How do people feel about flying in previous expansions?

[Gurbz]

a moderne wow with new engine could let you do combat on mount, aerial combat, underwater combat, etc.. each expansion is just about new boring mechanic in a restraint engine so old it make babies crying lol

That has nothing to do with the engine (which has been updated and overhauled so often throughout the games life that it is already functionally running on a more modern engine than it started with). WoW has had all of those mechanics at different points and each time the community at large hated them. Its not Blizzard refusing to do it or being held back by the engine. They are listening to the majority of their playerbase, who overwhelmingly said they don't want those things as a major aspect of their gameplay.

[Klingers]

As someone who has been playing since Vanilla, I loved flying when it came in with Burning Crusade.

I thoroughly support the idea that players should quest through a well-crafted story at least once on the ground and I fully support flying being something either at max level or only available to alts... But fuck this Pathfinder bullshit.

Pathfinder was only even brought in as a giant middle finger to the players who got their way on getting flying back after Blizzard slacked off and fell behind on actually getting the Draenor finished for release. They stuck to that model as a carrot to make people do boring grindy bullshit for three expansions.

Flying hurts a feeling of immersion at the start of a new expansion. Beyond that it's a necessary and largely wanted convenience. If you're into self-flagellation, fine. Don't use the bloody thing. Ride on the ground everywhere. Doesn't mean the rest of us need to miss out.

[Squigglyo]

Flying should never have been implemented in the first place. Completely destroys the immersion of the world around us.

They did make a huge mistake in regards to mobility in Shadowlands though, and that is the lack of a Flightmaster's Whistle, as we had on Legion and BFA. That thing was great.

So yea, i dislike flying for the game, but i have no issues with the compromise of adding flying later on, whilst keeping the most recent area with no flight till the following patch.

So flying to your location breaks immersion

but teleporting instantly back doesnt?

[Devilyaki]

Tbc got it right, max level, buy it, done.

[Xath]

Flying should never have been implemented in the first place. Completely destroys the immersion of the world around us.

They did make a huge mistake in regards to mobility in Shadowlands though, and that is the lack of a Flightmaster's Whistle, as we had on Legion and BFA. That thing was great.

So yea, i dislike flying for the game, but i have no issues with the compromise of adding flying later on, whilst keeping the most recent area with no flight till the following patch.

Flying makes the game far more immersive for me and I often quit between flight patches or just don't do world content because of how long it takes.

[czarek]

Liked much especially for alts.

[Jakfrosty]

I'm happy with what they've done in legion and WoD with the latest expansion of removing any requirements to access flying in older expansions. I also don't mind not flying in the first couple months of an expansion would be a shame to potentially skip many areas of the game when leveling through it for the first time

[sam86]

In terms of the data you mention...we have data to show that the wow player base isn't anywhere near as casual as it claims to be (or blizzard does).

You can look at covenants with most classes have their BiS covenant consisting of over 80% of overall capped characters. The only spec I found with a near even split is havoc demon hunters who have a pretty healthy near 25% break down but that class is extremely rare to see due to how poorly they perform.

i didn't claim i believe it, in fact i was clear they don't have data to back it up
But i heard it myself, they are talking like the vast majority of wow playerbase is extremely casual, why no idea

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Weird 'cos I've read them saying it was to save resources because let's face it once you've built something like Stormwind leaving off the rooves isn't going to be much of a saving in time, especially as they then have to test the viewing angles to make sure the illusion isn't shattered.

so paint on a paper takes 'same time' as make an actual 3d model?
not to mention they 'don't' even need to test it looks good or not, just put it there, check the only path available to see it, done, u don't need to check if it looks good from back, if anyone looks from back, it is hacking game and will be banned

[Yarathir]

The way they are doing flying in shadowlands seems fine. I would rather it be unlocked as soon as we hit max level but whatever.

Honestly, I don't think it's really going to be that drastically different from BfA in practice. In BfA, we got pathfinder part 1 in 8.0 and then 2 in 8.2, which wasn't all that much work. Most of it was having to wait for 8.2 to land.

