Realistic portrayal of the Alliance within World of Warcraft

[Magical Mudcrab]

Anduin wouldn't of been able to inherit the High King title. Because that's a military rank, bestowed upon Varian by a count between the Alliance's leaders.

We don't need to go any further than here for the Alliance. Hereditary titles are a thing and were often associated with the military (i.e.: Shogun is likely one of the most well known). The only faction that might take issue with this would be the Night Elves, as the Dwarves, Gnomes, Void Elves, and Gilneans would all have longstanding ties with the Alliance (the Void Elves with the first Grand Alliance) and would understand the process, the Pandaren would not care, and the Draenei would probably be OK with it as Anduin has a close relationship with Velen.

[onesBronson]

As much as we're still unsure of the point of the title of high king, the factions aren't gonna break down simply because everyone and their grandmother is stronger in battle than Anduin. The game is called "Warcraft" for a reason. None of the individual races within the alliance would last by themselves against the entirety of the horde. Their individual militaristic might just isn't cut out for defending themselves like that. Thats how Gilneas fell, and now Teldrassil. Without the full might or combined forces of the entire alliance, civilizations end up falling and being destroyed.

Weather we like it or not, this is the current state of how each faction takes after themselves now.

[Raisei]

Anduin wouldn't of been able to inherit the High King title. Because that's a military rank, bestowed upon Varian by a count between the Alliance's leaders.
If this was actually real, the Dwarves would've either cut themselves off from the Alliance, the Night Elves wouldn't co-operate with the Humans anymore, Genn would focus on trying to reclaim Gilneas, the Gnomes would side with the Dwarves because Anduin being named High King would just reek of corruption. He's just a boy, not fit to rule the Alliance as a military leader.

Of course the title isn't hereditary. But apparently no one else wanted it and most of the Alliance leaders seem to be fine with Anduin's lead. Especially since Genn, Jaina and Velen council him. It's not like Anduin claimed the title by force. On the contrary he was seen as a symbol of hope for the Alliance after the disaster of the Broken Shore and thus they made him the High King pretty much off-screen. And he is not a bad choice at all. He is smart, kind, selfless and has a strong drive for justice, sure he doesn't have the military experience, but so what. That is what you have advisors for.

Why you think this would make all the other races abandon the Alliance, is incomprehensible to me. The Alliance is not just an alliance of necessity, most races are in it, because they want to and many racial leaders have positive bonds with Anduin personally. Moira more or less owes her life to him, Genn obviously sees him as a second son after Liam was murdered and he is Velen's favourite student.

I think you are mixing this up with the Horde where the members actually hate each other but stick together because they fear the Alliance would otherwise wipe them out for their crimes.

It is also in no small part Anduin that is responsible for making the Alliance what it is today. When Varian came back he was a complete hard-ass and barely wanted any contact with the other races, he especially hated Genn. It was Anduin's influence that made him a softer and a good leader. The boy was and is wise beyond his years and most of the Alliance knows this.

Obviously the leaders of the races besides Humans would look very, very weak towards their people. They would think that their leaders are weak, that they don't care about them. That they bow down before the Humans. The races of non humans would revolt against their leaders.

Following a King that has always put the lifes of his people first and prefers peace over war does not make the racial leaders weak and it most certainly does not amount to the subjects being neglected. That is the opposite of what it means actually. Also the hierachy in the Alliance has never been as enforced as you make it sound. The racial leaders are treated as respected friends not as subjects that are required to bow to the High King.

Contrary to this the Horde racial leaders as well as everyone else were literally enslaved by the Warchief before the Blood Oath was abolished. Yet there was only revolting when the Warchiefs went insane.

The Humans, as a side note, are culturally taking over the Alliance as some sort of Imperialistic government. The state that every race is donned in Stormwind armor tells enough.

If we were really realistic, the Elves wouldn't allow themselves to get governed by a Human. But that ship has sailed.

