Realistic portrayal of the Alliance within World of Warcraft

[Thage]

I like to think Mekkatorque remains king because no other gnome wants the job. Dealing with the slow reclamation of Gnomeregan while attending military councils with the other Alliance races sounds positively dreadful and would probably get in the way of good, honest research and inventing.

Well, the main thing is, Gelbin has, to my knowledge, the widest breadth of inventions that have meaningfully advanced gnomish society as well as the advancement of technology in general, which are two of the major criteria in the gnomes' meritocracy. He's credited with inventing the mechanostriders, which revolutionized several industries, the Deeprun Tram, which opened up unprecedented access between Ironforge and Stormwind City, and--if I recall--the mechsuits and gunships used by the Alliance. It's hard to compete with that Tony Stark level of ingenuity and drive.

I'm sorry, I thought this was an ALLIANCE, not happy faction of friendship where everyone is golly good friends with eachother and leaders just throw away their entire authority on their kingdoms aswell as their self respect because they're friends with an 18 year old boy

Absolutely ridiculous.

I mean, yeah. In the real world, world leaders meet up and form interpersonal relationships all the time, man, have you paid no attention to world politics in the last 2,000 years?

I'm sorry you don't understand how interpersonal relationships form an integral core of diplomacy, but I suppose the beginning of March 2021 is as good a time as ever to learn this.

[Raisei]

I'm sorry, I thought this was an ALLIANCE, not happy faction of friendship where everyone is golly good friends with eachother and leaders just throw away their entire authority on their kingdoms aswell as their self respect because they're friends with an 18 year old boy

Absolutely ridiculous.

Again, you obviously do not even understand how the Alliance functions. None of the racial leaders have discarded the authority over their kingdoms. Except for those that do not have a kingdom anymore because of the Horde of course.

The High King is not the same as a Warchief, that forces you into slavery and then decides every aspect of your races future, he is just the military commander for the simple sake of having a functioning chain of command. Every military person can tell you how important that is.

But apart from the the racial leaders are still completely sovereign rulers of their domains. Anduin can't remove them at will, he can't decide over their heads, he can't even stop them from refusing his orders because it is an ALLIANCE. They are not his subjects, they joined together by free will to defend against the regular atrocities of the Horde.

As an example while technically Anduin would command the Night Elven military, Tyrande decided to do her own thing and leave the confines of the Alliance for her revenge, but since her participation is voluntary, Anduin can't just bypass her will and command the Nelfs to not follow her. Genn then said that he would come with them and help Tyrande to pay back what the Nelfs have done for the Gilneans. He is not asking permission.

Obviously such a bond ONLY works if there are good relations between the races and despite what you seem to think, this one works because the races have strong ties among each other.

So no, no one in the Alliance has discarded or thrown away their self-respect or authority, that is what they did in the Horde, where the Blood Oath literally made you nothing but a brainless weapon for the Warchief to wield and a ten-thousand year old culture like the Nightborn signed over their future to an Undead High Elf with a reputation for mass murder.

You probably should wonder why the Nightborn did not revolt against that decision instead of making up reasons why the humans would revolt against Anduin.

[Verdugo]

Obviously such a bond ONLY works if there are good relations between the races

OR because writers are pro-Wrynn shills.

[Raisei]

OR because writers are pro-Wrynn shills.

OR because haters just want to see the Alliance fall and thus it's success makes them invent and believe ridiculous notions like this.

You might have missed it, but the pro-Wrynn shills have just writen a story where the Warchief of the Horde abuses the youngest and only member of the Wrynn family to commit brutal crimes for her. Crimes that will haunt Anduin for the rest of his life even if, and that is one big-ass "if", he is not forced to sacrifice his life in the end to redeem the Banshee.

[Darththeo]

I mean listen, if you think that naming an exclusively military position after a title that historically, in the real world "filled more variety of roles" and therefore has connotations beyond that somehow makes sense then you do you buddy.

