I meant Alliance on Horde stuff, like Jaina on her command responsibility in Purge of Dalaran when Vereesa and her High Elves were outright harassing Sunreaver civilians and even feeding them to sharks, Genn attacking the Horde in a time of peace with the Horde, and Vereesa attempting to assassinate Rommath while they were in Suramar, also a time of peace with the Horde
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I mean the Horde keeps on losing their warchief, turned against their own Horde brethren from within, and being extremely defanged. I'm against a Garrosh/Sylvanas genocidal Horde, I'm also against an Alliance bootlicking Horde
The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!
I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.
If you want to be pedantic then horde broke the peace during Ashran conflict and never signed anything after that so Alliance simply chose not to move against the Horde at large, but they were not at peace.
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Alliance was not just “defanged” but also declawed and their gums were cut off to prevent anything growing from them again. So you can get over being non-genocidal.
Also “turning on itself” is YOUR problem. Stop being psychotic , unstable monsters who suffer from bipolar disorder and you will have stable and long lasting unity.
And losing warchiefs is nothing compared to being a constant loser faction that gets beaten in a most humiliating and abusive ways possible.
What punishment. He was not fines. Not locked up. Not offered as an apology for peace talks. Sorry a stern talking to in pre ww2 conditions is not a punishment. True punishment would have been something extremely severe for genn that he'd fear for his life if he tried it once more.
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So we forget that Genn started the war?
The Alliance can "forgive" the Horde, but will never forget the atrocities committed by the ones who perpetrated them. Even a majority of the horde did not take kindly to Sylvanus destroying Teldrassil like she did. As for those saying the only good undead is a dead undead...so you condone genocide? Are you Garroshian, or Windrunnerian? It was a small minority of players that did those things. You cannot blame the entirety of a race for what a few do.
when all else fails, read the STICKIES.
If you consider the momentary Council "Alliance Bootlickers" for trying to have a decent diplomatic relationship with the Alliance and making up for the crimes of the Horde then I have big trouble believing you.
They obviously are the middle ground, but your hatred for anyone that tries to keep the peace and/or the specific actors in play blinds you to this.
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Or we just do not fall for Sylvanas' propaganda. She started the war because she wanted the war. If Genn had not stopped her in Stormheim she would have picked another event to convince Saurfang. Maybe Taurajo.
Sylvanas: "And we need to destroy the Alliance because they burned Taurajo!!"
Saurfang: "But, Warchief, that was only three huts and like 10 years ago. We did much worse before and after!"
Sylvanas *in Banshee*: "But Taurajo!"
On a side note. One would think that with the benefit of hindsight that we now enjoy and knowing that Sylvanas is literally trying to end reality Genn's attack and him preventing her from getting infinite Val'kyr would be accepted as a positive act, but the denial is strong with the Horde.
Last edited by Raisei; 2021-03-04 at 08:15 AM.
In a world with a story that mattered, yes they could. In WoW, no.
They're always going to want some part of that Red vs Blue aesthetic to remain even if most players just don't care anymore. They'll come up with stupid contrivances to make the conflict continue long beyond when it should have been over.
Everyone keeps saying that Anduin should have punished Genn and . . . I mean I agree Genn started the fight there but what authority does Anduin exactly have here? However much some people like to say it, there is no Blue Warchief in the Alliance. No Blood Oath. Anduin could at most withdraw those Alliance troops that the faction leaders had assigned from Alliance command to Genn. That's it. He is a sovereign ruler he is allied with and he has absolutely no secular authority over him and only has military authority on him ON the field of battle. Anduin cannot expel someone from the Alliance nor can he punish Alliance leaders. He did not even have authority over Genn and Tyrande leaving in the middle of a war; any Alliance leader is free to withdraw assigned troops from the common Army to serve their individual nations as has been seen time and again.
The only reason Garrosh was punished was that he was captured and that both the Horde and Alliance agreed on a third party court. Even if somehow the Alliance (not Anduin, the Alliance as a whole) would agree to give up Genn for trial, who would try him?
Last edited by Araevin; 2021-03-04 at 10:11 AM.
Shame that the Class Orders started their work BEFORE the Stormheim story, so the factions were at each other's throat before. Maybe because Sylvanas decided to leave the Alliance to die on the Broken Shore without so much as a warning that she was withdrawing or sending one of her Val'kyr to save Varian instead of watching him die. Nah, that is impossible.
And no this has nothing to do with the fact that it was a planned trap by Dreadlord Shaw. Sylvanas could have done something to preserve the peace between the factions and chose not to. That is what counts.
Odyn seems to be rather forgiving... until you are a Shadow Priest with Xal'atath and ask him about Loken. Then he instantly vaporizes you and kicks you out of the Halls. Signaling that when he and his "family" are considered he is much less inclined to forgive. So yes, it was extremly foolish to attack Eyir when we needed Odyn's help, no matter how much you would like Sylvanas to be right. Making a deal with Helya alone would have made Odyn furious, since he hated her.