Why not? The High Elves have been part of the Alliance of Lordaeron for decades. And again, I feel you are mixing up Horde and Alliance, despite stating it correctly above. The High King does not govern other races, that is what the leaders do. The High King is a military leader and makes decisions that are important for the Alliance as a whole, he does not interfere with the day to day buisness of say the Night Elves.
On the other side, in the Horde, the Blood Oath gave the Warchief absolute power. He or she could even name the new racial leaders, a power the High King most definately does not possess.

Anyway, let's say Anduin wouldn't have been able to be High King. His kingdom, his lords would've already tried to usurp him by the point of the battle for Lordaeron, as he is weak military wise and weak physically wise (it's canon that Anduin SUCKS as a sword fighter, even his warrior of a father gave up on him). He doesn't interact with the Lords and nobels of Stormwind anymore, hell Varian didn't either after WotLK. It's like they all died or something.

1) The Battle of Lordaeron wasn't planned by Anduin alone. He is smart enough to rely on advice from people with centuries and millenia more experience. None of those expected Sylvanas to blight her own home and her own people, even though they should have.

2) Anduin can mind control people, has single-handedly killed a Dread Lord, revived an entire battlefield of Soldiers and even held back the Jailer for a short time. But because he isn't great at swinging a sword he is weak? Kay. Dalaran is obviously a (flying) city of weaklings then.

3) The nobles are responsible for the Defias incident and thus the death of Anduin's mother. Wonder why he doesn't interact with them more... also they barely seem to exist.

Ah but, I forgot. This IS Blizzard. I forgot that, they don't do those storylines anymore. Nope, only Marvel-esque storytelling allowed here. Something something writers and twitter something. You know the deal.

Only fictional storylines of extraterrestial threats are allowed here. No infighting allowed, unless you faction is the Horde.

It's becoming a bit clearer now. In short, you are jealous that the Alliance is a pretty stable organisation for the past several years and despite disagreements sticks together, while the Horde keeps going into Civil War every two years because a new Warchief has been revealed to be insane, with halve of the Horde loving it and the other hating it.

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So he literally went from a cripple to a powerful god like being deity in just a few expansions? Sounds mary sueish

When was he ever a cripple? Okay apart from the short recovery when he was just nearly killed by Garrosh, but he has always been in fine physical shape. And none of his powers came from nowhere.
He studied with the Priests in SW then with Velen. He is considered a prodigy in using the Light by both. Think about what that means. A twenty-thousand year old Draenei Priest considers Anduin a prodigy... He was already Mind Controling people during Pandaria where he was what, 13-14?

I think you just want to hate him and try to make up excuses by this point.

[Aleksej89]

If anything about the alliance made even a bit of sense they would have genocided the orcs after the events of war1/2 and most of alliance problems since then would never have happened.

Instead blizzard forces alliance to have some forgive fetish where every so often they will choose to yet again let horde exist despite being in a position to eliminate or permanently cripple them.

[Raisei]

Those are at utmost diplomatic skills, which he doesn't seem very good at with Garrosh and the whole divine bell thing.
As the above comment pointed out, that one crippled him and it was CANONICALLY stated that he would never recover from it and that it would get worse as he aged.

So because Garrosh was insane (plus under the influence of the Sha) and could not be reasoned with, that is somehow Anduins failure?

And yes, he will be suffering the aftereffects of that for the rest of his life, but that hardly makes him a cripple.

[nonameelf]

Draenei specifically join the Alliance for help against the Legion. Time comes to fight the Legion and the Alliance is like "Best I can do is randomly attacking the Horde for no reason in Stormheim."

And then the draenei just go on being Alliance and never mention it.

Realistically, the draenei would be absolutely fucking pissed.

[VladlTutushkin]

As much as we're still unsure of the point of the title of high king, the factions aren't gonna break down simply because everyone and their grandmother is stronger in battle than Anduin. The game is called "Warcraft" for a reason. None of the individual races within the alliance would last by themselves against the entirety of the horde. Their individual militaristic might just isn't cut out for defending themselves like that. Thats how Gilneas fell, and now Teldrassil. Without the full might or combined forces of the entire alliance, civilizations end up falling and being destroyed.

Weather we like it or not, this is the current state of how each faction takes after themselves now.