We have no idea when 9.1 might drop, but it's likely not anytime soon, and the flying is going to be tied to Renown/Campaign. Not sure about the direct details of that, but the least I can say is that 9.1 I think doubles the Renown levels. If even half of those new Renown levels are required to unlock flying, then time-wise, there's probably not going to be much of a difference to BfA.

[Dhrizzle]

i didn't claim i believe it, in fact i was clear they don't have data to back it up
But i heard it myself, they are talking like the vast majority of wow playerbase is extremely casual, why no idea

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so paint on a paper takes 'same time' as make an actual 3d model?
not to mention they 'don't' even need to test it looks good or not, just put it there, check the only path available to see it, done, u don't need to check if it looks good from back, if anyone looks from back, it is hacking game and will be banned

Have you visited Stormwind? There are several buildings with multiple levels which is why not all the roofs were left off and a few different flight-paths that go in there that all needed to be checked off. It's not just a matter of "paint on paper" (well, not any more than all models with textures are,) it's more like building a complete model then deciding which bits can be left off.

[TheFirstOnes]

MMORPG has a meaning. Or had a meaning, once. The open world was part of that. I’m not telling people how to play an MMORPG, I’m saying that WoW would be a better MMORPG if it wasn’t full of people who don’t want to play MMORPGs. You don’t have time to travel from point a to point b? Then why on earth did you pick up an open world game? You’re playing the wrong sort of game.

I, incidentally, am approximately the most casual player that ever there was. I have been playing classic as much as my time allows since release and am level 54.

Your second paragraph is unspeakably inane and doesn’t deserve a response.

Flying in an MMO is a new means of exploring aswell. So, I don't get your point. We fly IRL, does that automatically ruin exploration of the earth? No? Okay then.

Also, as I have explained multiple times, my friends have quit because of a lack of flying, and that is in part also due to how repetitive it is going from point a to point b on the ground all the time, as well as in part due to the zones being ass to travel in. What's so inane about it? Did you just ignore the Broken Isles? Fuckin Argus? Come on bud. Spit it out. Not everyone wants to be dazed or slowed every time they're riding through a zone because they pulled some annoying ass enemies.

[Sondrelk]

Flying in an MMO is a new means of exploring aswell. So, I don't get your point. We fly IRL, does that automatically ruin exploration of the earth? No? Okay then.

Also, as I have explained multiple times, my friends have quit because of a lack of flying, and that is in part also due to how repetitive it is going from point a to point b on the ground all the time, as well as in part due to the zones being ass to travel in. What's so inane about it? Did you just ignore the Broken Isles? Fuckin Argus? Come on bud. Spit it out. Not everyone wants to be dazed or slowed every time they're riding through a zone because they pulled some annoying ass enemies.

The problem is that flying as presented in the game is far too powerful.
Flying is a tool for exploration in the real world, but the equivalent WoW feature would flight paths or gliders.

If Blizzard introduced a new mode of transport that had distinct disadvantages over going by ground then it wouldnt be a problem, but in WoW you can fly from anywhere that a mount is allowed unless specifically exempted, can move in all directions in 3D space, and can land and take off with minimal, if no effort.

A compromise solution would for instance be that you could fly, but you could only take off from designated area in each zone, as well as beibg bound by the same limitations of movement that might be expected from flying in the real world.
That way if you wanted to get from Sinfall to the entrancce of Castle Nathria you likely could, you just wouldnt be able to fly back. You would be able to get to any single area easily, but once thre you would either have to travel by ground movement or travel back to where flying is allowed.

[Belloc]

I see a lot of complaints that flying ruins world-PvP. There's a hilariously simple solution to this problem: Disable flight while warmode is active.

Flying is a huge quality-of-life/convenience mechanic. If Blizzard would just design the world with flight in mind (like they did with BC and WotLK), then it would work extremely well. You guys love to complain about all of the things that Blizzard has taken away (spells/abilities, levels, etc), but you can't fathom why people would complain about start-of-expansion flight being taken away?

People need to stop using world-PvP as an excuse for why flying shouldn't be in the game. World-PvP doesn't even exist for most of the game's population now. Much like Blizzard shouldn't cater exclusively to raiders, they also shouldn't cater exclusively to a niche PvP environment, either.

