Will the 9th expansion finally be fresh and not Legon 3.0?

[Bigbazz]

Yes, 1K anima is still anima farming.

And Yes, it is same as AP in Legion/BFA, very easy to catch up.

AP was an endless power gain, you could "catchup" to a reasonable level, you were still behind. You never fall behind on renown, if you don't do it the game just gives it to you anyway. And the start of Legion was heavily defined by how hard you could grind AP, killing later bosses in Nighthold relied on it. Our tank quit because he couldn't keep up, the power difference between someone who farmed AP hard was massive.

Same deal at this point of BFA too, huge gains for AP farming at the start. No gains for Anima farming, you can literally level an alt today and its on par with your main this week.

[Echeyakee]

I agree with the sentiment, if not the examples. I think the big focus on 3 end game paths, i.e. raids, M+ and PvP, and very little outside of it is the biggest issue. Somehow AB decided that world quests and lootbox like rewards from rep grind are an engaging form of content, and gave up on anything new. I don't like them, but I don't specifically blame those mechanics, it's just this is the third expansion where it was the only real activity outside of "the big 3".

And when they try other distractions, they are overly gated and over incentivized to be farmed. Just like the training thing in legion, islands, invasions and visions in BFA, the new additions in SL are fun at the start, but are essentially the same after several repeats. We have the maw, which is a bit more exciting rep farm, that becomes currency farm eventually. It's pretty fun to go around it initially, but the progression stops too early, so you're stuck with an annoying zone to navigate with no real prospect of it getting better. And it's obvious it was rushed. The hold area is already a bit iffy, they just stuck a bunch of elites in a castle. And the warrens area is just huge, barren and extremely annoying to navigate. The initial area was the most dense and interesting, the others are just there to annoy you. But you're still incentivized to farm it endlessly, cause sockets and conduits are noticeable power upgrades.

Then we have thorghast, which sounded fun, and I did enjoy it for a while, but the combination of priest powers being rather dull and the challenge of the activity being mostly in not falling asleep as you slog through the levels, it became stale pretty fast. There's not enough variety and progress for it to be engaging, like rogue-like games. At least this farm is a bit more manageable, depending on what legos you want to craft.

And we also got the covenant mini-games. I'm most familiar with ember court, and it's rather fun. Well, it was for a few months. The problem is that it's limited to a single ~ 10 minute run a week (tends to become even shorter as you optimize), and it's a rather easy puzzle to solve. So you quickly loose any challenge and are just up against a time gate, as you max out rep gained each week. And on top of that they decided that you need to do a bunch of annoying quests and turn-ins each week, just to pad out the time spent on the court. It's not fun having to do the same invitation quests over and over, especially when some of them are excruciatingly slow. There's something to the fact that I've taken the money option every single time, in the one that gives you a choice to either do a quest or pay 250 gold not to.

And there is also the toys/mounts/achievements farming. We got a ton of them this expansion, and I loved a bunch of them, but that did not last long, and it suffers from the overwatch lootbox contents syndrome. For every cool item you get, there are dozens if not hundreds of absolute trash you would never use.

So yeah, I think wow needs activities that are not just time-gated grinds, things that are not made to extend the playtime, but that are just fun to do. Until them, I'll be raid logging mostly.

[oplawlz]

While the op is more upset about it than I am, I do agree with most of the points they make. Drop the stupid endless grinds for a new currency every expansion and give us a breather expac with finite BiS gear and cosmetics to chase in each tier. And for the love of god just get rid of the follower table, at least for one expansion.

[Adoxe]

BFA was Legion 0.5 at most, not Legion 2.0.

[kaintk]

warcraft is just a phone game on pc since years

wq daily
wq table mission
weekly raid reset

i dont see any difference between that and a phone game

warcraft need only one thing : WoW 2 with new engine, new kind of gameplay, a fully reset of the story and a storyline more frequently released

the game actually is really too much static, 4-5 new quest each 3 month, its not dynamic at all , no city change hand, no city is burn out (in 15 year only 2 city was destroyed and that all lol)

[Darsyek]

Now change it from PVP to "Raid". Is your statement still true?

