Will the 9th expansion finally be fresh and not Legon 3.0?

[Gurahk]

Legon what?
Legondese nuts lmao

[erifwodahs]

Purpose of the game is to have fun.
The majority of the players had tons of fun without ever having to grind gear or even entering raids.
Developing your characters is a stable of every RPG but doing it by grinding ilvl/AP is the lamest most unimaginative way of doing it.

This is what it used to be, not what it is currently. You can clearly see this in Classic, you will see that in Classic TBC - power progression is the main goal now, after that you go for parses/speed. Any power progression can be boiled down either to - some level grinding or equipment grinding. Call it what you will - paragon levels, skill point grind or "tier D, C, A, S" items, grade 2,3,4 items and so on it's all the same just looks differently.
Most MMORPGs are just too big or not big enough to be good at everything - they can't do something really good and not upset some part of the player base - I.E hard content only for hard core players - casuals quit, interesting class design? competitive side suffers due to impossible balance (yes, wow is quite balanced, even if meta is 5-15% better than non meta), Interesting, deep and meaningful character progression? Wrong choices has to exist and some people will come out weaker because of what they did, plus alt characters suffer greatly, even then predetermined bis routes will become a thing so it does not matter if you get to choose lvl 100 talent just because you are level 100 or you choose it by doing one out of 3 possible questlines. You will have the same outcome, just by doing that you have alienated most of your player base.
I think OSRS is really good at what it want's to be besides bonds being sold for money which is like WoW token, but worse because you can literally buy best gear in game but it is niche in the gaming world, most of players there play because it has it's distinct identity. And in the end everyone would still be the same - same items, same skills, same quests done, it's just that OSRS is the ultimate "travel to the end" game.

[Yuli]

Good job addressing all his concerns, he didn't complain about anything else.
OH WAIT

Shows that he has no clue what he's talking 'bout.

[Steelangel]

For example I want to have ZERO solo activites that give player power that is otherwise unobtainable. I also want them to respect my playtime and not deliberately make traveling and many other trivial and uninteresting things slower than they took in the past.

Every activity in Shadowlands can be done as a group. This includes Torghast.

What is "trivial and uninteresting" for you is not to someone else. Maybe it's just that you really just want your purples and not have to engage with the game world anymore.

[Greyvax]

This might be the worst iteration of world quests ever invented.

[TheFirstOnes]

"they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz." Covenants are just Order Halls, and Soul Binds are just the Artifact talent system, but less broken, and with arguably a little more options. The conduits are also easier to get, and you only need Renown to upgrade your soul binds.

Nothing is nuked there. WQ's also don't matter anymore, outside of Callings.

SL is not (Legion 3.0) either. Idk what you're talking about. BFA was definitely not Legion 2.0 either. Must everything that targets the cosmic chart somehow be "LEGION 2-3.0 HURR"? Cause that's the worst way to think. They're not even similar, system wise.

SL is more so akin to Cata or MoP tbh.

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Yes, 1K anima is still anima farming.

And Yes, it is same as AP in Legion/BFA, very easy to catch up.

I don't think you quite understand just how bad the BFA/Legion AP grind truly was. Cause Anima "grinding" is literally easy as fuck to do.

Here's what you do, no fucking cap. Kill the world boss, then do LFR. That's literally a free completed renown quest.

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Just do that, complete your 1k Anima quest, then wait till next week to continue your renown Anima quest shit till you reach Renown 40. That's it. AP Grinding was so much fucking worse...

[Simple Rick]

Thats literally opposite. I don't get anima from content I enjoy. I did get azerite from content i enjoyed.

And miss again, I did raid mythic. I simply knew math that farming azerite isn't necessairy for that 0.3%. It may have been needed for like top50 world guilds, not the rest.

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And this is exactly what i call "blizzard fooled people prime example". Anima behaves like AP for first 1000 a week. Literally cap azerite acquisition to 1000 per week, convert rest of rewards for that week once you reach 1000 to resources = same system. With the exception you get measly amounts from dungeons and raids now.

Well define doing mythic... Did you clear the raid in two months?

