WoW Necromancer Hero Class

[kenn9530]

Being a saviour of the world doesn't imply you can't save it while being evil. Look at Demon Hunters and Death Knights. Necromancers and Warlocks and Shadow Priests are in the same boat - they use Dark Magic and would equally be considered 'Champions' amongst every other class in the game.

Look at any Forsaken character. The road towards saving the world is paved in half-eaten corpses. Again, your convictions do not reflect reality, you're publicly making excuses for yourself.

Blizzard considered making Necromancers playable, and to be very frank, they've opened up use of Necromancy to anyone who chooses Necrolords covenant now. You're excusing anyone for using Necromancy except the Necromancer itself, which is a complete double standard.

Being evil does imply that you cant save the world because every single necromancer in existance wants to destroy, deathknights are a class because of WotlK popularity and in the story there are thousands of them so it would be pointless not to make use of a powerful soldier. Necromancy is a pure evil magic only, deathknights barely use it as it is so they barely get a pass, but a necromancer would be all in and there is no ignoring that.

Forsaken chars dont need to eat corpses at all, if you use the racial thats on you as everything is down to choice.

All the necrolords abilities dont have anything to do with necromancy at all as its all the just shadow damage abilities and nothing necromancer about them, only one to remotely have a connection is the shield, but again were in a realm of death where death is not the end anyway.

[Triceron]

Being evil does imply that you cant save the world because every single necromancer in existance wants to destroy, deathknights are a class because of WotlK popularity and in the story there are thousands of them so it would be pointless not to make use of a powerful soldier.

Forsaken chars dont need to eat corpses at all, if you use the racial thats on you as everything is down to choice.

All the necrolords abilities dont have anything to do with necromancy at all as its all the just shadow damage abilities and nothing necromancer about them, only one to remotely have a connection is the shield, but again were in a realm of death where death is not the end anyway.

So as a player, it's your choice to defile corpses or not. Otherwise there are plenty of alternatives available to you, like alchemy to spread plagues and oozes, or Unholy/Blood magic to heal or protect. Necrolytes in Warcraft 1 were support units that protected with Unholy Armor, for example. Death Knights carried that over in WC2, and had support abilities, or general damage abilities like Whirlwind.

Also, not all Necromancers aren't geared towards destroying the world, some simply wish to pursue immortality for their own purposes.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Helcular

Helcular is a Forsaken necromancer located at the Ruins of Southshore.

During the Legion Invasions of Hillsbrad, Helcular led the forces of Azeroth in defending it, apparently having learned more powerful shadow magic as he used a variety of spells against demons in Tarren Mill. He was also mounted on a skeletal steed. He claimed that by defending Hillsbrad, the forces have successfully defended all of Lordaeron from invasion, but that the fight with the Legion is far from over.



Again, not *every single Necromancer* is evil. Helcular in Legion is now an example of one that fought for the sake of good.

But I'm guessing he doesn't fit your narrative, so you're gonna say 'WELL ThAtz oNlY oNE NeKraohMWanser NoT AlL NEKSzoRs!' to which I'd say just having one Necromancer that did good deeds is all you need to show that they aren't all evil, like you're claiming them to be.

I call bullshit where I see it.

[Ielenia]

Being evil does imply that you cant save the world because every single necromancer in existance wants to destroy,

And so did every death knight in existence want to destroy the world, before Wrath.
And so did every warlock in existence want to destroy the world, before WoW.
And so did every shadow priest in existence want to destroy the world, before WoW.

You keep making statements against the necromancer that would negate some of the classes we currently have. It's called 'double standards'.

Forsaken chars dont need to eat corpses at all, if you use the racial thats on you as everything is down to choice.

But they can and do eat corpses. If the player chooses to never use that racial ability is irrelevant because the specifics of our player character are irrelevant in the lore: if it's tauren, human, goblin or forsaken... if it's male or female... if it's hetero or homosexual... none of that matters and none of that is specified in the lore.

