WoW Necromancer Hero Class

[TheRevenantHero]

Never said it was a positive, Just pointing out that because of it you can't really discount the possibility of any class ever becoming a thing, including Necromancer.

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Nobody has ever laid out a coherent, reasonable reason for why it can't be playable...why ANY class literally CANNOT be playable.

There's certain points that people can use to state why one class might be more likely than another, but nobody except Blizzard can state for a fact that any class cannot or will not ever become a thing.

Aside from the fact they are channeling death magic to defile corpses and directly being a necromancer being outlawed by the Kirin tor? You're right, there hasn't been any reasons in the lore for why it's not playable. /s

Necromancers are all villains. Willing and gleeful villains. At least with DKs they were involuntarily made into DKs.

[Molvonos]

*Snip*

Well, it was more than that. They not only shortlisted it down to those three, but then mixed them all together, which they also claimed. They took aspects of necromancer and runemaster and playdoh'd them together with what they had for death knight to make it work. Frankly, the fact that they took bits and pieces of the necromancer idea and put them into another class (DK), means there's a real good chance that, as much as people hate to read/hear it, they won't be adding necromancers as an option.

We're more likely gonna get the vaunted 'Tinker' people keep clamoring over, for whatever reason.

Personally, I'd prefer something more utility, like Bard or Enchanter from EQ, Mesmer from GW, etc, but with a WoW twist on it (clearly Runemaster wouldn't get added either, but that'd have been an ideal candidate).

[Ielenia]

Aside from the fact they are channeling death magic to defile corpses and directly being a necromancer being outlawed by the Kirin tor?

And why should the Kirin Tor matter? The Kirin Tor rules Dalaran, and Dalaran only, and on top of that Dalaran does not belong to any of the factions. So the Kirin Tor is meaningless for class existence.

On top of that, the Kirin Tor accepted death knights during Legion and way back in Wrath when they were introduced, i.e. before the Knights of the Ebon Blades proved themselves to be actual allies aside from their word of "yo we wanna help ya beat the Lich King".

You're right, there hasn't been any reasons in the lore for why it's not playable. /s

There really isn't.

Necromancers are all villains. Willing and gleeful villains.

So were warlocks. All villains. Willing and gleeful villains. Until Blizzard made them into a playable class and introduced a bunch of good warlock NPCs and lore as to why warlocks are tolerated within the factions.

[Teriz]

He was never a hero character. He showed up in Warcraft 3 in cinematic only. You never played AS Gul'dan.

Yes he was. Which is why he appears in HotS and is a character in Hearthstone. He is a major lore figure/hero character. There has never been a comparable Necromancer character except perhaps Kelthuzad. However, his concept was absorbed into the Mage and DK classes.

[Ielenia]

Frankly, the fact that they took bits and pieces of the necromancer idea and put them into another class (DK), means there's a real good chance that, as much as people hate to read/hear it, they won't be adding necromancers as an option.

Not really. Because you'd be then implying that new ideas cannot be conjured up for the necromancer class, which is demonstrably false, since we have two good necromancer concepts around here, although admittedly I'm biased toward one of them.

[Simple Rick]

Yes he was. Which is why he appears in HotS and is a character in Hearthstone. He is a major lore figure/hero character. There has never been a comparable Necromancer character except perhaps Kelthuzad. However, his concept was absorbed into the Mage and DK classes.

I think you are confusing him with medievh if you are talking about warcraft 2... I don't think guldan could ever raise the dead.

[Ielenia]

Yes he was.

At which part of Warcraft 3 did you play as Gul'dan?

Which is why he appears in HotS and is a character in Hearthstone.

Heroes of the Storm came out over ten years after WoW launched, i.e. after the warlock was made into a playable class, so it's not a valid example.

He is a major lore figure/hero character.

Except we're talking about WC3 here. And Gul'dan was never a hero character.

[TheRevenantHero]

And why should the Kirin Tor matter? The Kirin Tor rules Dalaran, and Dalaran only, and on top of that Dalaran does not belong to any of the factions. So the Kirin Tor is meaningless for class existence.

On top of that, the Kirin Tor accepted death knights during Legion and way back in Wrath when they were introduced, i.e. before the Knights of the Ebon Blades proved themselves to be actual allies aside from their word of "yo we wanna help ya beat the Lich King".


There really isn't.


So were warlocks. All villains. Willing and gleeful villains. Until Blizzard made them into a playable class and introduced a bunch of good warlock NPCs and lore as to why warlocks are tolerated within the factions.

Necromancer has had plenty of opportunities to introduce just ONE necromancer heroic character. they haven't in 16 years. That pretty much tells us they don't exist.

As for the Kirin Tor, if the most powerful council of magic users outlaws something then people are going to listen when it comes to what magic is and isn't outlawed.