There is a lot a wiggle room between mythic progression and if you arrived to the expansion or even patch cycle late odds are you grinded ap through trivial content.

[Lynkeus]

no /10char

[RobertMugabe]

In some way I agree that SL still feels like Legion in many ways, however Anima is not the same as AP. It is almost entirely optional after several days of playing (when you unlock high enough renown to fully unlock your soulbinds).

Honestly, I am mostly already bored of SL's world and aesthetics. I have much preferred BfA's zones and aesthetics. Unfortunately that was ruined by this whole champion of azeroth nonsense and basically the gameplay itself sucked. What SL did very well though is PVP. It's at its best right now since MoP IMO.

[Thirtyrock]

The issue is simply two things:

WORLD QUESTS and NO VISIBLE PROGRESSION!

World quests are the issue we have with WoW right now: Since they introduced World quests, we don't have quests that distinct from each other: Instead we just have world quests with 4-5 factions, and the zone you are in you need to do the same crap over and over and over again.

Instead of having distinguished questhubs that allows you to do other things like cloud serpend quests or netherwing and so on, it's just about talking head says this, talking head says that. An weekly some new Artefact/War Campaign/Convenant quests. That's all of it.

Having no quest hub where you can interact or having something that distinguish each other or allow you to simply do something different makes the game so boring as it is. MoP was maybe not everyones taste, but there was really so much different to do that's not tied to player power that actually made fun, and no, torghast is not it, since you can't progress in it from it. You will not get stronger from playing torgast; only when you do something else. And there is simply no progression.

And World Quests are the fault of it.

The fun story is that Legion was only so good BECAUSE you had in Suramar an dedicated quest hub, yes, there were world quests too, but you needed to do different things, there were so much hidden items, so much player progression, you could see in so many things you did a PROGRESSION, and we had NOTHING of it in BfA or Shadowlands.

There is no real progression in it: yes, you can unlock certain things, but the progression is simply not there, at least not in a way Suramar had it.

Let's see the most memorable patches and expansions we had for the open world:

1.9 We don't really need to say anything about AQ-Prequest: people can actually contribute and have again a visible progression server wide.
2.4; one of the best patches; we had an visible Player progression server wide.
MoP: we had an player progression through the farm, but also through cloud serpent quests and so on.
5.2; one of the best patches, we had an visible Player progression server wide. And we got to kill a lot of trolls, always a big winner.
WoD: yes, it sounds crazy, and they cut a lot of things, but beside that after the Release it was actually fun, the Garrison was fun, because you had what: visible player progression in the world. the issue was that because there were no new content and because they didn't improved it at all, it went downhill and the shit is now.
Legion: Suramar: one of the best zones ever, we had an visible player progression in the quest hub: you go in the quest hub, it is a dusty old cavern, it seems so dead and unused and more and more you can see how much better it goes.

Everything that don't exist anymore. Yes Legion introduced world quests, but it also introduced pvp world quests (never used after legion), and many things more.

And that's the issue both with BfA and Shadowlands: World Quests that doesn't add anything as another talking head that says what you need to do and no visible progression.

The only tangible difference between WQs & dailies is how you get the quest and that WQs tend to be more spread out.
With dailies, you were doing 3-5 per zone in a specific area, receiving the quest from a quest giver.
With WQs you do 3-5 per zone in a specific zone, receiving the quest by moving to the area.

[Dire]

Big WoW player since launch, I still love this game 17 years later. Of the recent expansions the past 5+ years, I LOVED Legion, it's easily one of my fav expansions, so many cool new things to do in it, and it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever. Class Halls, and artifact appearances, specific class mounts, and Mage Tower and a new class in Demon Hunter, they created Mythic + dungeons, etc...

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.

And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests, no it's specifically shitty WoW development. I love WoW, but we're basically on the third expansion in a row that have the stupid crappy systems and same stuff again and again.

World Quests were great and exciting in Legion, then ok BfA, but now totally suck in SL. What happened to the kill one boss WQ's, instead we get these tedious and boring fill the XP bar WQ's and now they seem to take longer, one kill only gives you 1% or 2%, meaning it takes FOREVER to complete it, and by the time I hit 100% and complete the World Quest I am so freaking bored and frustrated.

