This burst has to end.

[tru]

They sure do. Doesn't change the fact that they can't burst you in 1 global outside of Convoke.

So let them free cast and wait on convoke...

[Neromius]

Yes, Convoke hits super fucking hard. It's also easy to interrupt. And if you do interrupt it, that Druid is fucked for 2 minutes.

You're just wrong. They've already done 1/2 your hp by the time you get to interrupt if you're melee and they still do great dps outside convoke.

- - - Updated - - -

So... You weren't paying attention and died with war mode on and then made a post complaining about it. Okay then.



It's a 4 second channel and the hardest any single spell can hit is like 18k, so no, he wasn't one shot.

Sounds like someone needs to actually sub and play before they act like they know.

[Rucati]

Sounds like someone needs to actually sub and play before they act like they know.

I'm literally 2500 this season in 3s... Perhaps you need to learn how to play before you make stupid statements.

[cparle87]

if it was only convoke. I got 31% versa and got an 18k hit from a ret paladin lately. not to forget their ridiculous self heal. pvp is simply out of control. and it is time to exploit classes. everyone has everything that others have. absorbs, last stands and so on.

Why do people keep talking about their versatility as if it matters? If you have 31% versatility that means you have a 15.5% damage reduction. That means that the attacker only needs 15.5% versatility themselves to make yours completely nullified from a defensive standpoint. I get that it helps, but not nearly as much as people seem to thinkit does.

[Neromius]

I'm literally 2500 this season in 3s... Perhaps you need to learn how to play before you make stupid statements.

I can do those things independently of each other thank you very much.

Spells hit harder than 18k. Either pull your head out or stop knowingly lying.

[Rucati]

I can do those things independently of each other thank you very much.

Spells hit harder than 18k. Either pull your head out or stop knowingly lying.

The only spells that hit harder than 18k are Full Moon (Which doesn't proc from Convoke in PvP), Templar's Verdict, which is a Ret Paladin ability and Condemn which is a Warrior skill. So sure, some spells do hit harder than 18k, but it isn't any of the spells that are relevant to this current discussion.

[Faesroll]

if it was only convoke. I got 31% versa and got an 18k hit from a ret paladin lately. not to forget their ridiculous self heal. pvp is simply out of control. and it is time to exploit classes. everyone has everything that others have. absorbs, last stands and so on.

which is very telegraphed, for templars to do 18k damage you need have wings up, trinket, seraphim, he has to hit you wtih divine toll first for the mastery buff and final reckoning. If all of those go off without you noticing and using a defensive, thats on you.

[Spyda580]

which is very telegraphed, for templars to do 18k damage you need have wings up, trinket, seraphim, he has to hit you wtih divine toll first for the mastery buff and final reckoning. If all of those go off without you noticing and using a defensive, thats on you.

I know right, it's not like he can do all those things while you are blinded by Blinding Light, which doesn't break to holy damage?

- - - Updated - - -

The only spells that hit harder than 18k are Full Moon (Which doesn't proc from Convoke in PvP), Templar's Verdict, which is a Ret Paladin ability and Condemn which is a Warrior skill. So sure, some spells do hit harder than 18k, but it isn't any of the spells that are relevant to this current discussion.

Meteor entered the chat. Also, I'm pretty sure that shooting out two 18k Starsurges 0.3 sec apart from eachother while you are GCD locked counts as a oneshot.

[Rucati]

Meteor entered the chat. Also, I'm pretty sure that shooting out two 18k Starsurges 0.3 sec apart from eachother while you are GCD locked counts as a oneshot.

Meteor doesn't hit anywhere near 18k. And Starsurge caps at like 15k, and two of them won't kill you. Hell, even if it hits for 18k two of them won't kill you since we're at like 40k health now. You'll always have time to react, just need to be paying attention.

[TheAld]

So... You weren't paying attention and died with war mode on and then made a post complaining about it. Okay then.



It's a 4 second channel and the hardest any single spell can hit is like 18k, so no, he wasn't one shot.

Stop trying to defend it lmao, it's one ability. The dude was one shot man, what are you arguing it for? It's like saying a Ret paladin getting multiple Judgment procs doesn't count as one ability because the ability has multiple damage components involved. Or a shaman getting a windfury proc in classic and deleting someone (even worse since it's passive), or an elemental shaman getting multiple procs of their mastery on a lava burst. One ability, one button press, one shot. Except the druid situation is the worst of them all, because it doesn't rely on RNG. It's a 2-minute cooldown.