[Ielenia]

Necromancer has had plenty of opportunities to introduce just ONE necromancer heroic character. they haven't in 16 years. That pretty much tells us they don't exist.

Mmmmmmmmmm.... No. No, it doesn't. At all. This is just "confirmation bias" fallacy.

As for the Kirin Tor, if the most powerful council of magic users outlaws something then people are going to listen when it comes to what magic is and isn't outlawed.

And both the Horde and the Alliance took a big, putrid, slimy dump on Dalaran and their rules when they allowed practitioners of necromancy into their ranks. And before that, the Horde did the same by allowing cannibals to join them.

[Triceron]

Well, it was more than that. They not only shortlisted it down to those three, but then mixed them all together, which they also claimed. They took aspects of necromancer and runemaster and playdoh'd them together with what they had for death knight to make it work. Frankly, the fact that they took bits and pieces of the necromancer idea and put them into another class (DK), means there's a real good chance that, as much as people hate to read/hear it, they won't be adding necromancers as an option.

We're more likely gonna get the vaunted 'Tinker' people keep clamoring over, for whatever reason.

Personally, I'd prefer something more utility, like Bard or Enchanter from EQ, Mesmer from GW, etc, but with a WoW twist on it (clearly Runemaster wouldn't get added either, but that'd have been an ideal candidate).

I agree, and I'm in the same boat. I think there's far more potential for other classes than the Necromancer on the basis that the game is open to explore plenty of other potential concepts. Dragonsworn and Dragon Isles are my current top expectation. Tinker had the strongest tie in post-BFA, but with this expansion being shown as Shadowlands and not furthering a Mechagon tie-in, I feel like Tinkers somewhat a big chance and it will be difficult to follow up SL with a new tech-themed expansion.

I'm simply answering what we already knew of Necromancers. It's not a complete unknown situation, and we can piece together how things went down through various interviews with the devs and post-mortem discussions. It's pretty clear that they used elements of the Necromancer to help theme the Death Knight - but guess what? They used elements of the Demon Hunter to theme the Warlock too. And we knew the Demon Hunter was a front-runner class for TBC through developer talks during Legion. Furthermore, we have the former Warlock designer openly admit that they tried to bridge the Demon Hunter entirely into the Warlock's design, and got overruled by other designers (which likely lead to the pivot back to Summoner style and the creation of the Demon Hunter class).

So honestly, we're at a point in WoW's life where we're far enough away from Wrath and the lore for different types of magic and what Necromancers have accomplished over the years, we have enough material to have a Necromancer class that is wholly separate from the DK's. Shadowlands right now is openly defining some of those aspects through the Necrolords Covenant; we have new Necromancy spells in the game that aren't just all attributed to the DK. And we know these mechanics are being bound to this expansion, and not carried over to players when we leave. This opens up some pretty huge potential to re-use some concepts for an entirely new class. Or it could just be left as-is. It's really up to Blizzard what they decide to do.

And if we're talking about good chances - Demon Hunter literally brought nothing new to the table and had to shoehorn its way into the gameplay; with only 2 specs at that. It shows that Blizzard does prioritize a Class Fantasy over providing specific uniqueness or diversity. And on the flip side, Shadowlands shows that they can also choose to forgoe a class and implement a Class-based system like Covenants instead. Overall, we're dealing with a very unpredictable development of WoW.

My personal stakes are in having Necromancers be one of many potential Class Skins that get added to the game in the future. Necromancers, Witchdoctors, Blademasters, Runemasters; all of these 'B-Tier' concepts could have new life breathed in them through becoming Class Skins in the future; much like how Allied Races were added to the game.

[TheRevenantHero]

Mmmmmmmmmm.... No. No, it doesn't. At all. This is just "confirmation bias" fallacy.


And both the Horde and the Alliance took a big, putrid, slimy dump on Dalaran and their rules when they allowed practitioners of necromancy into their ranks. And before that, the Horde did the same by allowing cannibals to join them.

I mean....you've made the same argument when talking about the tinker's claw pack. It hasn't been anywhere in WoW for 16 years so therefore it doesn't exist. The exact same can be applied to good aligned necromancers.

Death knights are "allowed". They are tolerated as living weapons of war but are not canonically welcome in major cities BECAUSE of their link to necromancy.

[Shadowferal]

Hmm..."witchdoctor"...troll priests.. I feel a compromise.

[Ielenia]

I mean....you've made the same argument when talking about the tinker's claw pack. It hasn't been anywhere in WoW for 16 years so therefore it doesn't exist. The exact same can be applied to good aligned necromancers.

It is not the same argument, though. What I said about the claw pack was to counter the claim that this "claw pack" is actually canon to the Warcraft universe.