What matters is that if this is a racial of the forsaken, it means the forsaken not only can do that, but it means they do consume the bodies of the fallen. Racials are, after all, a representation of the race. And if they have a racial that allows them to consume corpses, then that means they do consume corpses, and not that they "can do it, but choose not ot do it".

[Teriz]

No we didn't.

You knew exactly that Monks would use Chi and Energy?

You knew they'd have Fists of Fury, call on the celestials as part of their kit, wear leather, have rolls and flying kicks?

I call bullshit.

We knew about Keg smash, SEF, Drunken Brawler and Breath of Fire. We also had basic weaponry such as the staff. So from that we knew that a Brewmaster class would be a class using drunken martial arts skills and brews to empower themselves. We also had the Brewmaster class from WoW RPG that reinforced those initial concepts.

We had some ideas, yes, but in NONE of the expansion classes did we know the entire tool kit, understand how their abilities would synergize or what their resource mechanic would be.

I never said we did. I said we had an IDEA of how those potential classes would operate from those abilities and concepts.

We have nothing for the Necromancer.

- - - Updated - - -

You have yet to prove that the previous classes added needed a lore character to exist. I.e. could never be added into the game without a lore character.

You can't, because this is nothing but your own arbitrary rule. Blizzard has never said that we "need a lore character." Hell, the simple fact that necromancer and runemaster were two of the three frontrunners for the class to be added in the Wrath expansion proves that a "lore character" is not needed. Especially since we have no runemaster character at all in the whole lore, as far as I know.

Truth be told, i never really bought that story, considering that the DK already had Necromancer abilities and already had Runic blades in WC3. Think about it; Why would a Necromancer and Runemaster be front runners against a DK when the DK contains both concepts already?

More than likely, the DK was always going to be the class, and the Necromancer concept was always going to be folded into it.

The lack of a necromancer class in Shadowlands backs that up.

[kenn9530]

snip

Necromancers only do what benefits them, they have full freewill to make choices so they dont fight for the sake of good they just do what they want. Doing one good thing is irrelevant to all the bad things you made the choice in doing.

And so did every death knight in existence want to destroy the world, before Wrath.
And so did every warlock in existence want to destroy the world, before WoW.
And so did every shadow priest in existence want to destroy the world, before WoW.

You keep making statements against the necromancer that would negate some of the classes we currently have. It's called 'double standards'.


But they can and do eat corpses. If the player chooses to never use that racial ability is irrelevant because the specifics of our player character are irrelevant in the lore: if it's tauren, human, goblin or forsaken... if it's male or female... if it's hetero or homosexual... none of that matters and none of that is specified in the lore.

What matters is that if this is a racial of the forsaken, it means the forsaken not only can do that, but it means they do consume the bodies of the fallen. Racials are, after all, a representation of the race. And if they have a racial that allows them to consume corpses, then that means they do consume corpses, and not that they "can do it, but choose not ot do it".

Deathknights didnt have a choice they had to do anything the lich king wanted so it was not thier personal choice, you can include every single class in WoW wanting to destroy at some point, its not specific to a class, but necromancer magic itself destroys the user and is 100% evil.

The player is the one thats the leader and top of thier class, its irrelevant the choices of others of the same race its all up to what the player chooses to do with thier skills as they are the ones who everyone would look up to as an example of the best, everything is about choice.

Necromancers have a choice to do that magic and choose to practice the most evil ways possible.

If you really beleive using corpses/souls to animate those corpses, experimenting and patching together minions, spreading plagues is good, then you have some warped reality just to try and justify implementing a class thats the most hated in the WoW universe.

[Triceron]

Necromancers only do what benefits them, they have full freewill to make choices so they dont fight for the sake of good they just do what they want. Doing one good thing is irrelevant to all the bad things you made the choice in doing.

Which can be applied to any class.

