's consciousness inside her.

    ---

    Something that I am struggling with a bit... Did Wanda have any power before Hydra's experiences ? The scene where she "was going to use her powers" in Sokovia sounded like what Agatha thought happened, which was dismissed by Wanda who said "no need, the missile malfunctioned".

    I'm extremely confused about Pietro too. I didn't really understand Agatha's explanation, it sounded like a complete creation out of nowhere, so the casting was like... just to confuse us, and that's disappointing.

    I don't know what to expect for last episode though.
    We have :
    - Agatha who is trying to provoke another burst of power in Wanda to absorb it, probably. Kids will die ? No idea, probably not on Disney+ though.
    - SWORD's Vision who will do what exactly ? Hayward has what he needs, will he risk sending Vision inside the Hex for.. what purpose exactly, except risking to lose him ?
    - Wanda's Vision who is MIA since Episode 07 when he flew away through the roof of the van
    - Monica who is completely MIA.
    - Darcy who is MIA, is she still stuck on the road or what ?

    That's a lot of stuff to wrap in 30 minutes. Even an hour sounds short.
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2021-02-27 at 11:51 AM.

  20. #820
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I’m not saying she created life. I think she just transformed an insect into a dog, like how we saw her turn it into a bird. It’s an illusion, so she’d really be killing a bug... and would that actually be evil?

    No.
    1.) Why is killing something evil but killing something isn't evil?
    2.) That must have been one hell of an intelligent and clever insect, giving Sparky acted just like a dog. The only times it appears to have been manipulated is when it earned its name and when it ran away. Otherwise it acted just like a normal dog.
    3.) You're assuming every aspect of this. Even during the Agatha All Along montage there was no indication that Agatha did this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Was this a joke?
    No. But I'm guessing you're another Endus. Feel free to go back over her discussing the subject. She never said she created Piotr, only possessed him. She also made mention of being able to implant thoughts and personalities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Why do y'all give a shit about semantics so much? Knock that shit off. It's boring as hell. Narratively, it doesn't matter if Vision is falling apart or being ripped apart.
    Yes it does. It's a huge difference. He didn't die when he left the Hex. The Hex was killing him by dragging him back against his will, rather than him poofing into dust or dropping the second he left and reverting to the illusory Dead Vision that Agatha created to spook Wanda. Him surviving even a nanosecond outside of the Hex proves that he was fully re-created by Wanda, and not just an illusion she created as a figment of her imagination.

    Also there's no indication that anything she's done so far is a mere illusion except changing her own appearance (which did disappear the second she left the Hex), but rather transformation/creation. Hence why everything remains in the new form when it leaves the Hex, rather than poofing back to normal when it leaves. Even for an instance or by so much as a Planck's length, you'll note.

    Y'all arguing about definitions is like missing the forest for the trees. It's like y'all don't understand storytelling at all.
    Only if you don't know what the forest even is in the first place, oh great and powerful intellect who doesn't even know what he's complaining about.
    Last edited by Nobody Worth Knowing; 2021-02-27 at 12:50 PM.

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