what the fuck did I just ran into?

[Witchblade77]

Oh but I honestly do get you, so no need to be sorry for venting. I was merely trying to help you see the bigger picture of this all and that things "could be worse" in the long run, if you get me. However I completely understand your frustration at what happened and at how people defend it.

oh I got the bigger picture all right (hmm that is sounding like I'm mad at you, but I'm not, I'm just not sure how else to phrase it - I do appreciate your posts)

yes things can always be worse (and among other things, I'm aware how lucky I am to even have an opportunity to have this roof over my head, internet acess and both time and means to play video games as my leisure activity). yes, I now know what's going on with this particular dungeon and to avoid it in a future. I also had it confirmed to me yet again, that assholes will do a lot of mental gymnastics to both justify their jerk behavior AND try to shift any and all blame to the person they are being a jerk to. its not at all new to me, unfortunately, but I guess i haven't dealt with it recently (thank you quarantine, I guess), so my mental calluses are not as thick, so to speak. but they are starting to thicken again, so it wont' get to me that way next times wow jerks will be jerks.

I did also learn and interesting and yet ultimately useless to me fact. I had no idea you could finish regular callings via dungeons. I've always just did combo of quests and treasures. I only started doing the dungeons for that "dungeon or group wq" after how long one of those quests took me to finish first time around and I only ever queue up for specific dungeons on the quest list. I didn't do much of deliberate legendary farming either, and I certainly didn't look up what's best in slot for any class outside of druid (with my druid, after looking at my options, I decided to wait on crafting a legendary until I either level my own crafter alts, or crafting components are not as highly priced - I finished the quest with cheapest components I could find and dropped them off in my vanity guild bank for alts should they get to that point). so I had no idea that this type of farming was a thing. now I know.

[Nerph-]

oh I got the bigger picture all right (hmm that is sounding like I'm mad at you, but I'm not, I'm just not sure how else to phrase it - I do appreciate your posts)

yes things can always be worse (and among other things, I'm aware how lucky I am to even have an opportunity to have this roof over my head, internet acess and both time and means to play video games as my leisure activity). yes, I now know what's going on with this particular dungeon and to avoid it in a future. I also had it confirmed to me yet again, that assholes will do a lot of mental gymnastics to both justify their jerk behavior AND try to shift any and all blame to the person they are being a jerk to. its not at all new to me, unfortunately, but I guess i haven't dealt with it recently (thank you quarantine, I guess), so my mental calluses are not as thick, so to speak. but they are starting to thicken again, so it wont' get to me that way next times wow jerks will be jerks.

I did also learn and interesting and yet ultimately useless to me fact. I had no idea you could finish regular callings via dungeons. I've always just did combo of quests and treasures. I only started doing the dungeons for that "dungeon or group wq" after how long one of those quests took me to finish first time around and I only ever queue up for specific dungeons on the quest list. I didn't do much of deliberate legendary farming either, and I certainly didn't look up what's best in slot for any class outside of druid (with my druid, after looking at my options, I decided to wait on crafting a legendary until I either level my own crafter alts, or crafting components are not as highly priced - I finished the quest with cheapest components I could find and dropped them off in my vanity guild bank for alts should they get to that point). so I had no idea that this type of farming was a thing. now I know.

It's alright Like I said your frustration is completely understandable and I'm in no way trying to teach you "life lessons" or however one could describe it. I was just hoping to help calm you down a bit by trying to compare it to other things in life, but it looks like I don't need to as you already know.

Luckily this expansion so far (and I'm on a retail break at the moment) I've not had to deal with much of this asshole-ary in game. However these forums never cease to amaze me lol.

[Bloodyleech]

mouse turn + W. still not fast enough. ah well. and I see about phasing, guess I'll try finding a group next time. waiting around for people to show up in Maw would be a lot more doable, if eye of the jailer didn't tick whether you fight anything or not. at this point i'm just skipping Perdition hall. it means i get my Torghast upgrades slower (which is one of the two reasons i still go into Maw) but I'm just going to have to live with that because I'd rather keep my maw visits to absolute bare minimum.

as for healing I don't think i'm reacting THAT slowly, but even in normal I see tank and melee dps occasionally drop pretty drastically in seconds. I mouseover heal and I still end up frantically spamming at points and freaking out between cooldowns, because of the size of the pulls people insist on. (so far tanks pulling 3-4 trash groups at a time has been the only way I've seen these things ran) like... literally boss fights are when i relax and even throw occasional dots, becasue of how stressful trash pulls can get. on NORMAL.

Can understand the point on maw, yeah. I don't know why exactly they made it work like this - makes no sense to me, at all. Maybe because they dont want people to suddenly spawn somewhere?