Rogues do what benefits them, and they have the free will to make choices so they don't fight for the sake of good too. They just do what they want.

But your latter statement is absolutely wrong. Doing good deeds is not irrelevant, it's namely the reason any class is made playable. Death Knights are playable because of the one good deed they did; helping Tirion fight back against Arthas. DK's have the free will to continue doing evil. Again, Legion showed this with you participating in the creation of the new Four Horsemen, killing the Alliance/Horde's allies in order to take the corpses of dead heroes.

Whether or not the good deeds make up for the bad is all subjective. And it's clear here, you have a subjective bias against Necromancers, even though I've pointed out an example of a Necromancer who has fought to defend Azeroth from the Burning Legion. You won't allow it because of your personal conviction that Necromancers can only do evil, or be perceived that way.

This is your choice to see them as evil, not that the lore itself has painted *EVERY* Necromancer as evil. We have Necromancers that fight for good, and Helcular is just one example.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gunther_Arcanus

Here's another. A Necromancer quest giver who works under the Forsaken.

During life, he was a mage and necromancer of the Kirin Tor in Dalaran, and a friend of Bethor Iceshard and Thule Ravenclaw. He was raised as an undead slave to the Scourge, but broke free of the Lich King's control on his own. Thinking he was the only undead with free will, he distrusted all others, but agents of the Forsaken proved to him that they were enemies of the Scourge too. Gunther then joined the Forsaken, reunited with his old friend Bethor.

[Katchii]

We have nothing for the Necromancer.

Stop lying dude.

Your mental gymnastics were one thing, but this is just sad.

We have several examples within WoW to pull ideas from. I'm sure you've heard of Scholomance and Maldraxxus? And with how much I know you know about this game, based on your Tinker threads/ posts, there's no way you're being anything except disingenuous and dishonest.

But I'll post a link for you anyway.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Necromancer

[kenn9530]

Which can be applied to any class.

Rogues do what benefits them, and they have the free will to make choices so they don't fight for the sake of good too. They just do what they want.

But your latter statement is absolutely wrong. Doing good deeds is not irrelevant, it's namely the reason any class is made playable. Death Knights are playable because of the one good deed they did; helping Tirion fight back against Arthas. DK's have the free will to continue doing evil. Again, Legion showed this with you participating in the creation of the new Four Horsemen, killing the Alliance/Horde's allies in order to take the corpses of dead heroes.

Whether or not the good deeds make up for the bad is all subjective. And it's clear here, you have a subjective bias against Necromancers, even though I've pointed out an example of a Necromancer who has fought to defend Azeroth from the Burning Legion.

It may not even be a good deed to the necromancer, how do you know he didnt just want to kill demons and use them to gain more power, you dont have any idea on the motivations for the act so 1 deed that may seem good could mean 1000 deaths later, character is whats important not some random deed you think is good. He lives in the area and probably doesnt want his home destroyed so its hardly an example of a good necromancer because there is nothing to support it.

Deathknights had no freewill so anything they done before was not thier fault so the class is not to blame, necromancers have freewill so everything they do can be judged.

[Wangming]

Necromancers only do what benefits them, they have full freewill to make choices so they dont fight for the sake of good they just do what they want. Doing one good thing is irrelevant to all the bad things you made the choice in doing.



Deathknights didnt have a choice they had to do anything the lich king wanted so it was not thier personal choice, you can include every single class in WoW wanting to destroy at some point, its not specific to a class, but necromancer magic itself destroys the user and is 100% evil.

The player is the one thats the leader and top of thier class, its irrelevant the choices of others of the same race its all up to what the player chooses to do with thier skills as they are the ones who everyone would look up to as an example of the best, everything is about choice.

Necromancers have a choice to do that magic and choose to practice the most evil ways possible.

Out of all this what does not apply to warlocks as well?