Let's be frank: Flying isn't in at expansion launch because Blizzard wants to pad out the experience. Getting from place to place at flight speeds means that players are done with their daily routine that much faster.

Note: I say all of this as someone who played with Warmode active in BFA and as someone who has no problem riding around on a ground mount.

[hulkgor]

So flying to your location breaks immersion

but teleporting instantly back doesnt?

Ain't you the sharpest tool in the shed, 'uh?

Yea, there's no different whatsoever from a hyper speed, no cooldown, low cast time, flying mount to a 5m, on cooldown, small distance teleport as convenience.

Why do i even bother coming to MMOC, sigh.

Well, your loss, since we don't have flying, and between the both of us, i don't care. Sorry buddy.

[Snufflupagus]

Flying in an MMO is a new means of exploring aswell. So, I don't get your point. We fly IRL, does that automatically ruin exploration of the earth? No? Okay then.

If you seriously believe that “exploration of the earth” is somehow comparable to engaging in an open world video game I can’t help you, bud, but I advise you to spend some more time outside.

Further, if you seriously believe that personalised, instantaneous, on-demand, unconstrained-by-physics, point-to-point, warp-speed transportation à la WoW flying mounts are remotely comparable to the fact that in real life you can—at substantial inconvenience and expenditure of time and resources—fly from one location in the general region of where you are to another location in the general region of where you want to be, I don’t know how to help you. The comparison simply does not make sense. Real world flight is comparable to WoW zeppelins and ships, or flight paths at best. It’s irrelevant to flying mounts.

Also, as I have explained multiple times, my friends have quit because of a lack of flying, and that is in part also due to how repetitive it is going from point a to point b on the ground all the time, as well as in part due to the zones being ass to travel in. What's so inane about it? Did you just ignore the Broken Isles? Fuckin Argus? Come on bud. Spit it out. Not everyone wants to be dazed or slowed every time they're riding through a zone because they pulled some annoying ass enemies.

They quit because of lack of flying? Good.
They don’t like crossing zones from point A to point B? Fair enough. That’s entirely reasonable. They probably shouldn’t have picked up an open world game if that’s not the kind of thing they enjoy.

It is inane for precisely that reason. So far your argument has been:

1. Moving around the world takes a long time and is inconvenient.
2. I don’t have time and don’t enjoy the inconvenience.
3. Therefore, I should be able to skip the world at will by flying over it like I have cheat codes or dev tools.

To which I have responded:
1. This is an open world game; world is in the name. The promise and premise of the game is a vast explorable world.
2. The world is therefore a central (the central) mechanic and feature of the game.
3. Therefore, if you don’t have the time or inclination to enjoy the open world... you’re in the wrong game, mate. Play something lobby-based.

To which you have responded “but I have friends who don’t have time and don’t enjoy the inconvenience”.

What am I supposed to say to that? I know. We’ve discussed it already. That’s not some new addition to the argument, it’s just recapitulating the point that we discussed to begin with. My question to them just like my question to you is why did you sign up to an open world game, then?

As previously discussed, your argument for flying is precisely equivalent to me saying “I don’t like gearing but I hate the inconvenience of doing PVP with bad gear; we need a mythic loot vendor”. Gearing up is part of the game, advocating to functionally remove part of the game is asinine and senseless.

Edit to add: also, I realise that flying isn’t going away. I’ve made my peace with that. My contention from the beginning in this thread has been that flying was a mistake, not that it should be removed. I realise that now the mistake has been made people will cry if it’s rectified by being taken away. Allowing people to fly and completely invalidate the open world after they’ve completed the open world and it’s outdated seems to me to be the most reasonable compromise, in the circumstances.

[saixilein]

last time i flight was in MoP, cause i wasnt motivated to grind all that shit, so im happy you get flying in shadowlands pretty easy.