You just pointed out a problem - Alliance did jack shit to help the night elves retake their land, shirking their allied obligations of protecting each other. Also the sole reason horde won there is because whole night elven army was on the move to Silithus ON ALLIANCE MISSION. When they could have stayed and defended their nation.

[Hellobolis]

Anduin wouldn't of been able to inherit the High King title. Because that's a military rank, bestowed upon Varian by a count between the Alliance's leaders.

That's like saying countries will leave NATO because the US is always in charge.

[VladlTutushkin]

That's like saying countries will leave NATO because the US is always in charge.

Thing is - Anduin is not US , he is far worse as a leader and generally sucks since he is a pacifist leading a military block.

[Dimmak]

Anduin is followed because he holds a certain charismatic and diplomatic presence from action and word. As a boy he willingly put himself in danger to try and stop the war in MOP. Even before that the people loved him. He was the child of a commoner and the last king of the allied lands. Remeber that Gilneas was thought lost and Lorderan was in shambles. Even Altilrac was in shambles. Only Storming stood.

Moreover Anduin constantly played the diplomat. He quelled Genns recklessness, he put Tyrande and Malfurian in the politically difficult position of providing them refugee status along with the Gilneans. He grew up visiting Ironworks building strong relationships. He gifted relics back to the dwarves showing respect to their culture.

We know his affinity of the loghtbia so strong the Velen wanted him as his protégé which cements the Drenei.

Anduin has a powerful advisory council of past heroes. The people trust him and he doesn't sacrifice people for power on conquer.

As to the title of High King, clearly that title has changed under Varian. The tactical King who literally gave his soul and body to save people during Legion. But it cannot be missed that Anduin tempered him and that gets noticed.

Finally while anduin isn't a great fighter, he is powerful. Literally mass resurrecting his troops in combat. That one move is probably retold among the alliance and the horde and then elaborated over and over. Look at his armor, and pretty much everything else he does is symbolic hardening to Arthurian legends.

So I say Anduin is about the only person in the alliance that everyone would rally around. Even now he follows in his father's footsteps being captured by the enemy and forced into a combat he does not want.

[VladlTutushkin]

Anduin is followed because he holds a certain charismatic and diplomatic presence from action and word. As a boy he willingly put himself in danger to try and stop the war in MOP. Even before that the people loved him. He was the child of a commoner and the last king of the allied lands. Remeber that Gilneas was thought lost and Lorderan was in shambles. Even Altilrac was in shambles. Only Storming stood.

Moreover Anduin constantly played the diplomat. He quelled Genns recklessness, he put Tyrande and Malfurian in the politically difficult position of providing them refugee status along with the Gilneans. He grew up visiting Ironworks building strong relationships. He gifted relics back to the dwarves showing respect to their culture.

We know his affinity of the loghtbia so strong the Velen wanted him as his protégé which cements the Drenei.

Anduin has a powerful advisory council of past heroes. The people trust him and he doesn't sacrifice people for power on conquer.

As to the title of High King, clearly that title has changed under Varian. The tactical King who literally gave his soul and body to save people during Legion. But it cannot be missed that Anduin tempered him and that gets noticed.

Finally while anduin isn't a great fighter, he is powerful. Literally mass resurrecting his troops in combat. That one move is probably retold among the alliance and the horde and then elaborated over and over. Look at his armor, and pretty much everything else he does is symbolic hardening to Arthurian legends.

So I say Anduin is about the only person in the alliance that everyone would rally around. Even now he follows in his father's footsteps being captured by the enemy and forced into a combat he does not want.

He also willingly throws away lives of a "suicide army" and "lets the trolls grieve" while not pushing Alliance advantage on Zandalar and generally seemingly wants peace no matter how many lives will be lost BECAUSE of it. Yes, his pacifism kills as many as Sylvanas warmongering.

[Flurryfang]

I still think it is odd, that the Alliance have so much unity around Anduin when they, as a racial faction, are even more different and divided than the Horde is at many times.

