WoW Necromancer Hero Class

[Teriz]

Runic Power, as the entire theme of the DK is built around.

Everything about the DK comes back to the Runeblades they use and master. They master the use of this weapon, they are martial combatants, and the magic within these blades simply augment their own ability to deal damage in combat.

Necromancy is simply the type of magic they channel through Runic Power. Death Knights do not innately have spellcasting capability, everything is sourced back to the use of Runes.

Again, this all plays into the Anti-Paladin archetype which is what the DK is at its core. Blizzard themselves built the entire WC3 Hero with this name and archetype in mind, it's really no surprise that the WoW DK follows through on this archetype. All of the summoning themes are simply carry-overs from the Necromancer concepts that were left unused, and added to the DK to flavour them further. It's no different than Warlocks having Metamorphosis when it was convenient to have. It doesn't redefine Warlocks into 'Demon Hunters' simply because of the themes and abilities they use; they are still archetyped as Fel Sorcerers/Summoners.

So you actually believe Blizzard would create another entire necromancer class simply because DKs use runic power instead of mana?

The difference between Warlocks and Metamorphosis and DKs and Necromancy is that the entire DK concept is based in necromancy. Metamorphosis was just one ability and concept that could be implemented or removed from Warlocks, and not dramatically alter the entire class. If you remove Necromancy from the DK class, you no longer have the DK class.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah, let's compare Rock it turret to Gnomish Flame turret;

As a Tinker for me to use Rock it turret I would just need to reach level 6 or 7 and press the ability the button. A turret would then appear, having stats based on my passives, level, and gear.

As an engineer for me to use Gnomish Flame Turret, I would have to level my class to level 5 in order to pick up the engineering profession. Then I would need to level multiple levels of engineering in order to get the ability to craft the gnomish flame turret (it requires Outland engineering so its quite a few levels). In order to craft 3 of this device, I would need an adamantite frame, 2 handfuls of fel bolts, 3 Elemental Blasting powders, and a fel iron casing.

Now, in order to craft an Adamantite Frame I would need 4 adamantite bars and a primal earth.

In order to get an adamantite bar you need 2 adamantite ores and the ability to smelt adamantite.

In order to get 1 adamantite ore, you'll need to combine 10 adamantite nuggets (in order to get enough nuggets for the bars, you're going to need about 80 nuggets).

In order to get adamantite nuggets, you'll need to mine adamantite deposits, which are only in certain parts of Outland.

And we haven't even gotten to the other regents yet.

Yeah, totally like a Tinker class....

- - - Updated - - -



As a player you can play as a profession and a class at the same time. They don't compete with each other. Thus a Tinker with a turret ability doesn't interfere with an engineer crafting a turret. In fact, the engineering profession could actually benefit from the Tinker class in that it would give them another mail user to sell their armor to, and possibly another gun user for them to sell their weapon crafts to. Not to mention a tech profession should get items to craft specifically for a tech class.

So basically, because you're using materials instead of class resource...that somehow separates them? I find it impossible to believe you don't see how asinine that is. If you're going to say that necromancers and death knights are the exact same because death knight can sort of replicate necromancer powers then tinker and engineer are the exact same thing since engineer can sort of replicate any abilities a tinker might have.

- - - Updated - - -

Immortality is their goal, so yes that is the point. They want to be undead and ever-lasting.

If we're on the point of Necromancy is only evil, then how do you view the Death Knight's stance? They are defacto users of Necromancy and transmit disease and death in all three specs. There is no real example of a truly 'Good' DK in WoW, every one of them is either evil or neutral aligned. They are still fully playable.

Are you trying to say that there can not be an evil-aligned class? Because if so, then explain the Death Knight in your own words. That they can not *choose* to be good aligned should not excuse them from being playable; by all means your argument is that Evil-aligned classes *can not* be playable.

A Playable Necromancer simply entails a neutral stance while still pursuing the dark arts; much like how Warlocks are perceived.



A soul is life. Life fuels Fel magic. The whole point of creating Soulshards is to capture life and consume it as Fel magic. They are destroying souls by consuming Soulshards. How have you missed this key feature?