Yes. World Quests, anima, renown, it's all optional content. You can step into a raid in Shadowlands having never once touched a world quest and be just fine. What do world quests give you? Anima? Gold? Rep? A sprinkle of gear that wouldn't even matter to someone raiding regularly? None of those things impact your ability to log in, join a raid, and kill bosses. And I'm speaking as someone who does exactly that. I haven't touched a world quest in weeks, but I still happily log in, raid with my friends, and call it a night. Compared to Legion and BfA, Shadowlands has been such a nice, relaxed change of pace for raiders and grinding AP. I don't feel guilty for not logging in daily to grind out whichever version of AP is on the menu that month. I actually have time to play other games, holy shit, it's an incredible thought that I'm not glued to WoW just to keep up with my friends.

[Argorwal]

While the op is more upset about it than I am, I do agree with most of the points they make. Drop the stupid endless grinds for a new currency every expansion and give us a breather expac with finite BiS gear and cosmetics to chase in each tier. And for the love of god just get rid of the follower table, at least for one expansion.

SL has finite BiS gear?

[Relapses]

Thesis: Systems are systems are bad for the game.

Conclusion: Agree with me that systems are systems are bad for the game so the game can return to its prior state when it was still systems on systems but I liked the game more.

[Varitok]

Given that Anima is only used to raise renown (and buy cosmetics/fund upgrades that are not necessary at all) this is true.
I can't understand how people don't get that anima is an almost completely optional system. You can play SL and just PvP all day and be content and never touch a world quest.

"Anima is an optional system"

Yet you literally need it for power to take into raids with you.

- - - Updated - - -

BFA was Legion 0.5 at most, not Legion 2.0.

He means it's just Legion 2 and SL is Legion 3.

OT: I am actually glad people are saying this. I said it back in BFA that we are going to get Samey expansions for awhile until the novelty wears off.

Unfortunately, gaming is filled with apologists and people feeling personally attacked for pointing this shit out. You get everything from "deal with it" to people who tell you to stop playing (which is the worst counter argument to make when critiquing).

[Utrrabbit]

Anima =/= AP/Azerite

Case closed.

Big difference.

AP and Azerite where tied to player power.

Anime is cosmetic. You can literally do amything without getting a single bit of anima and it does not affect your toon.

You do not evem have to do the weekly 1000 anima quest as you can get the rank mythic dungeon.

Using anima is extremely short sightes.

- - - Updated - - -

"Anima is an optional system"

Yet you literally need it for power to take into raids with you.

- - - Updated - - -



He means it's just Legion 2 and SL is Legion 3.

OT: I am actually glad people are saying this. I said it back in BFA that we are going to get Samey expansions for awhile until the novelty wears off.

Unfortunately, gaming is filled with apologists and people feeling personally attacked for pointing this shit out. You get everything from "deal with it" to people who tell you to stop playing (which is the worst counter argument to make when critiquing).

No you do not.

You can literally get the renown levels running mythic dungeons. I havent touched the quest in 4 weeks and I am at max renown.

You do not need it.

[Relapses]

Unfortunately, gaming is filled with apologists and people feeling personally attacked for pointing this shit out. You get everything from "deal with it" to people who tell you to stop playing (which is the worst counter argument to make when critiquing).

Wow dude, it's so fucking huge brain to point out that gaming development companies follow what makes their games successful instead of what random forum posters think is best for it.

[LemonDemonGirl]

BFA was Legion 0.5 at most, not Legion 2.0.