[Speedlance]

Worst part about pvp is the insane amount of cc and interrupts and heals. If it wasnt for that we would'nt need spells that do 18k or 20k etc.
Remove cc, reduce heals by 50% and it would be fun to pvp in wow.

[Anuibus]

Meteor doesn't hit anywhere near 18k. And Starsurge caps at like 15k, and two of them won't kill you. Hell, even if it hits for 18k two of them won't kill you since we're at like 40k health now. You'll always have time to react, just need to be paying attention.

I've been starsurge crit for 27k. Warriors can literally do nothing against convoke unless they pop it right in your face and you instantly interrupt them. Spell reflect only hits 1 of 16 spells, 30% damage reduction via DBTS or Enraged Regeneration isn't enough, and both heroic leap and storm bolt aren't fast enough. If they get lucky and convoke casts multiple starsurges off the rip, you die. Nothing some classes can do about it.

[Rucati]

Stop trying to defend it lmao, it's one ability. The dude was one shot man, what are you arguing it for? It's like saying a Ret paladin getting multiple Judgment procs doesn't count as one ability because the ability has multiple damage components involved. Or a shaman getting a windfury proc in classic and deleting someone (even worse since it's passive), or an elemental shaman getting multiple procs of their mastery on a lava burst. One ability, one button press, one shot. Except the druid situation is the worst of them all, because it doesn't rely on RNG. It's a 2-minute cooldown.

Except a one shot implies you have no time to react. You always have time to react to Convoke. If you aren't paying attention and die in 2 seconds that's your fault, not the game's. If a skill did 1 damage per second to you and killed you over the course of an hour would you say that's a one shot ability? It's only one button click, but somehow I don't think you'd complain.

Also you just said Convoke doesn't rely on RNG which means you likely don't even play the game, so I have no idea why you're here commenting honestly.

[OokOok]

So im just running by some balance druid ganking somebody else or what do I know - Was going to world quest.

So anyway I get close to the heat, like 20 yards and apparently the druid has popped convoke...Im of course full health, 30.7k hp...and BOOM! Dead in what felt like 2 sec's, could not even react - Saw a starfall hit, and then next second I just dropped. Scary part is he wasn't even targeting me, and I was not even close to him.

I have played since classic - N E V E R have I gotten killed like that - Running on my mount, full health and getting killed in 2 sec's. Wish I had OBS running. Im used to getting ganked in rogues in 4 sec's through stuns, aka killed before stuns ends, but this was new...

Seriously, are pvperes, aka not a player like me, even enjoying this? Last time I took PvP more serious was like in TBC or wotlk, and its not like I want mana-war 22 mins long arena fights, but this is silly =/

Liar, no one who actually played Vanilla(It's called Vanilla.....saying you played since CLASSIC is basically saying you played since 2019 btw) would say "I've never gotten killed like that" Vanilla was full of warlocks and pyro mages 1 shotting people all day. Every expansion has had times where specific classes are able to one shot people, INFACT in several expansions warrior was the one 1 shotting people in pvp. It's not unique to this expansion stop crying because you're on the other end of it. Would you be calling for nerfs if your class was doing that to others? no. Started in classic lul

[Noctiphobia]

Well it is specially silly in Torghast where several powers boost Convoke. If i get some of them, the endboss dies within a convoke easily. I see those 50k full moons flying on the boss and i know i just did 400k damage in 3sec.

The pvp version is already nerfed and still insane. At least it has some counterplay because of interrupts etc..

Wait until you meet a protection paladin with boomkin, where the paladin gives a bubble to the boomkin, so your "counterplay" is hoping you can LoS a part of convoke or stack with your partner and hope it splits the damage evenly.

[melzas]

Wait until you meet a protection paladin with boomkin, where the paladin gives a bubble to the boomkin, so your "counterplay" is hoping you can LoS a part of convoke or stack with your partner and hope it splits the damage evenly.

Or... Use your defensives? Shocker I know. Pain sup, bubble, cloak, iceblock, survi instincts....