Because it does. You seem to think "This title is used in many ways therefore using it in an exclusive way makes no sense." You argument of WHY it doesn't make sense literally doesn't make any sense. Just because a title covers many things does not mean in a fictional world, it cannot be used to be an exclusive thing.

The Camrbidge Dictionary cites "general" as meaning a high ranking officer in a military setting, Merriam Webster does the same.

I literally do not care about niche uses. In the OVERWHELMING amount of cases the title of general means a high ranking officer

The KKK call people "wizards" but you don't see that taking prevalence over it's more traditional meaning in ANY discourse.

Your argument was they should use an EXCLUSIVELY military title. General is NOT exclusively military. Therefore, per your argument, High General is NOT appropriate. If your argument is that they should use a title that is most associated with the military, I could then counter, the title King is most associated with leadership and as the position is a position of a leader of the joint military ... it fits.

Seriously, if you cannot see at this point your argument has boiled down to "I don't like therefore it makes no sense" I don't know what else to tell you.

Yes, that's right I CHOSE not to ammend the typo.

Are you perchance from the planet Mars? Or are you a literal brick wall?

At least I know the difference between "I don't like this" and "This doesn't make sense."

[ClassicPeon]

that was the Alliance of Lordaeron

the Grand Alliance only had Stormwind and Theramore with some few Stromic and Lordaeron stragglers until the said Alliance Lordaeronians were wiped out by the Horde and Gilneas, Stromgarde, and Kul Tiras rejoined recently

That alliance is what became the alliance we know. By introducig dwarves and elves. Like i wrote.

Thats why it has a human king

[Azerate]

So the son of the previous king became the new king. Yeah, very weird indeed.

[Eggroll]

I don't feel that way. We won all conflicts with the Horde and kept the moral high ground on top. No matter how depraved their methods get, we beat them every time in the end.
We have much better characters, so much so that many Hordes feel the constant need to claim them for themselves (like Alleria and Valeera), while they fall over themselves crying about the characters they have (Baine).

All in all it's pretty nice being Alliance. Would be even better if the Horde wouldn't be allowed to torch our cities every 2 years, but that is just what they are.

What use is the moral high ground to the Alliance citizens when the leadership fails to protect them from genocide like Teldrassil?
What use is the moral high ground when we keep losing territory, when Alliance citizens keep losing their home?
Moral high ground is just a word. The Alliance did nothing but lose on all fronts, despite the devs saying otherwise.

"Better characters" is debatable.
Anduin used to be a cool character up until and including MoP.
Alleria has been dumbed down to be Turalyons arm candy.
Valeera is not Alliance.
Tyrande has been villified because Anduin.
Malfurion isn't even there anymore. Not even as leader of the Night Elves.
Velen is absent, too.
And I'm sick and tired of Jaina, tbh.

[Eggroll]

Why? Because the fleet was too far away, that is why. There really is no mystery there. Anduin desperatedly tried to get people there, but couldn't. Sylvanas tricked them all and by the time the ruse was revealed it was too late.

He did NOT desperateley try get people there. On the contrary.

[Overlordd]

So the son of the previous king became the new king. Yeah, very weird indeed.

High King isn't an inherited title.

[Super Dickmann]

OP is entirely correct and there's a reason the Vanilla version of the Alliance is the most interesting, but there's a decent constituency in the Alliance that do want to play the Captain America faction of masochistically good guys who differ only in visuals and ultimately pay deference to a teenager. The ways to fix it are endless and as simple as having one (1) faction leader wake up and realize that they've been following orders from a kid who's had them agree to a white peace after genocide because his dad was equally inexplicably in charge, but without both writer and player interest there's no way it happens.

