Is the UK more liberal or conservative than most of the West, such as Western Europe?

[downnola]

They live under a monarchy, so yeah, I'd say they're more conservative than Western Europe.

[Ivanstone]

They live under a monarchy, so yeah, I'd say they're more conservative than Western Europe.

So does Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

I'm convinced there's something in the water. Probably too much lead piping that needs to be replaced.

[Kallisto]

Hey another thread where we get to split hairs over the definition of word "liberal".

England is right wing. Both economically and socially. They keep on doing shitty right wing stuff like voting for Boris and Maggie, listening to Nigel Farage and allowing Rupert Murdoch to live. Also giving Russian oligarchs unfettered access to their economy was probably not a good idea. Occasionally a leftie gets elected but he has to pander to the shitty right wingers. At least Blair fucked Rupert Murdoch's wife on the way out. That's why I don't give him a hard time.

Yes, they've done some good left wing stuff in the past. Clement Attlee was a swell fucking guy! A lot of England still likes the left wing stuff because its good for them even though they keep voting for shitheads who would try to undo it. Quite frankly if the sensible people (ie Scotland) leave the UK we might get to see what happens when you let the shitheads really take over a country.

It's first past the post that's the problem. Even in England more people vote for left wing (Labour, Lib Dem, Greens.) combined than they do Conservatives.

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So does Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

I'm convinced there's something in the water. Probably too much lead piping that needs to be replaced.

It's Murdoch media. Where his fingers grasp things like Gravity become opinions and not a fact in the minds of the readers.

[Ivanstone]

It's first past the post that's the problem. Even in England more people vote for left wing (Labour, Lib Dem, Greens.) combined than they do Conservatives.

It's Murdoch media. Where his fingers grasp things like Gravity become opinions and not a fact in the minds of the readers.

Yeah but Tories are still the biggest group. More importantly you have to deal with the the election system you have not the one you want. It’s shitty but winning the hard fights matters.

It’s not helping but past history is still applicable. Clement Attlee is probably the best modern PM and lost his next two elections despite handing The UK all kinds of good shit. Rupert Murdoch was nowhere to be seen. England was conservative then and only got more so after Rupert came calling.

[JohnBrown1917]

They live under a monarchy, so yeah, I'd say they're more conservative than Western Europe.

You mean like Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands and Spain?

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It's first past the post that's the problem. Even in England more people vote for left wing (Labour, Lib Dem, Greens.) combined than they do Conservatives.

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It's Murdoch media. Where his fingers grasp things like Gravity become opinions and not a fact in the minds of the readers.

Lib dems are as far away from the left as you can be and not be a hard-right conservative. Meanwhile labour is back in the hands of the righht-wing Blairites, not much of the left-wing if it keeps getting pushed out.

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There is a world of difference between describing someone as liberal and a proponent of neo-liberalism. For me the former is primarily about personal freedoms; the rights and freedoms of people. The latter is about the rights of the market to do whatever the fuck they like, regardless of what it does to people, the planet or anything else.

Thatcher was categorically not a liberal.

Neoliberlism is a just a fancy new word for classic liberalism. The freedom of the market has always been one of the most importan aspects of liberalism, no matter the era.

[dwertius]

At least Blair fucked Rupert Murdoch's wife on the way out. That's why I don't give him a hard time.

Wendi Deng is Chinese intelligence. She was doing all the fucking, both of Murdoch and Blair. Look her up sometime, she's a smart girl.

Amazing no one twigged this when she famously disabled a protester attacking Rupert Murdoch with ninja skills during Murdoch's parliamentary inquisition.

[Ivanstone]

Wendi Deng is Chinese intelligence. She was doing all the fucking, both of Murdoch and Blair. Look her up sometime, she's a smart girl.

Amazing no one twigged this when she famously disabled a protester attacking Rupert Murdoch with ninja skills during Murdoch's parliamentary inquisition.

No she isn't. That's propaganda created by Murdoch because he upset that he doesn't have nice butt and legs like Blair. Even if she is, Murdoch still got cucked by Blair.

I do love that slap video though.

[dwertius]

No she isn't. That's propaganda created by Murdoch because he upset that he doesn't have ike Blair. Even if she is, Murdoch still got cucked by Blair.

I do love that slap video though.

Check out her background on wiki, its pretty clear even without her famously trying to install microphones in the White House that she's Chinese intelligence.

[Dhrizzle]

The UK probably leans further right than most Western European countries, but further left than most Eastern European. Compared to the US the UK is very left, with our main Conservative party enacting policies some in the US would term "radical left," like gay marriage and moving forward with some trans-rights. Economically though our Conservatives maintain a "fuck the poor" policy.

