Boost & mount haha

[Kralljin]

It’s all subjective, there is no real “spirit” of the game written in stone.

Is it subjective?
Yes, but i also don't think one needs to attempt to obfuscate this on something where Blizzard had massive reservations to introduce for years.
The ability to pay to skip past a given content, when anybody that's unwilling to pay has to engage in, is something that cannot be reunited with a version of the game that has become (in)famous for its lack of catchup mechanics.

Let's be honest, the stance of most that i've argued with on this topic can be summed with the following statement:
I don't care, i just want to skip Classic leveling.

I don't think i'm doing anything injustice when i say this.
This however isn't even refuting or enganging to what i'm saying, it's telling me what it reads: I don't care what you're saying.
So in that aspect, trying to mystify the meaning of "spirit of the game" is silly, because it's not really unclear in that regard.

For me, and probably many many others, the spirit of tbc had nothing to do with 1-58, 1-58 had to do with the spirit of classic.

This argument falls apart on the reason that the servers aren't starting at 58 and this is something that people keep ignoring.

If the TBC servers are supposed to be solely about 58 and onwards then why does everybody that's not willing to pay for a boost have to start at 1?

One can twist and turn about what exactly entails the "TBC experience", but when the default option on these servers is start to at level 1, then you can't tell the TBC experience only starts at 58, at least not for a person that hasn't played Classic.

I could realistically argue that NOT changing the game in certain ways is against the sprint of the game too honestly.

I'm just going to repost what i wrote one page ago.

Two pages ago, i strongly implied boosting should have been fixed.
Want to know why?
Because it goes against the spirit of the original game.

Attempting to me paint me as a person that's still riding on "#nochanges" is pretty fucking stupid, especially considering i've also advocated for certain changes, such as timegating T5.
Which does not violate the spirit of the game, the boost does.

If the difference between making a change to preserve the spirit of the game because players found a loophole and refuting one to preserve it, is too difficult for you to grasp, i can't help you.

[ranzino]

While Mage AoE is going to be capped, it doesn't mean a level 70 can't still boost you through. Won't be as fast obviously, but they can still solo the dungeon for you.

means he will have to wait, this BE paladin will not enter the Dark Portal with everybody else on release day

[brandonf]

Is it subjective?
Yes, but i also don't think one needs to attempt to obfuscate this on something where Blizzard had massive reservations to introduce for years.
The ability to pay to skip past a given content, when anybody that's unwilling to pay has to engage in, is something that cannot be reunited with a version of the game that has become (in)famous for its lack of catchup mechanics.

Let's be honest, the stance of most that i've argued with on this topic can be summed with the following statement:
I don't care, i just want to skip Classic leveling.

I don't think i'm doing anything injustice when i say this.
This however isn't even refuting or enganging to what i'm saying, it's telling me what it reads: I don't care what you're saying.
So in that aspect, trying to mystify the meaning of "spirit of the game" is silly, because it's not really unclear in that regard.

This argument falls apart on the reason that the servers aren't starting at 58 and this is something that people keep ignoring.

If the TBC servers are supposed to be solely about 58 and onwards then why does everybody that's not willing to pay for a boost have to start at 1?

One can twist and turn about what exactly entails the "TBC experience", but when the default option on these servers is start to at level 1, then you can't tell the TBC experience only starts at 58, at least not for a person that hasn't played Classic.

I'm just going to repost what i wrote one page ago.

There’s really nothing more to add if you are going to hang onto the notion that there is this set in stone scripture of what the spirit of the game is tbh.

When you say things like this:

This argument falls apart on the reason that the servers aren't starting at 58 and this is something that people keep ignoring.

If the TBC servers are supposed to be solely about 58 and onwards then why does everybody that's not willing to pay for a boost have to start at 1?

One can twist and turn about what exactly entails the "TBC experience", but when the default option on these servers is start to at level 1, then you can't tell the TBC experience only starts at 58, at least not for a person that hasn't played Classic.

It just makes me believe you aren’t understanding what I’m saying.

Instead of hearing “the spirit of the game is different for everyone” I believe you’re hearing “NO the spirit of the game isn’t what YOUR saying it’s what IM saying”.

The answer to your questions have already been posted in my last post lol.

Why does the game start at 1 instead of just 58 then? Because for some people 1-58 may be included in that tbc journey. Why is there a boost? Because to some people 1-58 is classic journey not tbcs.