We've played this game with the night elves, then the worgen, then the void elves and finally the Dark Iron and each time some spice is tried to be added to the faction it is immediately watered down. Compare WC2 Genn and Anduin's adoptive dad Genn, slavering Dark Iron and scheming Moira from Vanilla to Cata with Anduin adoptive mom Moira or any night elf appearance up until Tyrande's current stint. Everything eventually heads towards the lawful good event horizon. You can conceptualize any number of stories where a night elf breaks into Stormwind, discovers a forbidden dictionary and the definition of the word 'Alliance' and promptly refuses to further participate in ventures that do not confer their race any benefit for the sake of someone who's an embryo compared to them in experience and it's all for naught if it's not followed through on.

[Overlordd]

Again, you obviously do not even understand how the Alliance functions. None of the racial leaders have discarded the authority over their kingdoms. Except for those that do not have a kingdom anymore because of the Horde of course.

The High King is not the same as a Warchief, that forces you into slavery and then decides every aspect of your races future, he is just the military commander for the simple sake of having a functioning chain of command. Every military person can tell you how important that is.

But apart from the the racial leaders are still completely sovereign rulers of their domains. Anduin can't remove them at will, he can't decide over their heads, he can't even stop them from refusing his orders because it is an ALLIANCE. They are not his subjects, they joined together by free will to defend against the regular atrocities of the Horde.

As an example while technically Anduin would command the Night Elven military, Tyrande decided to do her own thing and leave the confines of the Alliance for her revenge, but since her participation is voluntary, Anduin can't just bypass her will and command the Nelfs to not follow her. Genn then said that he would come with them and help Tyrande to pay back what the Nelfs have done for the Gilneans. He is not asking permission.

Obviously such a bond ONLY works if there are good relations between the races and despite what you seem to think, this one works because the races have strong ties among each other.

So no, no one in the Alliance has discarded or thrown away their self-respect or authority, that is what they did in the Horde, where the Blood Oath literally made you nothing but a brainless weapon for the Warchief to wield and a ten-thousand year old culture like the Nightborn signed over their future to an Undead High Elf with a reputation for mass murder.

You probably should wonder why the Nightborn did not revolt against that decision instead of making up reasons why the humans would revolt against Anduin.

I love it. That whole wall of text to make the excuse of a military rank being given to an 18 year old boy because his father held the rank.

I love it so much. So much mental gymnastics going on. To basically come to the conclusion that an 18 year old boy king is acting supreme commander of the alliance and that the other alliance leaders aren't bothered with this because Anduin is a friendly guy.

Haha

[DingDongKing]

It's naive to assume that the game will ever provide an authentic representation of what an Alliance or Horde would actually be like.

At this point what I would really like - as a former player who still loves the world - is a strong animated series that does a great job of telling the Warcraft story.

[Raisei]

What use is the moral high ground to the Alliance citizens when the leadership fails to protect them from genocide like Teldrassil?
What use is the moral high ground when we keep losing territory, when Alliance citizens keep losing their home?
Moral high ground is just a word. The Alliance did nothing but lose on all fronts, despite the devs saying otherwise.

All true. But the simple counter is that even if we would lower ourself to the level of the Horde this would not stop. We will never be able to annihilate the Horde no matter what it does and they will never be able to wipe us out, because player factions can't be destroyed fully. The faction war will never come to a satisfying conclusion, hence why I find it such a pointless plot.
I am just as pissed that the Horde got out of another genocide without any guilt and punishment, but it cheers me up to see how much they hate their own faction now because of Baine and Calia, while not understanding that their own lust for faction war and being the villain is exactly what "destroyed" the Horde.

"Better characters" is debatable.
Anduin used to be a cool character up until and including MoP.

I like his development. He is growing into the role of King and he is confronted with very difficult choices. I also love how much willpower he has for an 18 year old kid. Early BFA Anduin was great in many scenes.

Alleria has been dumbed down to be Turalyons arm candy.

Not my observation. But then, she is my racial leader so I might be biased.

Valeera is not Alliance.

True, though she is a lot more Alliance then Horde and I don't think she could or should be called neutral. I actually meant Vareesa Sanguinar though and mixed the two up.

