Why are non human races getting humanized?

[Overlordd]

Oh, that's because the Orc's cultural standard of honour was never about that. It was the fascistoid "might makes right" justified by themselves as honour so they could shape their narratives into them actually being good and descent!

If you look at the historical parallels the Orcish culture was so clearly based on the Lost Cause revisionism BS of the Confederate South even if the writers were unaware of it they still based it on that subconsciously, death of the author. They even had slaves who were happy to be slaves and for whom it was the natural state and desire to be enslaved.

If you're fascinated by the orcs and loves everything about their culture you've also stated, unknowledgeably, that you also love and are okay with that as that's part of, or at least were until they started reflecting on it how bad it was to transcribe tribal values to a society. Culture is both the good and bad things about it. Only looking at the good is Nationalism and whitewashing of the objective reality to fit a Nationalistic narrative.

The original Orcs were never the "good guys," they were never "lied to," and they were certainly never "misunderstood."

Gul-dan never lied to the Orcs. He promised them that the brew would make them stronger than anyone. And it did, and no one ever asked him if there were any side-effects. If he had told them it was a way to be immune to the Red Pox, which he himself had created, THEN he would have lied to them. The WoD timeline also showed that they WILLINGLY engaged in world plunder, no one forced them, no one controlled them, Kil'jaeden could have gotten them to attack Azeroth even without resorting to mc.

And as for them being imprisoned oh so unfairly. The facts, the Horde invaded Azeroth totally unprovoked, they looted, plundered, and killed at will, they were ultimately defeated, they became docile after Draenor blew up. This last fact was the only thing that stopped the Alliance from genociding them off the planet which they as the victors had every right to. The Orcs as a faction of the Horde only exists because the Alliance never resorted to the Orc concept of honour and instead showed mercy on them.

Holy projection there, you can't like things in a game because you automatically assume people would tie that to real life? What the fuck are you even talking about. You know people can divide fantasy and real life right?


ITS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME FOR A REASON.

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Orcs are based on cultures like the Mongols, the Turks, the Huns, Barbarians, Native Americans, tribal societies and Prehistoric Men. These were considered by the Europeans as savages.

Europeans were once savages themselves during the time of Rome. Stop with this nonsense.

[BossManRoth]

An Orc's culture was always about strength and "honor" on the battlefield. So it would make sense in Orcish culture that they'd often clash and that the most dominant brute Orc would often take lead.

Yet it's somehow an issue with players. You can play a noble human for all I care, but why are there so many people insisting that other races need to live up to Human standards in terms of culture and morals?

because the players are humans and we have a tendency to project our own moral structure onto our fantasy

[Aurosh]

Blizzard learned a long time ago that players didn't want to be the 'bad guys', so they took all the things that made the Horde cool and edgy and neutered it down so that there were no bad guys anymore.

Not just Blizzard. We had several games with decision making and over 90% decided to play a good character. That's one of the reasons you cannot invest much time into evil decisions - because nearly noone plays them. Players in general dont value them.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Blizzard learned a long time ago that players didn't want to be the 'bad guys', so they took all the things that made the Horde cool and edgy and neutered it down so that there were no bad guys anymore.

I was going to point out the Forsaken being edgy lads, but then I remembered Calia is now being introduced to the Forsaken, which is lovely and exactly what Forsaken players want.

[Dreadgear]

because the writers either
A) don't know how to write anything but humans and have no inspirations or interest
or
B)Are afraid to associate any race with fantasy stereotypes that would get them associated with political agendas, Remember how some stupid journos tried to associate orcs with BLM organizations?

So the safe thing to do, is just turn everyone into a human with no personality, stereotypes or characteristics

[Nerovar]

The reason they're all being pushed to this point is that the current set of writers no longer feel comfortable depicting anything they wouldn't also endorse

You could also add that in our current day political climate pretty much any depiction can and will be misconstrued as an endorsement.

In this context, it is understandable that they are moving away from distinct fantasy races bashing their brains in and instead focus on highlighting the shared commonalities.