How about MoP 2.0? It had a faction war and ended with Old God stuff

I'm kind of expecting a huuuge timeskip. Like, we get out of the Shadowlands and almost everyone we knew is either dead/changed. Essentially it'd be like Classic but with the world revamped lol

[arandomuser]

yeah why would blizzard copy the legion model that was successful and had a very high engagement,
why dont they just let loot be loot, hell maybe even drop less of it so its like classic in molten core when 2 pieces dropped for 40 people! that would be a fun engaging change everyone would love


blizz trying to cater classic simps this xpac has made wow less fun
let them play their version of the game and and go back to legion engagement metrics

[Azerate]

If SL doesn't feel fresh to you then I don't know what they can do to make that happen, tbh.

[ashblond]

9.1 announcement on Blizzcon is pretty much a death sentence to wow: nothing new and exciting until end of the year.

And at this moment, I don't expect Blizzard can come with anything new and exciting anymore.

[ClassicPeon]

SNIP

There wont ever again be a version of wow that you like.

You can safely leave wow and move on with your life

[Kumorii]

9.1 announcement on Blizzcon is pretty much a death sentence to wow: nothing new and exciting until end of the year.

And at this moment, I don't expect Blizzard can come with anything new and exciting anymore.

Pretty sure wow will still be alive and well... Also, it has same content as other 9.1 patches? New zone, new raid, some system changes etc etc. Why would that kill wow this time?

[Niwes]

Big WoW player since launch, I still love this game 17 years later. Of the recent expansions the past 5+ years, I LOVED Legion, it's easily one of my fav expansions, so many cool new things to do in it, and it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever. Class Halls, and artifact appearances, specific class mounts, and Mage Tower and a new class in Demon Hunter, they created Mythic + dungeons, etc...

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.

And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests, no it's specifically shitty WoW development. I love WoW, but we're basically on the third expansion in a row that have the stupid crappy systems and same stuff again and again.

World Quests were great and exciting in Legion, then ok BfA, but now totally suck in SL. What happened to the kill one boss WQ's, instead we get these tedious and boring fill the XP bar WQ's and now they seem to take longer, one kill only gives you 1% or 2%, meaning it takes FOREVER to complete it, and by the time I hit 100% and complete the World Quest I am so freaking bored and frustrated.

And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc... Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption ( Ugh the worst ) and then the next expansion Shadowlands, they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz.

Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst. We don't need Artifact or Azerite, or Covenant gear.

I don't want to grind for AP, or Azerite or Anima.

I don't want worse World Quests that are very time consuming and just boring AF.


Is there a possibility of a new creative team or director for the next expansion? I don't want Legion 4.0 anymore, I want a fresh take on WoW, new blood to take on the reigns. Whole new thought process for the game, no more Artifact or Azerite or Covenants, but part 4 in the next expansion, please no more.

no.

reasson:
cost effective development.

means:
they invest as less as possible effort/money by makin most possible profit.

how:
by recycling (stuff in retail as well as remastered games), simple things, more polished eye catching than real content, a lot of quests, campaign, WQ (cause its cheap), good marketing, and foremost by „systems“ mostly based on UI and DB stuff, which is cheap, instead of real content.

summary:
Legion x.0 is cheap to produce while creating the imagination of content, produces a long enough feature list (Covenants, Azerite, Essences...) and keep ppl playing by the carrote on a stick. as long as this will work (it does since 3 xpacs) as long they will continue this. when SL is not even less succesful than BfA, there will be Legion 4.0, Legion 5.0 and Legion 6.0.

tldr:
they milk the cow as much as possible on a very high niveau. so: no. it will not change. not as long as this works.

- - - Updated - - -

If SL doesn't feel fresh to you then I don't know what they can do to make that happen, tbh.

what exactly is this fresh thing in SL ?

[Sanguinerd]

The world part of World of Warcraft doesn't seem to matter anymore which is imo the problem with the current devs.

The only thing that seems to matter now is whatever nonsense they can come up with to aid players doing competitive content.

[Gaidax]

Will 9th expansion finally be when random derps stop stretching shit all the way to the moon just to make yet another shitty forum thread bitching about expansion?

Probably not.