The Story Is Utter Garbage Now

[Verdugo]

Sounds like you're trying to minimalize Shadowlands by stripping it of detail while simultaneously fleshing out WC3 in comparison?

He is being generous to Shadowlands then, because details only make it worse.

[Aucald]

He is being generous to Shadowlands then, because details only make it worse.

Depends on the details in question. Shadowlands has its fair share of flaws, but it's not a fair comparison to overly elaborate on X and reduce Y to a bare-bones caricature of itself, either.

[Shadowferal]

How human was this jailer supposed to be?

[Verdugo]

How human was this jailer supposed to be?

Very human. He has nipples.

[Shadowferal]

Very human. He has nipples.

"O the humanity!"
Kinda does actually touch upon the point though. Is he..she (it?) supposed to express humanity?

[javierdsv]

I actually liked the story.

Plus. This is a videogame, not a book. Mild drama is enough. And they know it, why spend more money on something that already sells?

[Aucald]

"O the humanity!"
Kinda does actually touch upon the point though. Is he..she (it?) supposed to express humanity?

Depends on if you think humanity is defined by having nipples. Most of the WoW races have nipples, as do all mammals in real life - so the operant question would be if having nipples makes your dog human?

I would imagine the Jailer was humanoid in life, if it was ever alive - and its current state is a case of residual self-image, basically it holding on to the form it recognizes itself as having albeit with some alterations over time.

[Utrrabbit]

No, not literally every single piece of story/lore this expansion, but a lot to be sure. Let me give you a potent example of what I mean:

Kel'thuzad. He was a character I was looking forward to. What I wanted was for the Kel'thuzad of Warcraft 3 yore to return and give us an excellent performance. What we instead received was Kel'thuzad from Hearthstone - transported directly into WoW - a comical and one-dimensional sandbag solely existing to drive the terrible main plotline forward.

Kel'thuzad was a layered and interesting villain in WC3 and early WoW, by all accounts a sociopath in life yet terrified and feeble when faced with the might of the Scourge, transformed into a deathly loyal servant of The Lich King, willing to die by the hands of Arthas, knowing he would later ascend to Lichdom. Even afterward, one poignant scene with him and Arthas shows him being viewed as a friend by Arthas - an interesting twist of fate. He was at all times absolutely competent, yet evil, but not in a comical nature.

So... Why? Why can't we get more grounded, layered and mature stories in WoW these days? Isn't the majority of the playerbase in their late 20s/early 30s now? I can't imagine many teenagers are playing this game so late into its lifespan. Why this insipid adherence to Marvel-esque quip-happy storytelling? I feel like the writing team would love to just write all of WoW in the style of the Traveler series of children's books.

Calling kel a layered and interesting villian is like calling belle from twilight a layered and interesting person. Neither one was.

[Overlordd]

Warcraft 3 was about as deep as a Saturday morning cartoon, and that's totally OK. For a mostly-action focused series, that's all it needed and needs to be. Notice how cutscenes in Warcraft are never all that long, how motivations and dialogue are typically pretty basic and straightforward. I'd say a majority of people's love of characters and their stories revolve around the gaps and subtext we fill in for them, and that's perfect for this format.

What's with everyone here being a revisionist in here? How the fuck is a guy killing civilians before they turn into zombies, him stabbing his father in the hearth, to him travelling all the way to Northrend where he's cursed to stick in ice for the remaining... what 10 years?

How exactly is that a saturday morning cartoon.

What the fuck is it with posters in here trying their best to install a revision that wasn't even fucking there.
I'd like to know what kind of fucking cartoons you all watched as a kid on a saturday morning.

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Calling kel a layered and interesting villian is like calling belle from twilight a layered and interesting person. Neither one was.

Garbage comparison but okay.

[arr0gance]

Ah, yes. The famous "I don't think you actually believe what you say so I win" argument.

Nobody's trying to "win" this argument. I'm just pointing out how shallow this take is and how it generally seems to be used as a talking point for people who simply don't like the game anymore.

[Tyrannica]

They can't do proper villains anymore.

[Thundering]

It is what happens when the team that develops the lore is biased and does not know it very well.

[Ohmmega]

No, not literally every single piece of story/lore this expansion, but a lot to be sure. Let me give you a potent example of what I mean:

Kel'thuzad. He was a character I was looking forward to. What I wanted was for the Kel'thuzad of Warcraft 3 yore to return and give us an excellent performance. What we instead received was Kel'thuzad from Hearthstone - transported directly into WoW - a comical and one-dimensional sandbag solely existing to drive the terrible main plotline forward.