[geco]

All the races of WoW were always humanized.
They are all humans with different values and points of view of the World.
The problem is that Blizzard cannot understand what cultural diversity is and that all cultures can evolve and grow without becoming European culture.

more than the humans of the Wow it does not have a real culture but a "human by default".

[justandulas]

Because the writing is bad and written for 12 year olds at best

Most other games, including mmorpg, offer depth of good and evil, and this actually pre dates wow with everquest letting you pick your deity, and good or evil races.

Where do wow players like myself, who want to be the villains, go for that outlet? I tried to be loyal to sylvanas but blizzards hilariously Disney channel writing struck again

The horde was much more evil and savage in wc2 and some of us want that horde. I didn’t roll zombie evil wizard (warlock) to be the hero forever

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Blizzard learned a long time ago that players didn't want to be the 'bad guys', so they took all the things that made the Horde cool and edgy and neutered it down so that there were no bad guys anymore.

You couldn’t be more wrong. In every mmorpg with good and evil as options, evil characters are far more popular to play and if WoW allowed a third evil faction to exist... guess which would quickly become #1?

[Super Dickmann]

You could also add that in our current day political climate pretty much any depiction can and will be misconstrued as an endorsement.

In this context, it is understandable that they are moving away from distinct fantasy races bashing their brains in and instead focus on highlighting the shared commonalities.

Pretty much. Even if the writers wanted to depict things in a neutral light that they wouldn't endorse, and they don't, were they to do so they would immediately be picked apart. Not even just by those in the same field but by their own customers. See the staggering amount of posts here and elsewhere about how one should 'fix' a given race or class so that it's more acceptable to the values of the consumer and ergo more like everyone else. Even the current neutered cast and twee message about love and acceptance is one person realizing that the wellspring of all that is good is a blonde, blue eyed white guy in charge of a standard European fantasy kingdom away from the writing staff being fed to hyenas.

Nice sig by the way.

[Tarba]

Show me your concept of a "less humanized" race and I am sure it will be

-either more humanized than you think
-so weird that nobody understands or plays them...or do you want to be slug that only speaks telepathically and adheres to the code of Zerb that means worshipping slime is meaning of all that is great. (and already I used the human concepts of a code, worshipping, meaning and greatness)

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Maybe I am the one out of the loop, but those are all humanized things. At least by the definition I find: "to make things more human or give animals human traits"

But I guess you and OP are talking about humanistic philosophy and all races now adhering to that. Apparently even goblins are not driven by avarice anymore?

We don't know much about orc culture in our world. So I guess that when someone speak on this forum about orc culture compared to human culture. It's about warcraft cultures.

[Sorrowseer]

Why do shows insist on applying 20th centuray morals and values on stories set hundreds of years ago.

Its dumb but it happens, sorry I have no single answer as to why.

[Thelxi]

Orc's aren't evil they're just ugly.

[Aleksej89]

Tribal societies, dictatorships and other archaic social concepts don't work out well enough especially as technology and society progresses.
Its too easy to usurp and its too susceptible to one lunatic leader running everything into the ground.

Also blizzard miserably fails to implement consequences into the wow storytelling.
Various horde-oriented factions keep making terrible decisions and alliance-oriented factions keep forgiving them "just cause".
Does not matter how many vile things the horde commits because blizzard will always force alliance to pardon them instead of razing their huts to ash.
In any even remotely realistic situation the orcs would have been wiped out at the first opportunity in war1 or 2.

[schwank05]

An Orc's culture was always about strength and "honor" on the battlefield. So it would make sense in Orcish culture that they'd often clash and that the most dominant brute Orc would often take lead.

Yet it's somehow an issue with players. You can play a noble human for all I care, but why are there so many people insisting that other races need to live up to Human standards in terms of culture and morals?

I am right there with you, although I despise Orcs. I did join the Horde back in 2005 to play the evil monster faction, I loved the Forsaken since release and am on board with everything they have done, I miss the good Ol days where plague bombings and the like were expected, Putress did nothing wrong he was killing everyone at the Wrathgate, I liked that Horde not this new we are all friends now Horde.