Death knights are "allowed".

And why would death knights be, but not necromancers? Sounds like double-standards to me.

They are tolerated as living weapons of war but are not canonically welcome in major cities BECAUSE of their link to necromancy.

Source that they're not welcome in major cities today?

[Molvonos]

Not really. Because you'd be then implying that new ideas cannot be conjured up for the necromancer class, which is demonstrably false, since we have two good necromancer concepts around here, although admittedly I'm biased toward one of them.

See, that's a problem. You're biased. You're so hard up to make it work, going as far as writing your own headcanon and descriptions and all that, just to say it could work. As has someone else.

The issue is that Blizzard has a number of times to add a necromancer class, with Shadowlands and WotLK being the two biggest possible insertion points, and yet they didn't.

You can try and logic your way around it all, but fundamentally, the necromancer class that Blizzard considered, the one they likely felt fit the game the best, was mashed together into the amalgamation that is Death Knight, today. What you proposed, and what others might have proposed, could be shoehorned in as another class idea, sure, but there's a chance (good/bad/whatever) that it doesn't fit what Blizzard envisioned or what they want as a 'necromancer', and because of that, it won't be admitted as a full-blown class.

You're better off trying to push the Tinker narrative or make something brand spanking new and getting traction on that.

[Ielenia]

See, that's a problem. You're biased. You're so hard up to make it work, going as far as writing your own headcanon and descriptions and all that, just to say it could work. As has someone else.

Biased or not, the fact we could create those mock-ups of class concepts prove what I said, though. New ideas can be created for a new necromancer class.

The issue is that Blizzard has a number of times to add a necromancer class, with Shadowlands and WotLK being the two biggest possible insertion points, and yet they didn't.

Except... Shadowlands is not really a "possible insertion point", much less one of the "biggest", because the necromancer concept does not fit an expansion which its story is centered around the afterlife.

You can try and logic your way around it all, but fundamentally, the necromancer class that Blizzard considered, the one they likely felt fit the game the best, was mashed together into the amalgamation that is Death Knight, today.

First, it wasn't "mashed into" the death knight concept. Only the ideas surrounding the concept were used to flesh out the death knight class. Second, again, you're implying that Blizzard is unable to come up with new ideas for a necromancer class.

You're better off trying to push the Tinker narrative or make something brand spanking new and getting traction on that.

Why? I don't care about the tinker class. I care about the necromancer class.

[PsychoSe7eN]

Lol. Wow. So you are saying that you would quit wow entirely when they finally introduce Necromancers as a playable class?

[Aucald]

I think you are confusing him with medievh if you are talking about warcraft 2... I don't think guldan could ever raise the dead.

Gul'dan created the first generation of Death Knights including Teron Gorefiend, Gaz Soulripper, and Ragnok Bloodreaver. They were made from the souls of slain Shadow Council Orcs placed into the dead bodies of Human Knights, with the essence of sacrificed Orcish Necrolytes providing them additional power.

[Simple Rick]

Gul'dan created the first generation of Death Knights including Teron Gorefiend, Gaz Soulripper, and Ragnok Bloodreaver. They were made from the souls of slain Shadow Council Orcs placed into the dead bodies of Human Knights, with the essence of sacrificed Orcish Necrolytes providing them additional power.

True I did forget about that I always have it in my head it was gorefiend who did that rather then be the first one created. Though im not sure gul'dan could do something like that in combat it seemed rather focused on the ritual from what little I recall of it in lore.

[Katchii]

Aside from the fact they are channeling death magic to defile corpses and directly being a necromancer being outlawed by the Kirin tor? You're right, there hasn't been any reasons in the lore for why it's not playable. /s

The Kirin Tor doesn't control the world and Death Knights are a thing, who also practice necromancy.

This isn't the "gotcha" that you seem to think it is.

Necromancers are all villains. Willing and gleeful villains. At least with DKs they were involuntarily made into DKs.

DK's were all willing and gleeful villains prior to their introduction as a playable class in WotLK when lore was created to make it so. Why couldn't the same thing happen with Necromancers?

[Aggressive]

I absolutely love how everyone, literally, keeps pussy-footing back and forth about if DK's are necromancers or not. To me this is funny, cause in another post people are screaming how we didn't need necromancer as a class pick cause DK's covered that area with ghouls and what not. But now in this post, bastards are trying to say DK's ARE NOT necromancers but a more "Delightful" and "Tolerated" version of a necromancer.

Well, fuck all that. If you are able to call forth ghouls (Army of Dead) then you are a fucking necromancer. End of the story. Let's not paint this dull ass picture of "O. they are excepted among the population shit". DK's ARE FUCKING NECROMANCERS.........................PERIOD.