And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc... Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption ( Ugh the worst ) and then the next expansion Shadowlands, they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz.

Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst. We don't need Artifact or Azerite, or Covenant gear.

I don't want to grind for AP, or Azerite or Anima.

I don't want worse World Quests that are very time consuming and just boring AF.


Is there a possibility of a new creative team or director for the next expansion? I don't want Legion 4.0 anymore, I want a fresh take on WoW, new blood to take on the reigns. Whole new thought process for the game, no more Artifact or Azerite or Covenants, but part 4 in the next expansion, please no more.

Sounds like burnout to me.

Take a break. Nothing wrong with the dev team.

[Thirtyrock]

This is such a ridiculous claim.

Players saying anima is only for cosmetics/mounts are probably not playing the game.

In order to unlock soulbinds and conduits, you need to raise up renown. In order to you raise your renown, you need to farm 1K anima/week.

Your player power (soulbinds/conduits) are directly behind anima farming.

For players saying you don't need to farm anima at all if you don't care about soulbinds and conduits, because even if you are behind, you will catch up fast later.

In that logic, you didn't need to farm AP in Legion/BFA either, if you don't care about your weapon/HoA rank. And there were AP knowledge that increase every week, you will catch up fast anyway.

anima/renown is exactly the same thing as artifact power/azerite power, 100%, just with different names.

I don't do any anima farming, at all. I get 100% of my weekly anima for the quest from raiding, killing the world boss, and running M+. I don't have to think about it or try. That's what I think most people mean by "anima is optional". Yes, the weekly is necessary, but if you're doing normal end game stuff, including just a full clear of LFR, you don't have to farm anima, you'll have it all easily.

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Yes, 1K anima is still anima farming.

And Yes, it is same as AP in Legion/BFA, very easy to catch up.

It's not farming if you don't have to go out of your way to get it. That's the point. I can get my weekly without changing my play at all, so I can basically ignore the mechanic. I don't need 1 anima beyond my weekly and I don't have to think about that 1000 anima weekly. That's not farming.

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While the op is more upset about it than I am, I do agree with most of the points they make. Drop the stupid endless grinds for a new currency every expansion and give us a breather expac with finite BiS gear and cosmetics to chase in each tier. And for the love of god just get rid of the follower table, at least for one expansion.

I'm with you on the follower table.

What mechanic would you like them to give us to attain the cosmetics in each tier? Because it seems like we have finite BIS this tier and we have cosmetics to chase. We chase those cosmetics primarily through Anima farming (so I don't bother). Is that your main complaint, that we use a currency to get the cosmetics? Because it seems like they basically gave us what you're asking for.

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9.1 announcement on Blizzcon is pretty much a death sentence to wow: nothing new and exciting until end of the year.

And at this moment, I don't expect Blizzard can come with anything new and exciting anymore.

Wait, what? Who said 9.1 would be end of year? Or are you suggesting 9.1 won't be new and exciting but something else will come out at the end of the year? But if they can't come up with something new and exciting, then there's no "until the end of the year" it's just "i don't like this game anymore"

[Lunavale]

never stale or boring whatsoever.

I feel like I'm the only one that remembers the drip-feed and broken mess that was 7.2

[Pheraz]

I am super annoyed that I need to pick up those weekly quests. The system from legion and bfa where you could just log in, see make WQs, return if you have done 4 or 3 was much better.
My personal problem with SL is not the systems though. Even though I think bfa and legion were better in terms of systems, I am super annoyed by how alien this whole "continent" feels. Plus all areas are not connected and just feel unnatural but i guess that is on purpose and by design. But I can udnerstand that other people might enjoy this. There are even people that enjoyed an expansion full of orcs and draeneis. /shrug
I just wait until the next xpac hits and level alts and farm tmog until then. Totally not my cup of tea. I want to be on azeroth. Or have only 1 patch outside, like argus.

[CaptainV]

The problem with Anima is that like Azerite and Artifact Power, like the Garrison before it, Like the Farm before that, everything gets taken away and becomes redundant after an expansion.