Vareesa isn't exactly Alliance either of course, but her loyalty belongs to Anduin and no one else, so she counts as an Alliance operative even if she isn't officially part of the faction.

Tyrande has been villified because Anduin.

Not yet and I am pretty sure we will prevent that from happening. She is understandibly anti-peace, but she is not a villain.

Malfurion isn't even there anymore. Not even as leader of the Night Elves.
Velen is absent, too.

Malfurion we know was active on Darkshore, he is at the moment probably in charge of his people in Kalimdor since Tyrande hopped into the Maw. I have no doubt he will play a part later.

Velen is an odd case, I agree. Maybe the writers just felt that after the prominent role he played in Legion he needed a break.

And I'm sick and tired of Jaina, tbh.

No, not at all. I will never get tired of seeing Jaina wipe the floor with enemies. Be it Hordes or Maw creatures. And seeing her almost turn Baine into frozen Hamburger with the line "Is he the bomb this time??!!" still is chilling on so many levels. Which is in good part also because of Laura doing exceptional voice acting with a big emphasis on the "acting".

[Verdugo]

I just love how Raisei doesnt comprehend that people dont like monolithic lawful good grey blob that is the Wrynn alliance. Like, the very thought is utterly alien to him.

[Eggroll]

All true. But the simple counter is that even if we would lower ourself to the level of the Horde this would not stop. We will never be able to annihilate the Horde no matter what it does and they will never be able to wipe us out, because player factions can't be destroyed fully. The faction war will never come to a satisfying conclusion, hence why I find it such a pointless plot.
I am just as pissed that the Horde got out of another genocide without any guilt and punishment, but it cheers me up to see how much they hate their own faction now because of Baine and Calia, while not understanding that their own lust for faction war and being the villain is exactly what "destroyed" the Horde.

What I forgot to mention: The Alliance not only failed to prevent the genocide on their people, lost considerable lands but also people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde.

And what did the "winning" Alliance actually achieve? And I don't mean revenge, I mean getting back territory for instance? The Alliance lost yet more territory or had it made uninhabitable by the Horde.

And when it's not the Horde it's just Blizzard devs giving the night elves the middle finger like in Cata when they destroyed Darkshore and Auberdine or Stormwind Park. Or with the end of Legion having Cenarion Hold wiped out by Sargeras.

Regarding Malfurion: active in Darkshore or not, the night elf faction isn't represented by a leader in the current iteration of the game just like any other race is. Just another oopsie by the devs.

[Maljinwo]

A realistic portrayal of any faction would've drained their armies and resources years ago

[Soon-TM]

An 18 year old boy king is acting supreme commander of the alliance and that the other alliance leaders aren't bothered with this because Anduin is a friendly guy.

Haha

Well, that's the entire point of a textbook Purity Sue such as Teh Golden Boi. I never understood Andy fans and their commitment to such a boring, stereotypical character.

there's a decent constituency in the Alliance that do want to play the Captain America faction of masochistically good guys who differ only in visuals and ultimately pay deference to a teenager.

Good sir, I must ask you for permission for using this as a sig. It's simply too good to let it pass

[Ardenaso]

What use is the moral high ground to the Alliance citizens when the leadership fails to protect them from genocide like Teldrassil?
What use is the moral high ground when we keep losing territory, when Alliance citizens keep losing their home?
Moral high ground is just a word. The Alliance did nothing but lose on all fronts, despite the devs saying otherwise.

"Better characters" is debatable.
Anduin used to be a cool character up until and including MoP.
Alleria has been dumbed down to be Turalyons arm candy.
Valeera is not Alliance.
Tyrande has been villified because Anduin.
Malfurion isn't even there anymore. Not even as leader of the Night Elves.
Velen is absent, too.
And I'm sick and tired of Jaina, tbh.

don't forget Shandris being a human male fangirl; might as well get some skin whitening and pretend to be a High Elf

[Soon-TM]

people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde.

You don't know how lucky you are for having all those utter bores brought away from you.