Worst Designed Dungeon/Raid Boss Encounter *In your Opinion*

[kaminaris]

I completely disagree, Xanesh was a target dummy boss. Aside from her ball mechanic and the interrupt rotation none of the mechanics on her fight required any sort of thought or effort to avoid. They might as well have not been there, they were so unbelievably trivial.

I disagree that all of the bosses you listed are garbage design. For a lot of the bosses you listed the reasons they were bad was so far from just their design.

Boss that are better than Xanesh post-SoO:

Blackhand
Operator
Gul'dan
Argus
Kin'Goroth
Mekkatorque
Jaina


This is a list of a bosses that are easily way better of bosses than Xanesh, there are way more better bosses than Xanesh post-SoO but these are the ones that are just leagues above.

You can't disagree with facts. Xanesh was not target dummy. Going with your logic every boss is target dummy if you die at the beginning and let other people carry you.

Aside from her complex mechanics she didn't have other complex mechanics.

Lets go:
Blackhand - one of the worst bosses in that raid. Boring, clustefuck, main mechanic was tank kiting that demolisher or whatever it was called.
Operator was good fight, not better than Xanesh but good.
Gul'dan - was ok, too long, a bit too complex but overall not even close to xanesh.
Argus - terrible fight, boring slog, too long, boring mechanics, puggable first week. Far from xanesh.
Kin'Goroth - it was ok, balls were good but that was practically the only mechanic there, laser was bugged.
Mekkatorque - pretty good, it could have been considered on par with xanesh if not for random bugged slams and random balls falling to wrong people wiping raid.
Jaina - too long, it was good but far too long.

Funny thing is you didnt list hanzgar & franzok and oregorger that were both leagues above any other bosses in BRF.


Nope. Not even close to Xanesh. And no, there isn't a single boss in entire wow history that is "leagues above" xanesh.

[Weeps]

If you really want to get serious...

LFR Durumu.

Seriously...

[Senen]

Like the 2nd boss in spires. That just shoots random bolts everywhere. Or the spears at the end of the dungeon. Especially when one mob throws 4 spears because of low dps.
You just feel so helpless in encounters like that.

Compare that to the end boss, even if you fight him 30 min. Its dodge charge, move to circle. Shit like that I can handle.
But random bolts while you watch unit frames etc is just super annoying.

There's very little rng involved in how the 2nd boss in spires behave and if it's positionned correctly there's not that much execution required to dodge the balls. The worst part of this encounter are the pillars around the room that makes it harder to setup your camera properly when things are in place.

[Shaqthefat]

You can't disagree with facts. Xanesh was not target dummy. Going with your logic every boss is target dummy if you die at the beginning and let other people carry you.

Aside from her complex mechanics she didn't have other complex mechanics.

Lets go:
Blackhand - one of the worst bosses in that raid. Boring, clustefuck, main mechanic was tank kiting that demolisher or whatever it was called.
Operator was good fight, not better than Xanesh but good.
Gul'dan - was ok, too long, a bit too complex but overall not even close to xanesh.
Argus - terrible fight, boring slog, too long, boring mechanics, puggable first week. Far from xanesh.
Kin'Goroth - it was ok, balls were good but that was practically the only mechanic there, laser was bugged.
Mekkatorque - pretty good, it could have been considered on par with xanesh if not for random bugged slams and random balls falling to wrong people wiping raid.
Jaina - too long, it was good but far too long.

Funny thing is you didnt list hanzgar & franzok and oregorger that were both leagues above any other bosses in BRF.


Nope. Not even close to Xanesh. And no, there isn't a single boss in entire wow history that is "leagues above" xanesh.

Ok I'll correct myself, Xanesh was a glorified target dummy. When her ball mechanic wasn't going on, she really might as well have transformed into one.


I completely disagree with your opinions on those bosses. Especially that Xanesh is one of the best bosses in WoW's history. It's actually laughable you think that fight is so good there aren't others that are leagues above it.

Unfortunately for you what you think and your opinions aren't the end all be all. So I'm going to continue to think that Xanesh is an alright boss on a good day and a trash boss on a bad day. Especially since your "facts" are completely debatable on why the boss is even good.

[kaminaris]

Ok I'll correct myself, Xanesh was a glorified target dummy. When her ball mechanic wasn't going on, she really might as well have transformed into one.