Please. The moment we find out that Stormheim is connected to the Val'kyr even a toddler would have figured out what Sylvanas wants there.
Of course the initial attack had a different motivation. It is cute that you think that anyone needs an additional reason to just kill Sylvanas where she stands when she is a genocidal monster and war criminal several times over. Few people in this world would have less right to speak of an "unprovoked attack" then her. But sure keep pushing that narrative where she is an innocent victim of the cruel Genn Greymane!
After the Wrathgate and after seeing what disgusting things the Horde were doing in the Undercity, that is correct. Your missconception is that you assign the blame for that war to the Alliance as well, which could not be further from the truth.
Oh dear, Anduin did not execute Genn for trying to kill the monster that murdered his son and blighted his kingdom! The audacity!
Tell me again, how was Sylvanas punished for not following Garrosh's orders in Gilneas? Oh riiight, she wasn't. But I guess that is not strange, Garrosh was always the forgiving type, much more so then that warmonger Anduin. It is strange how these things always only register with you when it is Alliance characters that could be punished, while the Horde is never wrong in anything it does, right?
We forgot how Sylvanas attacked his Kingdom first and then we also forgot how horde started the war on Ashran.
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Well, actually majority of the horde supported sylvanas to the very end of her reign, only stopping when she openly told that she dosent give a shit about them so they ARE complicit.
1- what happened to Teldrassil is MORALLY GREY (yeah bullsh8t stupid, but that's blizz)
2- actually yes it is, alliance hold record of actual successful genocide, something horde never did, across many continents
so while horde did war crimes, they still are child infants in comparison to alliance, at least until they successfully wipe out entire races from their homelands and take over it and live for at least 10k years, like what alliance literally did to Trolls everywhere
which horde race did that? ironic since high elves still insist on stay in alliance (worst stockholm syndrome ever) all high elves crimes against trolls, is still alliance work, at least until high elves realize how horribly abused they are by their 'allies'
The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
Thrall
http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power
Are you really that dense? Blood elves literally still live in those "stolen" lands as well as the undead "humans". Just because they have another name now doesn't mean that they lost all their history involving past events.
You can argue that blood/high elves are even worse than the rest in that regard because they did it twice. Once as part of the Kaldorei empire and then again in their war against Amani. (You know that said land where the main capital of said blood elves is located)
The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!
I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.
They already have, multiple times. The newest generation probably doesn't even know why the conflict exists. The Alliance and Horde are still at odds because the story has to serve the video game, not the other way around.
Practically and logically speaking, the 4th War should have never happened. There's no way the Horde would have let another Garrosh run them into the ground again. Nobody should have been willing to follow Sylvanas except her most fanatical followers. But, as mentioned, video game logic runs the story.
What war did Genn start? Blackhand started the first war, and Gilneas didn't take part. Doomhammer started the second. Arthas, Daelin, or Kel'thuzad the third, depending on how you define the third war, and only the Gilnean renegades took part, so associating that war with Genn seems silly. The Horde-Alliance War was started by Varian. The war with Gilneas was started by Garrosh. The Fourth War was started by Sylvanas.
Genn was part of the initiation of the attack on the Horde in Stormheim, which was after the treaty following the Horde-Alliance war. However, that treaty had already been violated in Ashran when the factions started attacking one another again and gathering mounds of bones from the other faction's dead as trophies to display in their garrisons. There was no other treaty after that; the Horde and Alliance only worked together in one instance after that point, which was the Battle of the Broken Shore, in which the factions claimed territory in different parts of the island and avoided contact with one another (a far cry from periods of peace where they would literally intermingle their bases).
I'm not condoning Genn's actions. But let's not pretend they came clear out of left field when the factions had already been in open conflict following their last peace treaty, the Order Halls were founded because the factions weren't cooperating properly, and Sylvanas left the Alliance in a state of feeling betrayed because she couldn't be bothered to send a single missive explaining the situation that happened at the Broken Shore.
You are aware that the Alliance is younger than the Horde, having been formed in WC2 as a response to the Horde's continued expansion northward. It hasn't been around ten thousand years.
Now, if you're considering the history of the Alliance races, then the Horde races that have committed such atrocities include the blood elves' genocide of the trolls during your aforementioned wars, the nightborne's destruction of the troll empire at the same time the night elves performed such acts, the orcs' destruction of the draenei, the trolls' destruction of the aqir, the trolls' attack on the Tol'vir, the trolls' attack on the pandaren, etc. Most of the races are not innocent. Were the troll wars with the humans and elves atrocious for the trolls? Yes. I'm not saying that humans and elves are innocent. But that doesn't make the trolls themselves or the orcs suddenly innocent of their atrocities either.