Is that why Blizzard considered making a Necromancer class as far back as Wrath of the Lich King?

https://www.engadget.com/2009-01-29-...-released.html

"There were three front runners for the hero class to appear in LK:
Necromancer, a ranged caster with corpse explode and such. Some of this ended up getting incorporated into Death Knight
Rune master: "think rogue or monk type character"
And, of course, Death Knight."

In lore, most warlocks don't really use fel. The ones that use fel are outliers and typically considered evil. Most warlocks use shadow or fire magic instead because it's not as corrupting as the fel.

[RobertMugabe]

I think the possibility of necromancers becoming a class is dead now. There were 2 expansions where they could've added them and it didn't happen. I highly doubt that we'll see another death themed expansion anytime soon.

Also yeah necromancers heavily struggle from just being more or less warlocks or death knights. This concept is cool, but even here they still feel similar, even though this concept has nothing to do with the necromancers we see in WoW. Though ofc this won't hold back blizz from adding new classes. Priests and Paladins are also very similar

[TheRevenantHero]

So you actually believe Blizzard would create another entire necromancer class simply because DKs use runic power instead of mana?

The difference between Warlocks and Metamorphosis and DKs and Necromancy is that the entire DK concept is based in necromancy. Metamorphosis was just one ability and concept that could be implemented or removed from Warlocks, and not dramatically alter the entire class. If you remove Necromancy from the DK class, you no longer have the DK class.

No. The entire DK concept is based around channeling power through their runeblades as well as enchanting those runeblades to create even more power. They're also a completely melee oriented class. Necromancers would be a ranged cloth option. It would literally be the same separation as paladin and priest.

[Teriz]

So basically, because you're using materials instead of class resource...that somehow separates them? I find it impossible to believe you don't see how asinine that is. If you're going to say that necromancers and death knights are the exact same because death knight can sort of replicate necromancer powers then tinker and engineer are the exact same thing since engineer can sort of replicate any abilities a tinker might have.

Uh no. It's the gameplay. A tinker plunking down infinite turrets is an entirely different type of gameplay and experience from a warrior leveling a non-essential item and constantly seeking materials for that non-essential item.

A DK summoning a skeleton would be exactly like a Necromancer summoning a skeleton.

No. The entire DK concept is based around channeling power through their runeblades as well as enchanting those runeblades to create even more power. They're also a completely melee oriented class. Necromancers would be a ranged cloth option. It would literally be the same separation as paladin and priest.

Again, its the same difference between an Enhancement and an Elemental shaman. That difference doesn't justify a new class.

[Triceron]

In lore, most warlocks don't really use fel. The ones that use fel are outliers and typically considered evil. Most warlocks use shadow or fire magic instead because it's not as corrupting as the fel.

Bullshit. Green fire questline explicitly shows that Warlocks are sourcing fel magic.

Any and all demon summoning involves Fel magic. *ALL* Warlocks use Fel magic in one type or another.

- - - Updated - - -

So you actually believe Blizzard would create another entire necromancer class simply because DKs use runic power instead of mana?

No, I believe the Necromancer archetype is separate from the Death Knight due to them being Spellcasters while DK's are not. DK's do not channel or cast any spells through ritual or incantation, they channel all their power through the runes of their Runeblade.

As I've said many times, the archtype difference is what makes a Class SKin Necromancer completely viable, whereas your argument implies even a Class SKin would be impossible because 'we already have a Necromancer'

And truth is, we do not. The DK is a Necromantic Antipaladin.

[TheRevenantHero]

Bullshit. Green fire questline explicitly shows that Warlocks are sourcing fel magic.

Any and all demon summoning involves Fel magic. *ALL* Warlocks use Fel magic in one type or another.

No, they really don't. Summoning demons is literally illegal amongst the Alliance. Most of the warlocks spells in game are fire or shadow based. Very few dare to use the fel in lore because of how insanely corrupting it is.

[Teriz]

Bullshit. Green fire questline explicitly shows that Warlocks are sourcing fel magic.

Any and all demon summoning involves Fel magic. *ALL* Warlocks use Fel magic in one type or another.