I completely disagree with your opinions on those bosses. Especially that Xanesh is one of the best bosses in WoW's history. It's actually laughable you think that fight is so good there aren't others that are leagues above it.

Unfortunately for you what you think and your opinions aren't the end all be all. So I'm going to continue to think that Xanesh is an alright boss on a good day and a trash boss on a bad day. Especially since your "facts" are completely debatable on why the boss is even good.

Dude, that also can be applied to every other boss: When boss X wasn't doing mechanics it was just a target dummy.
Its pretty hilarious at this point.


You are just trying to justify your opinion with anecdotal experience and present it as fact. Your experience =/= boss design.

Simple facts about xanesh:
1. If you die its 99.9% your fault.
2. If your group fails its 99.9% problem with skill and not with gear.
3. You can chose to be more active or more passive (either do the balls/interrupts or don't, depending on skill/mood/composition etc)
4. Not too long
5. Cannot be completely overgeared
6. No overlapping mechanics
7. No clustefucks (camera issue, too much stuff at once etc)

It takes pretty much every possible problem with raid composition/people into consideration like: having people bad with specific type of mechanics, having people with periodical lags, having lower skilled players, rotation of squad members etc. No problem can hard stop you. And dont even say "just get people with better internet/skill", this take is disconnected from reality.

[Volardelis]

You forgot Faction Champs' predecessor, Priestess Delrissa in Magister's Terrace.

I still hate that fight to this day. Mainly because you can get stunned locked as a tank and you can't taunt any of the adds & boss. So you have to get threat up the old fashioned way.

[arkanon]

I’ll try to redescribe my issue with Xanesh... it’s really that it’s incredibly annoying if you don’t run a consistent group because of the number of roles you need people to fill between interrupts and soaks. If you have a group with a lot of turnover or a pug, every week it becomes... ok let me set up the notes again for who soaks and what the interrupt rotations are while the entire raid falls asleep for 15 minutes. Heroic pugs had a lot of trouble with it even when super geared, and on mythic you had no shot outside a regular guild group.

You might call that skill, I call it an annoying boss with far too much pre pull setup. It’s not skill to know your role because you do the same one every week, and it’s not skill to wipe because you have 9 people coordinating together for the first time.

You might call that a problem with the encounter, I call it a problem with pugging. I mentioned this earlier, but some fights can be REALLY fun with good communication and a good group of friends, but absolutely terrible in a pug situation, or with limited communication. To be clear - I agree that fight (among many others) was terrible with pugs who didnt get on voice, or refused to use their mic. All im saying is that is a common theme on many encounters, from the very good to the very bad.

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Dude, that also can be applied to every other boss: When boss X wasn't doing mechanics it was just a target dummy.
Its pretty hilarious at this point.


You are just trying to justify your opinion with anecdotal experience and present it as fact. Your experience =/= boss design.

Simple facts about xanesh:
1. If you die its 99.9% your fault.
2. If your group fails its 99.9% problem with skill and not with gear.
3. You can chose to be more active or more passive (either do the balls/interrupts or don't, depending on skill/mood/composition etc)
4. Not too long
5. Cannot be completely overgeared
6. No overlapping mechanics
7. No clustefucks (camera issue, too much stuff at once etc)

It takes pretty much every possible problem with raid composition/people into consideration like: having people bad with specific type of mechanics, having people with periodical lags, having lower skilled players, rotation of squad members etc. No problem can hard stop you. And dont even say "just get people with better internet/skill", this take is disconnected from reality.

Xanesh is soccer boss, right? I REALLY enjoyed that fight, and I was progging it with some very specials idiots. Didnt stop us having a blast with it though, it was really fun. Was it the best fight ever or even top 10? not sure, never gave it much thought, but I did really enjoy it.

[Shaqthefat]

Dude, that also can be applied to every other boss: When boss X wasn't doing mechanics it was just a target dummy.
Its pretty hilarious at this point.


You are just trying to justify your opinion with anecdotal experience and present it as fact. Your experience =/= boss design.