[Ielenia]

Truth be told, i never really bought that story, considering that the DK already had Necromancer abilities and already had Runic blades in WC3. Think about it; Why would a Necromancer and Runemaster be front runners against a DK when the DK contains both concepts already?

So you're saying you're cherry-picking Blizzard statements, now?

More than likely, the DK was always going to be the class, and the Necromancer concept was always going to be folded into it.

The lack of a necromancer class in Shadowlands backs that up.

It doesn't. What you're doing here is engaging in the "confirmation bias" fallacy.

[kenn9530]

Out of all this what does not apply to warlocks as well?

Not all warlocks do evil things, any class can do evil things, but every single necromancer in existance does evil things

[Katchii]

Not all warlocks do evil things, any class can do evil things, but every single necromancer in existance does evil things

And why does that mean they'll only ever be and do evil? The same was said about Death Knights before they were made playable, why would them having a the same treatment as Death Knights be an impossibility for Necromancers?

[Teriz]

Stop lying dude.

Your mental gymnastics were one thing, but this is just sad.

We have several examples within WoW to pull ideas from. I'm sure you've heard of Scholomance? And with how much I know you know about this game, based on your Tinker threads/ posts, there's no way you're being anything except disingenuous and dishonest.

Scholomance is scourge.The relevant abilities from there went to the Death Knight class.

But I'll post a link for you anyway.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Necromancer

From your link;

Necromancers are practitioners of necromancy (also called the dark arts[2][3] or the black arts)[4] the study and use of magic to raise and control the dead.[5] Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed.[6] Necromancers are the enemies of life itself, and all hands are raised against them.

1. Raising and Controlling the dead: Death Knights.
2. Conjuring festering diseases: Death Knights.
3. Harness shadows into bolts of energy: Death Knights
4. Chill the living with the power of death. Death Knights
5. Reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures: Death Knights

Looks like we have our Necromancer class.

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So you're saying you're cherry-picking Blizzard statements, now?

I'm saying it's rather dubious to believe that the front runners were Necromncers, Runemasters, and Death Knights when the DK class was already a combination of the other two.

[Ielenia]

Deathknights didnt have a choice they had to do anything the lich king wanted so it was not thier personal choice,

It was their full, 140% personal choice everything they did after they broke free of the Lich King's control.

you can include every single class in WoW wanting to destroy at some point, its not specific to a class, but necromancer magic itself destroys the user and is 100% evil.

Description of fel magic: "Fel magic is a destructive form of magic often used by demons and the members of the Burning Legion. It is demonic, entropic, chaotic and extremely volatile. Its use by the wielder, or its effects on the victim, frequently results in an alteration of the individual, colloquially called corruption. All of the Burning Legion carry the taint of fel magic within their very blood, allowing them to spread greater evil."

Black on white: fel magic destroys and corrupts the user and is 100% evil. By your logic, warlocks should not be allowed to exist.

The player is the one thats the leader and top of thier class,

No, he's not. The player is irrelevant. Lore-wise, our player is not the "leader of their class". It it shown at the end of BfA when you use your artifact weapon to drain Sargeras' sword, what you see of the other order halls are not player characters, but NPCs. In short: what our player characters do

Necromancers have a choice to do that magic and choose to practice the most evil ways possible.

And the death knights have a choice to do that magic and choose to practice the most evil ways possible. Even after being freed from the Lich King. And the warlocks, before being added as a class, had a choice to do that magic and chose to practice it in the most evil ways possible.

It's downright amazing how you insist in this argument after it's been thoroughly debunked.

If you really beleive using corpses/souls to animate those corpses, experimenting and patching together minions, spreading plagues is good,

This is a strawman, because I never said that. Ever.

then you have some warped reality

Says the guy constantly employing double-standards and blatantly contradicting established lore

just to try and justify implementing a class thats the most hated in the WoW universe.

Oh, you mean warlocks? Wait, no, you mean death knights! Oh, no, no no, you mean demon hunters!!