- - - Updated - - -



No, I believe the Necromancer archetype is separate from the Death Knight due to them being Spellcasters while DK's are not. DK's do not channel or cast any spells through ritual or incantation, they channel all their power through the runes of their Runeblade.

So since a DK is channeling an army of undead minions through a weapon instead of channeling an army of undead minions with their lips we need an entirely new class?

As I've said many times, the archtype difference is what makes a Class SKin Necromancer completely viable, whereas your argument implies even a Class SKin would be impossible because 'we already have a Necromancer'

And truth is, we do not. The DK is a Necromantic Antipaladin.

Semantics. The DK is a necromancer period. I have no issue with Warlocks getting a glyph that summons undead minions instead of demons though.

[TheRevenantHero]

Uh no. It's the gameplay. A tinker plunking down infinite turrets is an entirely different type of gameplay and experience from a warrior leveling a non-essential item and constantly seeking materials for that non-essential item.

A DK summoning a skeleton would be exactly like a Necromancer summoning a skeleton.



Again, its the same difference between an Enhancement and an Elemental shaman. That difference doesn't justify a new class.

No it's not. It's literally the same fucking thing. Just because engineering items don't have a mana cost doesn't mean they don't accomplish the exact same thing.

Your shaman example is hands down one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen you say. They is a MASSIVE difference between elemental and enhancement. Since necromancers directly tap into death magic instead of replicating it through runeblades, there is plenty of room for them to have unique spells unto themselves. I feel like you're just....throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks because you have absolutely no leg to stand on.

[Triceron]

Sure but some death knights are able to play in a gray area because Blizzard has made it so their source of power is their runeblade rather than directly tapping into death magic.

The Runeblade taps into Death Magic. That is not a grey zone if your problem is with evil-aligned class archetypes.

The Runeblade is just a tool that taps into a type of power instead of traditional spellcasting. The spellcasting archetype is what makes Necromancers differ from DKs, not differ in alignment of being 'less evil'. DK's are just as evil, if not moreso since they openly use torture and willingly inflict pain. The DK is themed around causing pain, torment and anguish, and use Necromancy as a tool to do so.

Necromancers are not themed around the use of Necromancy specifically to inflict pain and torture; and thus the Necromancy can actually be applied as support such as through a Healing spec. The Necromancer chooses to master aspects of Death Magic to obtain immortality. Their choice to create plagues and spread diseases is to spread the 'immortality of undeath' to other beings. Yet these methods are not exclusive to causing pain or torture; it can also come in the form of protection like Unholy Armor or Unholy Nova.

[TheRevenantHero]

So since a DK is channeling an army of undead minions through a weapon instead of channeling an army of undead minions with their lips we need an entirely new class?



Semantics. The DK is a necromancer period.

So because engineering uses materials and tinker uses mana, we need a tinker class? See how stupid that logic is?

- - - Updated - - -

The Runeblade taps into Death Magic. That is not a grey zone if your problem is with evil-aligned class archetypes.

The Runeblade is just a tool that taps into a type of power instead of traditional spellcasting. The spellcasting archetype is what makes them differ from Necromancers, not differ in alignment of being 'less evil'. They are just as evil, if not moreso (since they condone torture) than Necromancers. Necromancers are not themed around the use of Necromancy specifically to inflict pain and torture; and thus the theme can actually be applied as support such as through a Healing spec.

A healing spec would make absolutely NO sense for necromancer. Death magic can't heal the living.

[thunderdragon2]

no no more classes, they cant balance what they have

[Teriz]

So because engineering uses materials and tinker uses mana, we need a tinker class? See how stupid that logic is?

No, it's because the engineering profession isn't a class, and thus cannot (and does not) house the abilities of the Tinker hero.

[TheRevenantHero]

No, it's because the engineering profession isn't a class, and thus cannot (and does not) house the abilities of the Tinker hero.

It doesn't fucking matter. Engineering can accomplish everything your version of tinker can. It literally doesn't matter if it's a profession or not. As a matter of fact, that makes a push for tinker even more damning.

[Triceron]

A healing spec would make absolutely NO sense for necromancer. Death magic can't heal the living.

Unholy Nova is a Necromantic Priest spell from Necrolords covenants that heals your living allies (or is everyone considered dead in SHadowlands? Not quite sure here)

Primordial Wave is also Necromantically sourced healing.