[xxdprussxx]

World pvp is dead even with out flying. Groups forming up in open world is dead even with out flying. Dont know why ppl dont want flying when it will make it easier to get to places. They wonder why so many ppl are leaving the game. Alot of ppl dont have the free time and when it takes you 15 minutes per world quests alot of ppl decide not to bother and raid log or just quit. Everyone that says there fine with out flying I bet play at least 20 hours a week and say it takes them 2 minutes to do a world quest stop kidding yourself. They need flying when you hit max lvl like tbc

[mojusk]

for new players it should unlock when they get their first 50

[Sondrelk]

Edit to add: also, I realise that flying isn’t going away. I’ve made my peace with that. My contention from the beginning in this thread has been that flying was a mistake, not that it should be removed. I realise that now the mistake has been made people will cry if it’s rectified by being taken away. Allowing people to fly and completely invalidate the open world after they’ve completed the open world and it’s outdated seems to me to be the most reasonable compromise, in the circumstances.

There is also the long-shot option of Blizzard fixing flying by making it more restrictive so it can stand with all the other means of transportation. As I pointed out above, it wouldnt be terribly difficult to make it so you could only take off with flying mounts from specific areas, and better yet make flying more like actual flying and less like noclipping.

Take Revendreth for instance, make it so you can only fly from Sinfall, and maybe another point near the portal to Oribos, that way you can move quickly across the zone, but only really once, making both flying and ground mounts have uses.

[TheFirstOnes]

If you seriously believe that “exploration of the earth” is somehow comparable to engaging in an open world video game I can’t help you, bud, but I advise you to spend some more time outside.

Further, if you seriously believe that personalised, instantaneous, on-demand, unconstrained-by-physics, point-to-point, warp-speed transportation à la WoW flying mounts are remotely comparable to the fact that in real life you can—at substantial inconvenience and expenditure of time and resources—fly from one location in the general region of where you are to another location in the general region of where you want to be, I don’t know how to help you. The comparison simply does not make sense. Real world flight is comparable to WoW zeppelins and ships, or flight paths at best. It’s irrelevant to flying mounts.



They quit because of lack of flying? Good.
They don’t like crossing zones from point A to point B? Fair enough. That’s entirely reasonable. They probably shouldn’t have picked up an open world game if that’s not the kind of thing they enjoy.

It is inane for precisely that reason. So far your argument has been:

1. Moving around the world takes a long time and is inconvenient.
2. I don’t have time and don’t enjoy the inconvenience.
3. Therefore, I should be able to skip the world at will by flying over it like I have cheat codes or dev tools.

To which I have responded:
1. This is an open world game; world is in the name. The promise and premise of the game is a vast explorable world.
2. The world is therefore a central (the central) mechanic and feature of the game.
3. Therefore, if you don’t have the time or inclination to enjoy the open world... you’re in the wrong game, mate. Play something lobby-based.

To which you have responded “but I have friends who don’t have time and don’t enjoy the inconvenience”.

What am I supposed to say to that? I know. We’ve discussed it already. That’s not some new addition to the argument, it’s just recapitulating the point that we discussed to begin with. My question to them just like my question to you is why did you sign up to an open world game, then?

As previously discussed, your argument for flying is precisely equivalent to me saying “I don’t like gearing but I hate the inconvenience of doing PVP with bad gear; we need a mythic loot vendor”. Gearing up is part of the game, advocating to functionally remove part of the game is asinine and senseless.

Edit to add: also, I realise that flying isn’t going away. I’ve made my peace with that. My contention from the beginning in this thread has been that flying was a mistake, not that it should be removed. I realise that now the mistake has been made people will cry if it’s rectified by being taken away. Allowing people to fly and completely invalidate the open world after they’ve completed the open world and it’s outdated seems to me to be the most reasonable compromise, in the circumstances.

Idk what's so bad about comparing an open world game to Earth, which is...a world for people to explore. If people want to fly to places faster, let them. No idea why this means I should go outside more. I'm pretty sure I go outside a lot, thanks.

You're making this a way bigger issue than it needs to be. Not everyone is satisfied with being grounded. Players should have a choice, and it is their right to choose whether they should want to fly or not. That's why it's an MMORPG. It's about the community, and when you take away the Players ability to play the game the way they want to play it, then that will cause a major upset.

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And, in return, that will hurt Blizzard's sales.