[Prag]

Is it subjective?
Yes, but i also don't think one needs to attempt to obfuscate this on something where Blizzard had massive reservations to introduce for years.
The ability to pay to skip past a given content, when anybody that's unwilling to pay has to engage in, is something that cannot be reunited with a version of the game that has become (in)famous for its lack of catchup mechanics.

Let's be honest, the stance of most that i've argued with on this topic can be summed with the following statement:
I don't care, i just want to skip Classic leveling.

I don't think i'm doing anything injustice when i say this.
This however isn't even refuting or enganging to what i'm saying, it's telling me what it reads: I don't care what you're saying.
So in that aspect, trying to mystify the meaning of "spirit of the game" is silly, because it's not really unclear in that regard.

This argument falls apart on the reason that the servers aren't starting at 58 and this is something that people keep ignoring.

If the TBC servers are supposed to be solely about 58 and onwards then why does everybody that's not willing to pay for a boost have to start at 1?

One can twist and turn about what exactly entails the "TBC experience", but when the default option on these servers is start to at level 1, then you can't tell the TBC experience only starts at 58, at least not for a person that hasn't played Classic.

I'm just going to repost what i wrote one page ago.

You're haphazardly conflating the "Classic experience" and "TBC experience" as the "spirit of the original game". For many people, TBC was their classic experience, or first exposure to WoW. Those who were eager to experience Classic (pre-TBC) and see what they missed, like me, did so and likely enjoyed Classic.

This won't be the same on TBC launch. It won't be people discovering WoW for the first time and associating TBC with the pre-58 experience.

You've already tried to minimize the argument of "I don't want to level to 58 to experience TBC", which I think is a massive oversight on your behalf. Even without a paid boost, the leveling zones in Classic are dead right now, at least as far as group content goes. I don't need to expand on this, but the Classic experience I had at launch is not visible today. Even at 60, it's mostly GDKP runs for MC/Ony, so gear progression is all fucked for new 60's.

All that to say, I don't think the pre-58 TBC experience without a paid boost would be nearly as meaningful as you're making it. It would be a miserable, lonely experience of following Questie markers until you can finally go to Outlands.

[Flexs]

You're haphazardly conflating the "Classic experience" and "TBC experience" as the "spirit of the original game". For many people, TBC was their classic experience, or first exposure to WoW. Those who were eager to experience Classic (pre-TBC) and see what they missed, like me, did so and likely enjoyed Classic.

This won't be the same on TBC launch. It won't be people discovering WoW for the first time and associating TBC with the pre-58 experience.

You've already tried to minimize the argument of "I don't want to level to 58 to experience TBC", which I think is a massive oversight on your behalf. Even without a paid boost, the leveling zones in Classic are dead right now, at least as far as group content goes. I don't need to expand on this, but the Classic experience I had at launch is not visible today. Even at 60, it's mostly GDKP runs for MC/Ony, so gear progression is all fucked for new 60's.

All that to say, I don't think the pre-58 TBC experience without a paid boost would be nearly as meaningful as you're making it. It would be a miserable, lonely experience of following Questie markers until you can finally go to Outlands.

You are pretty much summing up the road to a game like retail. It is precisely these points that we need to not have a level 58 boost. This 58 boost isn't "some changes", it's a massive part of the game you're missing due to down right laziness.

[brandonf]

You are pretty much summing up the road to a game like retail. It is precisely these points that we need to not have a level 58 boost. This 58 boost isn't "some changes", it's a massive part of the game you're missing due to down right laziness.

As someone who holds an opinion I completely disagree with, I have to ask, what do you think the overall goal of the classic genre is? Keep in mind I’m not speaking of the goal of vanilla, tbc, or wotlk back then, I’m asking today. What do you think the goal of bringing back classic is?

[Prag]

You are pretty much summing up the road to a game like retail. It is precisely these points that we need to not have a level 58 boost. This 58 boost isn't "some changes", it's a massive part of the game you're missing due to down right laziness.

The Classic community has already opted for what you’re calling “laziness”, which is why it didn’t even take 6 months for dungeon boosting to dominate the leveling process.

[Exodeus]

The Classic community has already opted for what you’re calling “laziness”, which is why it didn’t even take 6 months for dungeon boosting to dominate the leveling process.

Don't be fooled the people kicking up a storm over this are the boosters, they are seeing their lost gold or IRL money go away with this blizzard boost.
I mean read the comments who with half a braincell would call this pay to win if they aren't just trolling or looking out for their own interest.