[Triceron]

It may not even be a good deed to the necromancer, how do you know he didnt just want to kill demons and use them to gain more power,

It's the same reason Warlocks fight for good. To gain power.

How do you know Warlocks aren't doing this exact same?

From the WoW class page

In the face of demonic power, most heroes see death. Warlocks see only opportunity. Dominance is their aim, and they have found a path to it in the dark arts. These voracious spellcasters summon demonic minions to fight beside them. At first, they command only the service of imps, but as a warlock’s knowledge grows, seductive succubi, loyal voidwalkers, and horrific felhunters join the dark sorcerer’s ranks to wreak havoc on anyone who stands in their master’s way.

Could you point me out the part where it says they want to save the world? I have a hard time finding it. Probably because it doesn't exist.

[Wangming]

Not all warlocks do evil things, any class can do evil things, but every single necromancer in existance does evil things

Yet they made a conscious choice to use fel magic. The magic of fucking demons. The only not evil thing you can do with fel magic is horribly murder somebody more evil than you.

[kenn9530]

snip

What evil things have they done after breaking free, they help the factions constantly.

Fel magic is not evil it just weakens and harms the user.

The player is relevant because your the one trying to get a necromancer as a player class, so what they player is in the game is relevant, the player is the most important part of the story.

Your the one wanting a necromancer class that would include evil magics that you probably dont even agree and suitable to use.

Its just fact necromancer is the most hated in WoW.

Yet they made a conscious choice to use fel magic. The magic of fucking demons. The only not evil thing you can do with fel magic is horribly murder somebody more evil than you.

Using fel magic is not evil, using demons is not evil, its what you use them for that matters.

It's the same reason Warlocks fight for good. To gain power.

How do you know Warlocks aren't doing this exact same?

From the WoW class page

In the face of demonic power, most heroes see death. Warlocks see only opportunity. Dominance is their aim, and they have found a path to it in the dark arts. These voracious spellcasters summon demonic minions to fight beside them. At first, they command only the service of imps, but as a warlock’s knowledge grows, seductive succubi, loyal voidwalkers, and horrific felhunters join the dark sorcerer’s ranks to wreak havoc on anyone who stands in their master’s way.

Could you point me out the part where it says they want to save the world? I have a hard time finding it. Probably because it doesn't exist.

the player saves the world on a regular basis so every class in WoW wants to save the world, dark arts not not evil its what they are used for that matters.

[Ielenia]

Out of all this what does not apply to warlocks as well?

Everything applies. But he got some heavy double-standards against necromancers, for some reason.

[Wangming]

Using fel magic is not evil, using demons is not evil, its what you use them for that matters.

Dunno what you are smoking, but you are entertainingly retarded. I dunno who allowed you access to the internet, but hats off to him/her. It made my day.

[Ielenia]

What evil things have they done after breaking free, they help the factions constantly.

Let's see:
• Raising Trollbane.
• Raising Nazgrim.
• Raising a ton of dead Alliance and Horde soldiers during the Legion invasion.
• Attacking the paladin Order Hall during the Legion invasion, because they wanted to raise Tirion as a death knight.

All of that just during the Legion expansion, which is the freshest I have in my mind.

Fel magic is not evil it just weakens and harms the user.

Fel magic corrupts the mind of the user too, transforming them into someone else, and, eventually, turning into a demon, themselves.

The player is relevant because your the one trying to get a necromancer as a player class, so what they player is in the game is relevant, the player is the most important part of the story.

The player has zero relevance in how a class fits in the lore or not.

Your the one wanting a necromancer class that would include evil magics that you probably dont even agree and suitable to use.

And yet we have warlocks. And shadow priests. And death knights. And rogues. All "evil stuff". Do you agree with eviscerating people?

Its just fact necromancer is the most hated in WoW.

And so were warlocks. And demon hunters. And death knights. But they're still playable classes, today.