Again, when it comes to the Alliance, where are the councils, the nobles, the people of importance who debate and keep Anduin by the throne. In the Horde, it is very much might-makes-right, but what is it in the Alliance? Follow-the-Wrynn-no-matter-what? O.o

With Anduin gone into the Shadowlands, WoW could really use a good old school change of goverment in the Alliance, where the races rethink what faction is without the Wrynn kings.

[Hellobolis]

Thing is - Anduin is not US , he is far worse as a leader and generally sucks since he is a pacifist leading a military block.

US presidents/governments vary a lot in their pacifism/warmongering too. nobody just leaves NATO over that.

at the end us the day the US/humans are the majority contributors to NATO/the alliance by a significant margin, and that simply comes with significant influence over the alliance.

(and ofc if push comes to shove: all the members know damn well they can't go it alone.)

[VladlTutushkin]

US presidents/governments vary a lot in their pacifism/warmongering too. nobody just leaves NATO over that.

at the end us the day the US/humans are the majority contributors to NATO/the alliance by a significant margin, and that simply comes with significant influence over the alliance.

And they allowed one of the members tates be essentially dismantled, occupied, genocided and still havent retaken its land. And that was not a small member either. If i were other members of the Alliance i would think of - who will humans sacrifice in the name of their peace next?

[Flurryfang]

And they allowed one of the members tates be essentially dismantled, occupied, genocided and still havent retaken its land. And that was not a small member either. If i were other members of the Alliance i would think of - who will humans sacrifice in the name of their peace next?

What land are you refering to?

[Hellobolis]

And they allowed one of the members tates be essentially dismantled, occupied, genocided and still havent retaken its land. And that was not a small member either. If i were other members of the Alliance i would think of - who will humans sacrifice in the name of their peace next?

what's left of the tree to retake? and didn't they win both darkshore and arathi?

elfs are funny though, lorewise they definitly are a tiny tiny faction. (they've gotten genocided like 5 times ay this point afterall, and have very low birthrates on top of that), yet whenever convenient they can just pull huge armies out of their plothole.

fun fact: the tree had 3x fewer people living in it than stratholme, and that's just one of dozens of human cities that have been genocided.

[Raisei]

You just pointed out a problem - Alliance did jack shit to help the night elves retake their land, shirking their allied obligations of protecting each other. Also the sole reason horde won there is because whole night elven army was on the move to Silithus ON ALLIANCE MISSION. When they could have stayed and defended their nation.

This blatantly missrepresenting the situation to make the actors look worse then they are.

Anduins decision about not retaking Darkshore immediatedly was a very sound one. There was nothing to be gained from it. Teldrassil was burned to the ground, everyone is dead already. Spending more lives to reclaim this ruin out of sentimentality is just an emotional reflex and not a good military decision, especially since we now know that the NE did not even stay there to rebuild, they just wanted revenge.
While this is totally understandable and I fully support Tyrande chopping them all to little bits, it was just the wrong time to use sparse recources purely for revenge when it was obvious that Sylvanas' war was only beginning. All Anduin asked for was some patience from Tyrande. Unfortunately she did not learn what that is even after 10000 years. Even after already falling on her face with freeing Illidan. Even after almost dying to Garrosh.
Again I understand her urge for revenge and I still want the Horde to pay, but Anduin's decision was for the good of the living members of the Alliance and that is exactly the decision a High King should make.
The funny thing is that when he offered her a chance at revenge on Sylvanas, she was nowhere to be found. Maybe with the Nightwarrior at the gates of Orgrimmar the Banshee would not have been able to poof away?

As for the second point, you are completely ignoring the fact that Sylvanas did everything possible to make it look like her army was going to Sillithus to grab the newly discovered Azerite. She staged little infights between Saurfang and Nathanos for the spies, spread misinformation and only told 2 other people where the army was going literally until they arrived at Darkshore.
The Alliance was simply outplayed there. All of it. Not defending the Azerite wasn't an option since everyone assumed Sylvanas would turn it into weapons of mass destruction to be used against the Alliance (which she later did of course), and she knew that they expected this from her, so she played along to trick them. No one in the Alliance saw that coming. Not the grizzled veteran Genn, not the 10000-year old leader of the Nightelves, not the 20000 year old Draenei and least of all the unexprienced King. Putting them blame for that on Anduin is simply unfair.