Kel'thuzad was a layered and interesting villain in WC3 and early WoW, by all accounts a sociopath in life yet terrified and feeble when faced with the might of the Scourge, transformed into a deathly loyal servant of The Lich King, willing to die by the hands of Arthas, knowing he would later ascend to Lichdom. Even afterward, one poignant scene with him and Arthas shows him being viewed as a friend by Arthas - an interesting twist of fate. He was at all times absolutely competent, yet evil, but not in a comical nature.

So... Why? Why can't we get more grounded, layered and mature stories in WoW these days? Isn't the majority of the playerbase in their late 20s/early 30s now? I can't imagine many teenagers are playing this game so late into its lifespan. Why this insipid adherence to Marvel-esque quip-happy storytelling? I feel like the writing team would love to just write all of WoW in the style of the Traveler series of children's books.

tbh except vanilla period, wow lore is garbage

[Edward Wu]

Nobody's trying to "win" this argument. I'm just pointing out how shallow this take is and how it generally seems to be used as a talking point for people who simply don't like the game anymore.

Your reaction is the typical knee-jerk reaction to viewpoints you can't relate to. I've seen it so many times, accusing the other party of nostalgia is the biggest cope by some modern WoW players. You don't see what the other person sees, so instead of putting in the effort to understand, the lazy route is taken instead and you chalk it up to nostalgia.

[arr0gance]

Your reaction is the typical knee-jerk reaction to viewpoints you can't relate to. I've seen it so many times, accusing the other part of nostalgia is the biggest cope by som modern WoW players.

You got me dude. The story in your video game where you slay internet dragons for imaginary loot was infinitely better when it was about {insert favorite expansion's bad guy here}.

[Edward Wu]

You got me dude. The story in your video game where you slay internet dragons for imaginary loot was infinitely better when it was about {insert favorite expansion's bad guy here}.

And as if right on cue, he comes out with yet another internet argumentative stereotype: Infantilizing the game he plays so he can attempt to downplay the other guy's argument, because he in fact has no argument left whatsoever.

Yikes.

[Edward Wu]

Best part is the “now” qualifier. The story was never that amazing and peaked decades ago. Even at its peak it wasn’t more than a very basic fantasy narrative in which they borrowed from anything else that was successful.

Nowhere in my post did I ever state that it once had great writing or anything. I just want writing that is more mature and isn't one-dimensional Saturday morning cackling nonsense. Apparently this is great writing to you, but it's actually just very average.

My standards really aren't very high, and even average storytelling can be very enjoyable for me, problem is we aren't even close to average anymore. The writing team blows.

[TheFirstOnes]

Nowhere in my post did I ever state that it once had great writing or anything. I just want writing that is more mature and isn't one-dimensional Saturday morning cackling nonsense. Apparently this is great writing to you, but it's actually just very average.

My standards really aren't very high, and even average storytelling can be very enjoyable for me, problem is we aren't even close to average anymore. The writing team blows.

I'd say this is ANYTHING but one dimensional Saturday morning cartoon villain shit. https://www.wowhead.com/item=183742/...ration-preface Also, what's so 1 dimensional about Sargeras' story? or Garrosh? Or even Illidan or Sylvanas? Like, come on bro.

Also, "mature"? Damn, cannot wait for us to get fucked after the Sanctum of Domination raid, and you're still here randomly arguing that "OH NO! THIS GAME ISN'T MATURE ENOUGH HURR!" Did you forget about the SL shorts? The dark nature of the Maw? How fucked the Broken Shore was? Seriously?

[Soon-TM]

Not sure what that even means. Hey if you think warcraft is a super serious narrative with incredible depth i won't deter you in thinking otherwise.

Sure, WC3 story was no Shakespeare !@#$ or anything like that, but it was at least serviceable, and more importantly, it made sense. On the other hand, BC, a lot of Cata and all of WoD and BfA was either a disjointed mess or the adventures of the Mary Sue du jour - and little else. And frankly SL doesn't look a lot better (so far).

[TheFirstOnes]

"but it's actually just very average."

"problem is we aren't even close to average anymore. The writing team blows."

Oh, so you're not only wrong. But you're also dishonest, and in the very same post as well. Nice.

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Sure, WC3 story was no Shakespeare !@#$ or anything like that, but it was at least serviceable, and more importantly, it made sense. On the other hand, BC, a lot of Cata and all of WoD and BfA was either a disjointed mess or the adventures of the Mary Sue du jour - and little else. And frankly SL doesn't look a lot better (so far).

Who's a mary sue? Don't say Sylvanas, cause we literally have in lore reasoning as to why she's as powerful as she is. Also, she's lost multiple times, so you're wrong either way. Cata made sense, so idk what you're on about. WoD's story was fine. And BFA's was good for the narrative it wrote. You just don't like that N'Zoth was rushed, which I get.

TBC, I only agree with cause Blizzard didn't know wtf to do with it story-wise.