Simple facts about xanesh:
1. If you die its 99.9% your fault.
2. If your group fails its 99.9% problem with skill and not with gear.
3. You can chose to be more active or more passive (either do the balls/interrupts or don't, depending on skill/mood/composition etc)
4. Not too long
5. Cannot be completely overgeared
6. No overlapping mechanics
7. No clustefucks (camera issue, too much stuff at once etc)

It takes pretty much every possible problem with raid composition/people into consideration like: having people bad with specific type of mechanics, having people with periodical lags, having lower skilled players, rotation of squad members etc. No problem can hard stop you. And dont even say "just get people with better internet/skill", this take is disconnected from reality.

Xanesh was a target dummy.


You're trying to use your experience with Xanesh to justify it as a good boss. And once again calling the ball mechanic skill based. Getting used to a finicky mechanic doesn't require that much skill it just requires time that is why there were so many wipes.

[arkanon]

I still hate that fight to this day. Mainly because you can get stunned locked as a tank and you can't taunt any of the adds & boss. So you have to get threat up the old fashioned way.

I actually found it worse when not tanking, purely because I constantly came across tanks who refused to clear the room enough, tried to take shortcuts, and this caused wipe............after wipe.................after wipe............turning a few mins of clearing into 25 mins failing at the boss, followed by 3 mins of clearing, and a kill.

Happened more than once to me, maybe not 25 mins, but I would generally say before the first pull "happy to clear a bit more, will make it much safer" and for whatever reason, tanks sometimes take that as a personal challenge, so even when we wipe because the room wasnt clear, they refuse to admit fault and simply pull again. And again. And again.

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Xanesh was a target dummy.


You're trying to use your experience with Xanesh to justify it as a good boss. And once again calling the ball mechanic skill based. Getting used to a finicky mechanic doesn't require that much skill it just requires time that is why there were so many wipes.

All bosses are "target dummies" if you take away their mechanics..........I personally found the mechanics quite simple, but very punishing of mistakes. We had a blast progging on it and really enjoyed it. Im not arguing if it was hard, or easy, or good, or bad - but we really enjoyed it.

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If you really want to get serious...

LFR Durumu.

Seriously...

HAHAHAHAHA, omfg, not just LFR - I remember recently taking some friends that had never done it - we didnt tell them anything about the encounter, except that there was a maze to run through. It was GLORIOUS. I believe the general response from all first timers was a chorus of "whoa.............WHOA.........UM, WTF? NONONONONONONO.......just res me after"

[Project 501D13R]

Faction Champions in Trial of the Crusader, if I wanted to PvP I would que for some BG's or arenas.

[arkanon]

Gimmick fights for sure.

Playing soccer, dancing, turning a certain direction... Bullshit mechanics.

I really enjoy some (SOME) of these fights, but, only if they are optional bosses. And I wish Blizzard would do more optional bosses TBH - The issue comes with loot though - even if the boss is "optional", if it has loot, it is almost guaranteed to have someone's BIS something, and suddenly the boss is not so optional anymore.

[Shaqthefat]

All bosses are "target dummies" if you take away their mechanics..........I personally found the mechanics quite simple, but very punishing of mistakes. We had a blast progging on it and really enjoyed it. Im not arguing if it was hard, or easy, or good, or bad - but we really enjoyed it.
"

Certain bosses are more like target dummies than others. Because Xanesh had very few interesting mechanics she has always felt closer to a target dummy to me. Almost everything on that fight was really boring, doing orbs was fun but not enough to carry the fight for me. Just not interesting or engaging enough for me.

It's not a bad fight, but I just don't think a good one either. It leans more good than it does bad though.

[arkanon]

Certain bosses are more like target dummies than others. Because Xanesh had very few interesting mechanics she has always felt closer to a target dummy to me. Almost everything on that fight was really boring, doing orbs was fun but not enough to carry the fight for me. Just not interesting or engaging enough for me.

It's not a bad fight, but I just don't think a good one either. It leans more good than it does bad though.

I guess the distinction is between "bad" and "I didn't enjoy". I think a poorly designed boss is one that REQUIRES or heavily favors a certain class or spec, is clearly overturned, is overly gated to the point of ppl standing around, or require players to enter vehicles and play their own little minigame instead of the class/spec they enjoy etc. There are plenty of fights that are well designed and implemented, but I personally just don't enjoy. There are also many fights that are great as range dps, but horrible as melee; great as a healer, boring as a tank; amazing as a tank, boring for everyone else.