[Flurryfang]

what's left of the tree to retake? and didn't they win both darkshore and arathi?

elfs are funny though, lorewise they definitly are a tiny tiny faction. (they've gotten genocided like 5 times ay this point afterall, and have very low birthrates on top of that), yet whenever convenient they can just pull huge armies out of their plothole.

fun fact: the tree had 3x fewer people living in it than stratholme, and that's just one of dozens of human cities that have been genocided.

I think lorewise, Tyrande and Malfurion pretty much took Darkshore by themselves. The entire Night Warrior thing is supposed to be so overpowered, that the Horde did not stand a chance after that.

[VladlTutushkin]

What land are you refering to?

The "resource basket" horde was chomping on the bit to take for literal years or decades already? Ashenvale. Its not just "Eh, we dont care about stoopid elfz land, only hoomans matter" but a matter of horde gobbling it down and getting all the resources they ever wanted. And somehow i dont think that this is a good scenario for Alliance.

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This blatantly missrepresenting the situation to make the actors look worse then they are.

Anduins decision about not retaking Darkshore immediatedly was a very sound one. There was nothing to be gained from it. Teldrassil was burned to the ground, everyone is dead already. Spending more lives to reclaim this ruin out of sentimentality is just an emotional reflex and not a good military decision, especially since we now know that the NE did not even stay there to rebuild, they just wanted revenge.
While this is totally understandable and I fully support Tyrande chopping them all to little bits, it was just the wrong time to use sparse recources purely for revenge when it was obvious that Sylvanas' war was only beginning. All Anduin asked for was some patience from Tyrande. Unfortunately she did not learn what that is even after 10000 years. Even after already falling on her face with freeing Illidan. Even after almost dying to Garrosh.
Again I understand her urge for revenge and I still want the Horde to pay, but Anduin's decision was for the good of the living members of the Alliance and that is exactly the decision a High King should make.
The funny thing is that when he offered her a chance at revenge on Sylvanas, she was nowhere to be found. Maybe with the Nightwarrior at the gates of Orgrimmar the Banshee would not have been able to poof away?

As for the second point, you are completely ignoring the fact that Sylvanas did everything possible to make it look like her army was going to Sillithus to grab the newly discovered Azerite. She staged little infights between Saurfang and Nathanos for the spies, spread misinformation and only told 2 other people where the army was going literally until they arrived at Darkshore.
The Alliance was simply outplayed there. All of it. Not defending the Azerite wasn't an option since everyone assumed Sylvanas would turn it into weapons of mass destruction to be used against the Alliance (which she later did of course), and she knew that they expected this from her, so she played along to trick them. No one in the Alliance saw that coming. Not the grizzled veteran Genn, not the 10000-year old leader of the Nightelves, not the 20000 year old Draenei and least of all the unexprienced King. Putting them blame for that on Anduin is simply unfair.

And he havent even used his "unmatched political genius" to make Horde give up Ashenvale since now its THEIR LAND if not stated otherwise in peace treaty. So he gave up land that wasnt even his to give.

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what's left of the tree to retake? and didn't they win both darkshore and arathi?

elfs are funny though, lorewise they definitly are a tiny tiny faction. (they've gotten genocided like 5 times ay this point afterall, and have very low birthrates on top of that), yet whenever convenient they can just pull huge armies out of their plothole.

fun fact: the tree had 3x fewer people living in it than stratholme, and that's just one of dozens of human cities that have been genocided.

As i already mentioned - Ashenvale is not retaken yet. Plus i am not arguing about humans having it easy, but making those "peaces" with the Horde never worked and never will work and will get more people killed down the line when they throw another "surprise genocide" at Alliance.

[bagina]

It's not news that Alliance means humans and their cocksleeves and designated cannon fodder for when the story needs a big happening to establish a new threat but doesn't want to sacrifice humans. Nuff said