[brandonf]

Don't be fooled the people kicking up a storm over this are the boosters, they are seeing their lost gold or IRL money go away with this blizzard boost.
I mean read the comments who with half a braincell would call this pay to win if they aren't just trolling or looking out for their own interest.

Idk if it was this thread or not but one of the people kicking up a storm actually said he was mad about this because he leveled a Paladin specifically to boost people in tbc. No wonder he is mad lol.

[Kralljin]

You're haphazardly conflating the "Classic experience" and "TBC experience" as the "spirit of the original game". For many people, TBC was their classic experience, or first exposure to WoW.

Oh please, don't tell me i'm conflating things when you attempt sell that "Classic experience" means "TBC Experience" to people that started in TBC.

An experience, that by that way, started from level one.

Even without a paid boost, the leveling zones in Classic are dead right now, at least as far as group content goes.

I always find at an amazing situation to be in when two people who disagree with me on the same issue make two statements that are in direct opposition to each other.

A lot is gonna lvling lol. Ppl are super hyped for TBC. Ppl dont like to pay extra money so boost will be used in minor >< U assume 50% is goin to buy boos or what? xD Lol u even played classic?

You know what?
Before i'll engage this arguement, maybe you boost advocates should first figure out what is actually the situation on the Classic servers.

All that to say, I don't think the pre-58 TBC experience without a paid boost would be nearly as meaningful as you're making it. It would be a miserable, lonely experience of following Questie markers until you can finally go to Outlands.

I've never claimed it's going to be meaningful to those people, the crux is that you're paying to skip something that anybody else who doesn't pay will be going through.

There’s really nothing more to add if you are going to hang onto the notion that there is this set in stone scripture of what the spirit of the game is tbh.

It's not a "stone scripture", but don't try to pass a level boost as a minute adjustment, it's a massive breakaway.

And this implication of me being a "#nochanges" person continous to be false, simply because i am against some changes, doesn't mean against any change.
The boost is however, is one that's a step too far for me.

Instead of hearing “the spirit of the game is different for everyone” I believe you’re hearing “NO the spirit of the game isn’t what YOUR saying it’s what IM saying”.

Everybody has their own definition, this is mine.
You're free to present yours, i refute them based on certain reasons, you're free to disagree with those as well.

This is called a discussion, if you cannot this basic reality that people with different views clash, then that's not really my problem.

Why does the game start at 1 instead of just 58 then? Because for some people 1-58 may be included in that tbc journey. Why is there a boost? Because to some people 1-58 is classic journey not tbcs.

And then why is at a paid service?
It's not like there is an extraordinary amount of work involved for Blizzard.

Don't be fooled the people kicking up a storm over this are the boosters, they are seeing their lost gold or IRL money go away with this blizzard boost.

I haven't even boosted a single character in Classic to 60 (which are 4 in total btw.) nor that of any other, but thanks for the random accusation.

This accusation seems even more stupid under the light that there was a pretty huge thread on MMO-C regarding a gold wipe and i happened to be in favour of the goldwipe, which doesn't make a lot of sense as i would have advocated for the deletion of gold that i, going by this accusation, wanted to make with boosting.

But yes, whenever somebody argues in favour / against something, it's only because they directly gain some form of currency out of it, no other option.

[Prag]

Oh please, don't tell me i'm conflating things when you attempt sell that "Classic experience" means "TBC Experience" to people that started in TBC.

An experience, that by that way, started from level one.

Except that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re assuming that people who want the TBC experience also want the Classic experience, or that they should have to endure it.

Maybe the intention is NOT to endure them in an all-or-nothing, linear manner for the Classic series.

A single boost per account is a pretty targeted restriction. You either get:

- people who know exactly what they want to play (Class, Realm, Faction) and they know they want to play TBC.

- people who don’t know, use the boost, dislike something and re-level the next thing (from 1).

This is such a small, insignificant hill to die on. If you’re going to worry about the disruption, it should be focused on the abuse of profession CDs the boost will bring.

But please, complain more about some leveling nostalgia that barely had a 3-month shelf life after the Classic community destroyed it on their own, no intervention from Blizzard needed.

[crusadernero]

I suppose players in BC also gotta make a living. Missing out on "Helping" low lvls in the awesome classic leveling experience - dungeon boosts.

[Lollis]

But please, complain more about some leveling nostalgia that barely had a 3-month shelf life after the Classic community destroyed it on their own, no intervention from Blizzard needed.