[Lord Pebbleton]

You did well to put "honor" in air quotes since no one knows the meaning orcs give to the word anymore.

Which is exactly the reason why I don't think orcs live up to any kind of moral standards

[Syegfryed]

because the writers are not great when it is to write about fantasy races, in a fantasy game, weird right? because they are not close to what they know, they know real life humans, is easy for then to humanize other races in order to write about then

Thats one of the reasons they highlight thrall so damn hard, because he "grow up as a human"(if you say that how he grow up was any humane), one of reasons Baine became so shit character, hell the lorthemar x thalisyra fanfic basically scream collegial human cringe love.

i don't mind the fantasy races being based and inspired in real world cultures(aka, real world humans) but there is a limit of they not being carbon copy of the standard pattern of the political correct behaviour

i liked when orcs were based around the mongols and the japanese bushido idea, liked how trolls were based around the Caribbean people and and other natives, taurens based around the native americans and all, but you cannot see more of those cultural traces in their behaviours or lifestyle anymore, no nuances, it became too blank and seems like the horde is the same shit

[Stelio Kontos]

I don't know how folks see Japanese culture in the orcs. Maybe if you have a shallow layer of knowledge about medieval Japan it seems that way.

I could see maybe Mongols, Turks, or Huns. The orcs have that whole nomadic slaughter/rape/pillage thing going on.

That being said, if you want orcs to be able to compete with humans, dwarves, gnomes, draenei and the like, they need to adapt and grow as a culture, or they would realistically go out like any other primitive culture when confronted by a superior material civilization; impotently charging into a blaze of gunfire from people who bother to learn, go to school and do more with books than burn or eat them.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Non human races are getting humanized because they are written by humans. Even the examples given of "what orcs are" are all really just examples of how humans have been in the past or even are today. Point being humans at this point in history only really know humans. So everything we think of or come up with are just human things that we either pretend we aren't anymore or think we can be but more so usually just a serious exaggeration of one or two elements of humanity that make it seem difference because its just so extreme.

[username993720]

Europeans were once savages themselves during the time of Rome. Stop with this nonsense.

Actually, they saw themselves as more civilized and advanced than the Barbarians that surrounded them.

And, by the way, ancient Rome is portrayed by the Ogres of WoD. and they belong more with the Horde, than the Alliance. So, it still doesn't contradict what i said.

I was going to point out the Forsaken being edgy lads, but then I remembered Calia is now being introduced to the Forsaken, which is lovely and exactly what Forsaken players want.

It still puzzles me as to why anyone would desire that.
Pre-warchief Sylavans was a, pretty, good example of a Forsaken leader.

Why do shows insist on applying 20th centuray morals and values on stories set hundreds of years ago.

Its dumb but it happens, sorry I have no single answer as to why.

Exactly.
Why do players get all emotional around Sylvanas' actions? it's a video game.
They, dead-ass, compare her to Nazi regime and other war criminals, as if her actions have some impact in the real-world.
Which is weird, because that's what you would expect from a Forsaken character.

I don't know how folks see Japanese culture in the orcs. Maybe if you have a shallow layer of knowledge about medieval Japan it seems that way.

Because of Blademasters.
Which, not all Orcs are.
"Blademasters draw clear inspiration from Japanese and Asian culture, particularly the samurai. Many blademasters have very Japanese-sounding names, some wield katana-like swords, many wear oversized mala beads around their necks (similar to the larger version of the prayer beads worn by Shaolin monks), and their distinctive banners are seemingly inspired by sashimono, small banners carried on the backs of soldiers in feudal Japan (the banners are even outright called "sashimono" in the non-canon RPG). Japanese influence can also be seen in the fact that blademasters, and the Burning Blade clan in general, are said to value honor above all else."

[Moonrage]

Yeah I dislike it too. Like Night Elves having a very gender-segregated society for millennia, and after the Third War they suddenly get rid of that system. Makes absolutely no sense.