We need content that lasts -after- an expansion, that can continue to be relevent beyond it. The issue with these "systems" is that they hold no meaning, at all and the problem there is that you'll never care about them again because of it.

Personally, id rather Ion retired as the game director and let someone with more vision give it a shot, hes really bad at the job. His angle is that all content is based on raid tier progression which these days raiding is not the only thing mmo gamers play mmo's for and as a result, all the content is focused on a single raid with 4 difficulties, 4.

Your doing the same raid 4 times with 4 different difficulties for 4 different coloured armor/weapons.

That alone tells me why its bad, its boring, bland, mundane. Its archaic and overused to the point raiding itself has become boring, content has become boring, repetative end game is boring.

Gated, end game, is the worst part.

Ion created the game with gating in mind thinking gating is a way to keep people on, but its artifical. We've become jaded, we leave the game, wait a few patches then come back when all the content is available and ready to play at the end of an expansion because its the best time to play the expansion.

Instead of caring about content being temporary the best time to care about it is at the end of an expansions life when you can do all the raids, all the dungeons, all the zones, all the story.

Thats actually the first time you'll truly enjoy the expansion, having all the shit to do thats in it, before then, its just a grind to end level then your bored waiting for more content.

Therein, is why I think WoW is sort of damned at this point. Until they start making less focus on raiding and temporary features, and more on the story of the game with smaller patches that focus on giving us more content in general as opposed to more big raids that only a niché audience actually cares about... then the game will continue to decline.

And yes, raiders are a niché Mythic is not that popular and most people get bored after doing heroic, hell, theres very little incentive to do mythic because the final raid of each expansion's mount is tied to doing heroic not mythic, so once you've completed that, aside from mogs and bragging rights theres very little reason to care about mythic.

[ashblond]

I am super annoyed that I need to pick up those weekly quests. The system from legion and bfa where you could just log in, see make WQs, return if you have done 4 or 3 was much better.
My personal problem with SL is not the systems though. Even though I think bfa and legion were better in terms of systems, I am super annoyed by how alien this whole "continent" feels. Plus all areas are not connected and just feel unnatural but i guess that is on purpose and by design. But I can udnerstand that other people might enjoy this. There are even people that enjoyed an expansion full of orcs and draeneis. /shrug
I just wait until the next xpac hits and level alts and farm tmog until then. Totally not my cup of tea. I want to be on azeroth. Or have only 1 patch outside, like argus.

You always had to pick up weekly quests, same in Legion/BFA.

But SL daily calling quests is a big step back compared to BFA emissary, just more forced travel to pick up quests.

[Pheraz]

You always had to pick up weekly quests, same in Legion/BFA.

But SL daily calling quests is a big step back compared to BFA emissary, just more forced travel to pick up quests.

yeah I am only talking about emissaries. Sorry if I made the post a bit vague
I am annoyed that I need to go to heart of the forst to pick up the weeklies.
This is not a reason to not like SL however. My reasons are purely aesthetic/amtmospherical

[justandulas]

It has devolved into Diablo 3 the mmo arpg

Wow today resembles a mmo version of Diablo 3 more than it represents its roots in rpg or mmorpg like vanilla WoW or EQ. The gearing system and systems in general are legit ripped out of d3

[Zenfoldor]

I would love WoW 2 with some re-imaginings of concepts, no character/item transfers from the first game, and a relaunch, and keep WoW1 in classic realms. However, I doubt it will happen. IMO, in that case, it would be awesome if Blizzard sent out a message to the entire gaming community that this is a new Blizzard MMO with new ideas and everyone should get in on the ground floor. Even if the game itself isn't stale(it is, imo) the concept that the game is stale to new users and the psychology of putting the number 2 after your game title instead of a subtitle, cannot be overstated.

[exsanguinate]

It has devolved into Diablo 3 the mmo arpg

Wow today resembles a mmo version of Diablo 3 more than it represents its roots in rpg or mmorpg like vanilla WoW or EQ. The gearing system and systems in general are legit ripped out of d3

May God bless you. I've been preaching this for years and was always labeled as an idiot that this would not be true. This game is litteraly World of Diablocraft since Legion.