[Noctiphobia]

Or... Use your defensives? Shocker I know. Pain sup, bubble, cloak, iceblock, survi instincts....

Yeah, I forgot that every class in this game has defensives that can survive a full convoke, while also probably being stunned/silenced. Sorry, not everyone plays holy pala.

[melzas]

Yeah, I forgot that every class in this game has defensives that can survive a full convoke, while also probably being stunned/silenced. Sorry, not everyone plays holy pala.

Yes literally every class has defensives that will make you survive full convoke. Also you have medallion trinket that has same cd as convoke so you don't have to ever sit in stun for it.

On top of it, immunity angel from prot Pala can be cc'ed which stops immunity.

Stop making lame excuses lol.

[Tojara]

I think what's lost on people is that convoke does 4 spells per second over 4 seconds, at random. Depending on the range between all available targets, what spells are currently active on available targets (having star fall going makes it less likely for it to cast star fall, same as your dots already being applied) and what the health of you or your allies are will determine what spells it draws upon. The only caveat here is that it likes to use spells based on your current specialization and form.

'Just interrupt it' is a really short sighted answer in most arena games given what the ability does. While in reality no single ability has the potential to one shot you from convoke (even when full moon was available in the first two months to draw from in the pool, critting for high 20k to low 30k), it doesn't mean that the ability isn't still stupid. Not only do you have to hold a stop for the inevitable convoke (which isn't a good position to be in), but the ability can still do over 30k damage in less than a GCD. That's what's stupid about it, and I have many death logs from arena around the ~2100-2200 level where myself or my teammate will be sitting at around 80% health, only to die to two star surge critical strikes that fire in less than 1 second of convoke channeling. If the spell was structured a bit differently in PvP where the strongest abilities took place after the first couple seconds it would likely fix a lot of the problems with the ability.

On the balance front it's also fairly disingenuous to claim the class has nothing outside of convoke, which just isn't true. They have access to pretty good goes every minute or less, just by banking astral power and dumping it as soon as they enter a solar/lunar eclipse. It's not hard to bank resources when dots are okay pressure on their own and you get instant cast spells to help enter lunar eclipse. Between those goes they're probably one of the most disruptive classes available, while having access to fairly good survival tools by simply sitting in bear form. The fact that the conduit designed for bears (the auto frenzy regen) just gives you a free frenzies regen without even forcing you to sit in bear form is kind of dumb too, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's an oversight by Blizzard.

Not saying balance needs to be nerfed all that much, but saying that they do nothing outside of convoke is fucking retarded and simply untrue. They off-heal great, peel great, and they don't need to sit and wait to press convoke to win.

If you want another example of a dumb class currently in arena, look at retribution paladins. An AoE blind on a 90 second CD that doesn't break on holy damage. If you're smart about not auto attacking, you can literally blind, divine toll, final reckoning, and then use a templars verdict. All of those abilities do pure holy damage, meaning that it's effectively like killing somebody in a sap that doesn't break. You could absolutely trinket the blind, however doing that leaves you open to a 6 second HoJ. It's super obvious that they're going to do it, but like I mentioned, you either sit the blind and hope he doesn't crit that much, or you trinket it only to sit in a HoJ.

All of that said PvP is better sped up than eternal slogs into dampening. Might seem like a lot of QQ above, but you can maintain the relative power of those specs without nerfing them into the ground. Why blinding light doesn't have a damage threshold (like blinding sleet for frost DKs, is beyond me), and why convoke can potentially shit out a bunch of star surges in the first second of the ability is also perplexing.

One shots in the truest sense of the word aren't really happening though. Doesn't take away from the discussion point that some combos are too strong, or too easy to setup though. It's like arguing with taste for blood warriors in MoP claiming that their combo wasn't really a one shot. In reality while true, the combination was a super juiced heroic strike (that wasn't on the global), combined with another ability.

[Eazy]

32,5k hp, 24% vers here

Got killed in a matter of 2 second by Retribution paladin burst (Verdict 12k + multiple judgements each for 7k).

But I wouldn't make a thread about that myself, I know that PvP isnt balanced in 1v1 scenarios... and usually my healer is pretty good and know when to use his CDs on arena. I know what are you writing about, but the "I died in <5 sec" isn't a problem when you're playing with equally skilled people. Burst is much higher than before and I totally agree.