"Vanilla levelling was all about the journey" - Proceeds to aoe spam dungeons, and even did dungeon raid xp exploit before it was fixed.

Always made me laugh.

[crusadernero]

"Vanilla levelling was all about the journey" - Proceeds to aoe spam dungeons, and even did dungeon raid xp exploit before it was fixed.

Always made me laugh.

Whats even more funny is that everyone who preached for classic to return always praised the world and leveling. It was all about the journey to 60. Even several profiles in the streaming world said this. Couldnt wait to enter Azeroth and experience wow as it was supposed to be played!

Goes ahead spending all day, everyday, in dungeons with optimal cleave/aoe grp.
Farms dungeons this way until eyes bleed.
Reach 60.
Regret everything.

[Kralljin]

Except that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re assuming that people who want the TBC experience also want the Classic experience, or that they should have to endure it.

Because leveling from 1 is part of TBC, just like you have to do on those servers meant for the "TBC experience" if you're unwilling to hand Blizzard more cash.

This is such a small, insignificant hill to die on. If you’re going to worry about the disruption, it should be focused on the abuse of profession CDs the boost will bring.

A few pages earlier.

and the people that stay for the ride are left with prospect of said boost getting abused by botters & people abusing it for profession alts.

An arguement that literally none of the advocates felt worth addressing by the way.

But please, complain more about some leveling nostalgia that barely had a 3-month shelf life after the Classic community destroyed it on their own, no intervention from Blizzard needed.

Where's the nostalgia in my posts?
I said leveling is part of the TBC experience, that's it. Period.

And this discussion about boosting is also something i've already discussed at length, so i'll leave it at "there is maybe more to this than "classic leveling sucks".
As i don't feel the urge to continously dig through my post history because some person that entered this discussion at page X thinks they're smart for pointing something out that someone else did pages earlier.

[Broken Fox]

Hell yeah boosts are great. Classic leveling is pure ass, gimme the raids.

[RoKPaNda]

This is probably the biggest non-issue in WoW and I'm glad to see Blizzard stand up to the lies that the community tells about the importance of the leveling experience.

Quite honestly this one simple one time boost is literally the difference between me playing BC or not playing BC. If I had to level through Classic again, which is a completely unfun experience (probably why people get boosted through it?) I honestly wouldn't even consider playing BC classic. My Classic class got absolutely shit on in BC so I'd need to reroll if I didn't want to be carried. It wouldn't be worth it without the one time boost.

[mercutiouk]

This is probably the biggest non-issue in WoW and I'm glad to see Blizzard stand up to the lies that the community tells about the importance of the leveling experience.

Quite honestly this one simple one time boost is literally the difference between me playing BC or not playing BC. If I had to level through Classic again, which is a completely unfun experience (probably why people get boosted through it?) I honestly wouldn't even consider playing BC classic. My Classic class got absolutely shit on in BC so I'd need to reroll if I didn't want to be carried. It wouldn't be worth it without the one time boost.

This.

It's a fairly big nothing.
Yes, OMG they sold something. I don't really jive with it other times but... meh.

It's literally a 1 character classic levelling grind skip. End of.
Getting 1 toon to TBC level for no effort isn't going to break anything.
There's a LOT of ppl don't appreciate the "world of walking" classic experience until mounted and epic mounted. This avoids that, probably brings a few more folks in and we all get healthier realm pops going into TBC. It's a non-issue outside of knee-jerking folk who want to complain at everything.

[Prag]

Because leveling from 1 is part of TBC, just like you have to do on those servers meant for the "TBC experience" if you're unwilling to hand Blizzard more cash.

So, like everything else in life and completely in line with both their retail product and the industry norm?

Perhaps you’ve had to repeat yourself because you’ve failed to convincingly explain why your opinion is accurate and theirs is not.

58 isn’t the finish line and this is a choice that nobody is required to take or negatively impacted by those who do.

[kukkamies]

I'll just copy and paste my response from another thread because you aren't even worth the effort.

That's just you trying to rationalize liking p2w. The same thing can be said with all mobile games or world of tanks too. If you start 5 years later than others and put in 1000 euros to catch up then it's not pay to win anymore?
Does that affect other vanilla patches? Since After Naxxramas came out MC and AQ are old content.

We even have Belfs and Draenei that especially don't get the p2w boost. They even limited it at only 1. It's very clear it's a pay money to gain power feature that they limited.