[Felya]

The UK probably leans further right than most Western European countries, but further left than most Eastern European. Compared to the US the UK is very left, with our main Conservative party enacting policies some in the US would term "radical left," like gay marriage and moving forward with some trans-rights. Economically though our Conservatives maintain a "fuck the poor" policy.

Economically is where both US parties are close on the right side. It’s like the virtue signaling argument for corporations. Them having commercials with trans people, is liberals. A random at a BLM protest, is also liberal. The difference is that a corporation is inherently in support of controlling means of production, which makes them right wing. While odds are, a random at a BLM protest, has no means to control production, and is on the left as part of the populace.

Neoliberal is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. For a classic liberal, I need someone to explain how that term is different from MAGA. This is where people get confused about Thatcher and Reagan being liberal, because Milton Friedman was indeed socially liberal. He was in support of gay rights, back in the 70s. But, he was also a massive capitalist. As an economic adviser, he did not advise either Thatcher or Reagan on social policy, so his liberalism is irrelevant. He was a hard core capitalist, but also a liberal...

Free Market =/= Liberty... those are two different scales...

[OwenBurton]

They live under a monarchy, so yeah, I'd say they're more conservative than Western Europe.

British people are progressive -- compared to Americans. But they are probably not much more so compared to Canadians and Australians. And they have much nostalgia for the past -- for the Britain that once was. Admittedly, their society are facing difficulties, perhaps -- but is it not true that many of their problems, they themselves are responsible for, such as their immigration issues? Would there be such massive immigration from certain parts of the world -- had the Britain not colonized the Indian subcontinent and other places for centuries?

The question about the EU is complicated. The British should not always be asking only what the EU can do for them -- but rather what they as a nation, and a people, can do for the rest of the EU -- for the rest of Europe.

[Themius]

Well being liberal in Europe = classical liberalism.

So you can understand the confusion, when some Americans equals liberals to near socialists :P

A lot of Americans are now making the distinction between liberals and progressives/leftist.

Liberals are right wing.

[Mayhem]

they are the only european country with fptp ... they are obviously more conservative than the rest

[OwenBurton]

they are the only european country with fptp ... they are obviously more conservative than the rest

They are the only EU country who has left the EU. Even Poland with its right-wing government and populace seem very pro-European integration.

[Elegiac]

Further to the right. There's a reason the kids call it "TERF Island", to say nothing of its media being vicious and reactionary.

[Gestopft]

Further to the right, for sure. Their politics parallels the US in quite a number of ways.

[Magical Mudcrab]

This could be generalizing a tad, but I'm fairly sure the entire anglosphere is more conservative than the majority of Western Europe. The possible exceptions are New Zealand and Canada, with Canada having some major problems since the dissolution of the various conservative parties (such as the Progressive Conservative party, which was more analogous to the U.K. tories) and them being absorbed into the current conservative party, which has slowly become more American-like in their views (albeit, not nearly to the same degree); however, it should be noted that even as the liberal vote is being split by parties like the Liberals and the New Democratic Party (NDP), they still see major wins and are the leaders of Canada (i.e.: Canada's still primarily liberal, from its perspective).

Though, after that digression, I think it would be fair to say that the U.K. is likely more conservative than Western Europe. There are some U.K.-specific arguments, such as how they have been relatively progressive in the legalization of gay marriage and high levels of immigration, but this does not reflect the current nature of the U.K. Brexit, though won by a small margin, was largely based on xenophobic beliefs and stereotypes against migrants coming in from Europe to steal U.K. jobs, which was parroted by some during the migrant crisis, as well as in the rise (and eventual fall) of parties based in (anti-Islamic) racism like UKIP. It would be a blatant mischaracterization to say they are not still generally a left-leaning country, at least relative to America, but it appears to be slipping slowly away from social liberalism.

[Elegiac]

This could be generalizing a tad, but I'm fairly sure the entire anglosphere is more conservative than the majority of Western Europe.

You aren't wrong. And there's a very specific reason as to why that is.

[Themius]

As someone who was a world traveler for work for close to a decade, I'd say the UK is slightly more liberal, but much more socialist, and also much more progressive. Liberalism means something a bit different than most people think it means. Latin America can often be far more conservative than the US, while some pockets can be more liberal. Most South American big cities suck, meanwhile the rural areas, while exceedingly poor, have a paradise-like charm to them. An untouched natural wonder where the few people who do live there do so more or less harmoniously with nature, living simple lives of subsistence farming and some trading/bartering with supply trucks that come by once a week.

Did you just call the UK "much more socialist"?

[Araevin]

Did you just call the UK "much more socialist"?

I'd say that the British people at large very much love social democratic economic measures over free market economics; they just do not vote that way because other things take precedence. A posh accent and the "right" education and background triggering their inherent classism is more important than actual beliefs.