Why do you think Warhammer Fantasy failed?

[guisadop]

The little contact I've had with the warhammer franchise gave me the idea that it is better written than warcraft, but I can't say for sure.

[Halyon]

Wouldn't say it failed, but that the combat is different to 40k does make a difference for me. They get such cool models...

[Baconeggcheese]

Fatshark who did Vermintide are doing 40k version of the game. People are optimistic about it.

What's the compelling part about these games? I bought and tried out vermintide and I didn't really see the appeal. It felt like one of those games where if you've played it for an hour you've played it for a hundred hours. The novelty of running around killing hordes of stuff in 3rd person ran out real quick.

Having guns in the mix might make it better, but even then the experience seemed so the same every time.

[Kumorii]

What's the compelling part about these games? I bought and tried out vermintide and I didn't really see the appeal. It felt like one of those games where if you've played it for an hour you've played it for a hundred hours. The novelty of running around killing hordes of stuff in 3rd person ran out real quick.

Having guns in the mix might make it better, but even then the experience seemed so the same every time.

It's mostly the Co-Op part that's fun. But other than that you have multiple difficulties and then you can add further difficulties by picking up extra collectibles during the runs. All of which helps you progress your characters since they all get gear and levels (I think?). Not entirely sure about the leveling part, been along while since i played it.

[druchii5]

I had no idea they were bringing back Old World Warhammer. The Druchii in me is pretty happy about that. I never actually played the tabletop, but I did enjoy collecting the models and (painting), as well as the lore.

[Fencers]

It was hard to make the Old World distinctive enough in that genre space. That is not to say WHFB did not have creative bits (heh) but on a surface level, they are/were fantasy knights, elves, and orcs. You'd have to have your interest already piqued to dive into the (great) lore of the setting and like learn about Nagash or Karl Franz.

[Zeta333]

snip

And both those were mediocre games. Nothing special.

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they can and they did ?
Yeah there are also lot of crap ones but i remember some great ones?

what were those? Dawn of war was a meh level rts. Space marine was a meh shooter.

[Easo]

And both those were mediocre games. Nothing special.
what were those? Dawn of war was a meh level rts. Space marine was a meh shooter.

"That is just like your opinion, man." DoW 1 with its expansions (and I would say DoW 2 too) was definitely well received, SM was a breath of fresh air in the time of cover shooters.

Mechanicus, Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, Gladius were/are successful and good games.

[Verdugo]

It's not about what I like or what I don't, it's a fact: Warhammer lore has not progressed significantly until The End Times, which means no big changes were made for 30 years ish. None of the main characters died, nothing really changed for 30 years. They only created petty stories about minor characters, but the world was always the same (a kid from the 80s and a kid from the 2010s would know the same things about Warhammer main story, nothing really changed).

After seeing the "changes" done to Warcraft, I can safely declare Warhammer Fantasy as a winner in this non-existent contest.

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What's the compelling part about these games? I bought and tried out vermintide and I didn't really see the appeal. It felt like one of those games where if you've played it for an hour you've played it for a hundred hours. The novelty of running around killing hordes of stuff in 3rd person ran out real quick.

Having guns in the mix might make it better, but even then the experience seemed so the same every time.

Ask everyone that liked Left 4 Dead maybe?

[Makabreska]

They are actually bringing back Old Fantasy setting. Gonna happen (I think) few thousand years before End Times. A more realistic take in contrast to over the top EoS.

[Sorrowseer]

Money.

Its simply that simple.

The World was fine and is much beloved, but it was not making money.

[Myradin]

It was hard to make the Old World distinctive enough in that genre space. That is not to say WHFB did not have creative bits (heh) but on a surface level, they are/were fantast knights, elves, and orcs. You'd have to have your interest already piqued to dive into the (great) lore of the setting and like learn about Nagash or Karl Franz.

I feel like this is a big one.

40k is so recognizably 40k, and has a particular niche in the sci-fi genre. Whereas fantasy is just 'grim dark fantasy' which feels fairly common. You see something in warhammer fantasy and it could easily be something in warcraft or other fantasy games. With the exception of orcs...mostly because of the 40k counterparts.

[Zeta333]

"That is just like your opinion, man." DoW 1 with its expansions (and I would say DoW 2 too) was definitely well received, SM was a breath of fresh air in the time of cover shooters.

Mechanicus, Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, Gladius were/are successful and good games.

Compared to what? 40k is a massive fucking ip spanning decades. Yet they havnt put out a AAA quality hit yet. The amount of money GW rakes in off of overpricing its shit should give them plenty of money to back something of higher quality than what we have been given. DOW was about the same level as those starwars rts games everyone forgot about.