[Jastall]

Xanesh's problem is that if you don't get picked to do the mechanic (very common on Heroic and less, even on Mythic as DPS increased), there's barely anything to the fight. Again Mythic is a bit better about this but you're still pretty much doing your rotation on a giant HP bar dodging easy mechanics while other players handle the actually important stuff and wipe you if they fail. It's a slightly better version of the Blackfuse conveyor belt, but still not great design.

[arkanon]

Xanesh's problem is that if you don't get picked to do the mechanic (very common on Heroic and less, even on Mythic as DPS increased), there's barely anything to the fight. Again Mythic is a bit better about this but you're still pretty much doing your rotation on a giant HP bar dodging easy mechanics while other players handle the actually important stuff and wipe you if they fail. It's a slightly better version of the Blackfuse conveyor belt, but still not great design.

Man, I hated the conveyor belt SO MUCH, and eventually lost my shit and yelled at those doing it, followed by one saying "you fucking do it then". Maybe it was my spec, maybe it was just luck, but I absolutely nailed it first time, and 95% of the attempts after that. I miss that guy, poor bugger, he wasnt a bad raider, just didnt deal with criticism well.

I got excited every time that boss came up, but I also really enjoy tanking so it could be a mindset thing - im used to mechanics over dps (for the most part) so i was comfortable saving a cd or 2 for the conveyor and it never even factored into my decision that it might lower my overall dmg a bit.

But, to be clear, I went from tanking the fight, to the conveyor, so it could be a terrible experience to dps without going up there, im not sure. In small doses, I quite enjoy those gimmicky fights, so long as its just one or 2 per expansion, I dont want 1 or 2 per raid.

[kaminaris]

Xanesh is soccer boss, right? I REALLY enjoyed that fight, and I was progging it with some very specials idiots. Didnt stop us having a blast with it though, it was really fun. Was it the best fight ever or even top 10? not sure, never gave it much thought, but I did really enjoy it.

Yes it was the football fight. It was really fun.

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Xanesh was a target dummy.


You're trying to use your experience with Xanesh to justify it as a good boss. And once again calling the ball mechanic skill based. Getting used to a finicky mechanic doesn't require that much skill it just requires time that is why there were so many wipes.

Every boss was target dummy. I am not using my experience. I enjoyed a lot siegecrafter blackfuse but wouldn't call that fight one of the best. That the thing. I do know when my feelings are coming over and can distinguish them.

I was progressing xanesh with really bad guild that later fell apart, it wasn't pleasant experience still boss design was best.

[Shaqthefat]

Every boss was target dummy. I am not using my experience. I enjoyed a lot siegecrafter blackfuse but wouldn't call that fight one of the best. That the thing. I do know when my feelings are coming over and can distinguish them.

I was progressing xanesh with really bad guild that later fell apart, it wasn't pleasant experience still boss design was best.

Well then all we can go from here is disagree on what perfect boss design. I think that if other bosses followed Xanesh's boss design that raiding would quickly fall off, you don't. You aren't going to change your mind and I won't change mine.

[Yuli]

For raid bosses it's easily Xanesh for me. She hit all of my pet peeves at once; super gimmicky, requiring a chain interrupt rotation, and an instant wipe mechanic if one person failed the stupid gimmick even slightly.

As for dungeon bosses, Manastorms in SL actually pisses me off. Any encounter that requires a full dps stop if you go "too hard" is already flawed, but to see it in a dungeon? Fuck off.

Easy strat is going for BL and CDs to one-cycle Milificent in mob weeks and regular strat in boss weeks. I actually like that De Other Side has two bosses that massively change in pacing depending on the week.

OT: I hated the Council of Klaxxi fight in SuO. I loved running against the wall with Garrosh because my raid group wasn't that good at that time (me neither) and Garrosh was really fun, but always doing this stupid ass fight before him...I hated it.

[garicasha]

Oh God I totally forgot the first iteration of Deathbringer Saurfang where the easiest strategy by far was to DI the infected player, or let him die.

Although that wasn't a horrible fight necessarily, but that detail was definitely overlooked. Encounters in general were more simplistic back then.

[tomten]

Mists of thirna shite is the worst dungeon ever made.