Play the game. There are already examples of Necromancy that heals living.

And if you argue that there's no lore source for that; then there doesn't need to be for Necromancers to have a Healing spec either, considering a Healing Spec is game mechanics and would live comfortably alongside the Covenant abilities that use Necromantic Healing. There is zero lore regarding why a Paladin would choose to use Necromancy too, right? But you can do it right now in Shadowlands.

[Teriz]

It doesn't fucking matter. Engineering can accomplish everything your version of tinker can. It literally doesn't matter if it's a profession or not. As a matter of fact, that makes a push for tinker even more damning.

Are you serious? The engineering profession can not competitively DPS, heal, or tank with a class, nor accomplish any function of a class. So no, it cannot accomplish everything a Tinker class could.

[TheRevenantHero]

Unholy Nova is a Necromantic Priest spell from Necrolords covenants that heals your living allies (or is everyone considered dead in SHadowlands? Not quite sure here)

Primordial Wave is also Necromantically sourced healing.


Play the game. There are already examples of Necromancy that heals living.

And if you argue that there's no lore source for that; then there doesn't need to be for Necromancers to have a Healing spec either, considering a Healing Spec is game mechanics and would live comfortably alongside the Covenant abilities that use Necromantic Healing. There is zero lore regarding why a Paladin would choose to use Necromancy too, right? But you can do it right now in Shadowlands.

There's a good chance those spells, in canon, do not function outside of the Shadowlands. As you said, it might be that everything is considered "dead" there. We just don't know. Because outside of shadowlands, death magic is only used for...well...death.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you serious? The engineering profession can not competitively DPS, heal, or tank with a class, nor accomplish any function of a class. So no, it cannot accomplish everything a Tinker class could.

Being competitive isn't a requirement. That's literally just you moving the goalposts. If necromancer can't exist because you deem it too similar to death knights then tinkers can't exist because they're too similar to engineers.

[Simple Rick]

Are you serious? The engineering profession can not competitively DPS, heal, or tank with a class, nor accomplish any function of a class. So no, it cannot accomplish everything a Tinker class could.

The problem is do either of these classes fit into the game?

WoW doesn't really allow for high out of line of sight damage it breaks a lot of pve and pvp elements of the game. Turrets and even hordes of summoned npcs never really worked out well. Its why even BM needs los to activate most pet abilities.

I think people are to caught up into fantasy and not really focused enough on what mechanics they could bring that warrant a new class with multiple specs.

[Triceron]

So since a DK is channeling an army of undead minions through a weapon instead of channeling an army of undead minions with their lips we need an entirely new class?

Need? No.

Can have? Yes.


Same as Warlocks using Fel magic didn't impact us having Demon Hunters who used it in very similar ways, but also in very different ways.

I have no issue with Warlocks getting a glyph that summons undead minions instead of demons though.

Sure, but you had no issue with Warlocks having a 4th spec that was called 'Demon Hunter' too. I think Blizzard has been clear about where they stand with the archetypes.

[Teriz]

Being competitive isn't a requirement. That's literally just you moving the goalposts. If necromancer can't exist because you deem it too similar to death knights then tinkers can't exist because they're too similar to engineers.

Uh yes it is. You can't DPS with engineering items. You can't tank with them, and you can't heal with them. You can't complete quests with just engineering abilities and you definitely can't participate in dungeons or raids with just engineering abilities. The purpose of a profession is not to replace a class. You know this and are simply making a bad faith argument.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is do either of these classes fit into the game?

WoW doesn't really allow for high out of line of sight damage it breaks a lot of pve and pvp elements of the game. Turrets and even hordes of summoned npcs never really worked out well. Its why even BM needs los to activate most pet abilities.

I think people are to caught up into fantasy and not really focused enough on what mechanics they could bring that warrant a new class with multiple specs.

Demonology Warlocks can summon up to 9 imps that are constantly firing volleys of fireballs, and they summon those warlocks passively.

Need? No.

Can have? Yes.

Why would Blizzard waste resources to create a class that is doing the exactly same thing as the DK class outside of a tooltip description?