[Fencers]

Compared to what? 40k is a massive fucking ip spanning decades. Yet they havnt put out a AAA quality hit yet. The amount of money GW rakes in off of overpricing its shit should give them plenty of money to back something of higher quality than what we have been given. DOW was about the same level as those starwars rts games everyone forgot about.

Dawn of War 1 (+Xpacks) are my favorite RTS ever. It easily is in my top 10 of all time and I racked up hundreds of hours in that game alone. It's still well-liked and people play it still. I would not say people forgot about it among the RTS genre so much as subsequent releases with that brand were progressively worse than DOW1.

Also, Empire at War and Republic Commando are the only Star Wars games I enjoyed thoroughly. :P

[Easo]

Compared to what? 40k is a massive fucking ip spanning decades. Yet they havnt put out a AAA quality hit yet. The amount of money GW rakes in off of overpricing its shit should give them plenty of money to back something of higher quality than what we have been given. DOW was about the same level as those starwars rts games everyone forgot about.

Compared to other games in respective genres. DoW has not been forgotten (dead games do not have active mod community, for one), the series failed under third game, when they decided to do wierd MOBA/RTS hybrid.
I would consider DoW 2 an AAA (that term itself is funny) game, SM close to it. Rest are very genre specific, but that does not make them crap games just because they are niche games.
You can argue all day that all 40k games have been shit or mediocre, I will disagree and I do think objectively you are wrong.

[Fencers]

The problem is the Warhammer license is handed out like candy on Halloween by GW without respect to what anyone showed up as to the door. You get a lot of the good (Warhammer: Inquisitor, Space Marine, Dawn of War, Total War: Warhammer) mixed in with the bad (DOW3, Chaosbane, Adeptus Titanicus, Armageddon) that degrades the product line.

Games Workshop is and always have been unashamed money-whores.

[Rendark]

It didn't fail, it was killed.

[Darleth]

The problem is the Warhammer license is handed out like candy on Halloween by GW without respect to what anyone showed up as to the door. You get a lot of the good (Warhammer: Inquisitor, Space Marine, Dawn of War, Total War: Warhammer) mixed in with the bad (DOW3, Chaosbane, Adeptus Titanicus, Armageddon) that degrades the product line.

Games Workshop is and always have been unashamed money-whores.

Im almost offended that you didnt include Mechanicus as a good game. For a basically "softcore" XCOM clone, that game is pretty damn good.
Unfortunately, as you said, GW are money whores. They give their license to a ton of unknown or simply bad developers, which end up doing more harm than good for the franchise when it comes down to Videogames.

Also... Fire Warrior... I'm still laughing that they tried to sell that garbage off as "better than HALO!" and being a "revolutionary shooter for the consoles".

On why Warhammer Fantasy failed? Because money. They turned the "grimdark" into standard fantasy shlog with Age of Sigmar for no other reason other than appealing to a wider audience, when in reality Warhammer has always been more of a niche, especially in the tabletop space.
Took them long enough to realize that Fantasy appeals to a lot more people than AoS did since its inception.

[Dhrizzle]

On why Warhammer Fantasy failed? Because money. They turned the "grimdark" into standard fantasy shlog with Age of Sigmar for no other reason other than appealing to a wider audience, when in reality Warhammer has always been more of a niche, especially in the tabletop space.
Took them long enough to realize that Fantasy appeals to a lot more people than AoS did since its inception.

Did you get that the wrong way 'round? Warhammer Fantasy was the standard fantasy schlock, Age of Sigmar swapped that for a weird post-apocalyptic magic realms thingy where I think the designers went a little bit mad with some of the ranges, I'm mostly looking at the Idoneth Deepkin there though the other elves (Sylvaneth and Lumineth) are also pretty crazy.

[Yriel]

Warhammer Fantasy didn't fail as a setting - it was beloved, which is why Total Warhammer is doing so well. The reason Warhammer Fantasy Battles ended - after it's eighth edition - was because Games Workshop's design principles changed and the game became unaffordable.

Plus they wanted to copyright their races and couldn't do that with elves, dwarves etc.. So they became Aelves, Duardin, etc. That they could copyright.

The story had in fact advanced - though they started retconning that by the end. They had campaigns such as the Storm of Chaos and Nemesis Crown, which were of mediocre quality but still counted as advancement, and up until 7th edition Fantasy was doing pretty well.

Yes i agree. They had some developments, like the whole Albion/Green Sorceress part, the bretonian crusades into Khemri, death of Nagash etc.
But since it was a tabletop setting most of the progressions happened slowly through new army books.