When people drop hard, it's not your fault if they die. You can't heal missing IQ, but they will still say it's your fault - don't let it go through you, tho, you know it better if they stand in shit or not. Tanks pulling like these are still living in BFA, where tanks could easily do dungeons without a healer or any support. This behavior happens less on higher difficulties tho! I had way better encounter on mythic than normal or hero (although hero usually is fine too - assholes can appear everywhere).

[Kallisto]

This thread just cements for me everything that is wrong with the current entitled millennial generation of wow players, who feel the need to defend the obvious Dick move by the tank/ rogue.

Thinking this attitude is a Millenial thing. Just look back at the 80s where heroes were all about Greed and sucking off the teet of Reagan who basically epitomised selfishness

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, putting the most interesting drops on last boss instead of first/second/third is something like 1 hour of coding and would completely solve this issue like forever.

Says someone who has never coded before. Nothing is as simple as taking an hour and then "It's fixed." especially not with something as old as WoW. A "simple" line of code change can and has had some severe unforeseen consequences in the development of software.

[chiddie]

like I mean that's exactly what we did and queue didn't backfill anyone, becasue from what i'm seeing here is that most people do NOT want to do that dungeon past first boss. i gave up waiting.



does it help to say that even when younger, my reflexes were not the greatest?

maybe it was just my luck and i got a clueless and/or badly geared group. but its pugging. I can't exactly ensure that the next group i get is going to be better. hell, I cannot even guaranteed that group will stick around for the entire thing. especially given how many people think its totally ok to leave otherwise decent group after first boss, it seems. my chances of getting another migraine it seems are much higher then my chances of getting a good group. at this point I'm just not going to queue up for dungeons at all.

meh.

I guess I'm just too old fashioned for modern WoW, thinking that joining a group means you make sure you have the time and are sticking around to finish what you started, with exception of group genuinely having no chance at finishing it.

My friend, really. Since you can’t get to heroic dungeons sub 155 ilvl, it’s literally impossible that a group, WHATEVER pug group, has no chances of finish the dungeons at that level.

Yes, maybe someone will die. Maybe you’ll wipe here and there. But if you are the healer, unless you started healing yesterday and have no clue on what your spells do, there’s no way you won’t be able to heal them. Trust me.

Apart from being hit by boss mechanics, if you can’t keep up with damage on others it means they are taking a ton of avoidable damage.

I’m 207 ilvl and I just finished a HoA 11 with +2 and 3-4 total deaths, it seemed easier than an heroic dungeon. Don’t give up. You don’t have to reach the KSM but M+ up to a certain level are totally feasible.

[The Butt Witch]

I see. thanks. still a shit move, make a goddamn premade instead of wasting people's time IMO.

Better just ask Blizzard to put the god damn legendary drop on the last boss of a dungeon. Surely it can't be that difficult. But as usual Blizzard doesn't give a shit about such details.

[TheRevenantHero]

Thinking this attitude is a Millenial thing. Just look back at the 80s where heroes were all about Greed and sucking off the teet of Reagan who basically epitomised selfishness

- - - Updated - - -



Says someone who has never coded before. Nothing is as simple as taking an hour and then "It's fixed." especially not with something as old as WoW. A "simple" line of code change can and has had some severe unforeseen consequences in the development of software.

Actually, removing a drop from a boss and slapping it on another boss isn't even an hour of coding. Blizzard removes drops from bosses all the time. They can easily shift a drop from a second boss to the final boss.

[Azerate]

I pretty much have, made my way through half the world quest before deciding that next time this calling comes around, i'm just going to ignore it all together (since i'm half way through that quest already and it does award almost 900 gold, i'm going to finish it. this time)

forgive me for wanting to vent.



thank you for recommendation, going to grab it asap.

- - - Updated - - -



as a healer I typically wait all of a minute at the most to get a dungeon, even when i queue up. I was queued up for 2 dungeons. I could have gotten another dungeon in that time and been almost finished with it, but by taking up the queue - they wasted the time that didn't need to be wasted. and for dps that were unfortunate to be dropped into groups with them? they just DOUBLED their wait time from 10 minutes to 20. the difference that it makes is that once they had made their premade group they no longer would have had to queue up. remember, that rogue got a tank buddy to help him, he was more then half way there already. getting couple more rogues and a healer buddy could have taken that 10 minutes, but after that they were golden. of course this also assumes that they are not dicks that would abandon those other rogue dps the moment they got their legendary whether the rest of them got it or not (yeah, pretty sure how THAT would go, and likely why they resorted to running groupfinder in a first place)

that you are STILL defending them is... telling.

Blizzard honestly should have learned by now


P.S. and before anyone says anything, yes I stay till the end of the dungeon/raid even if I already got the drop I was looking for. becasue i'm NOT a fucking dick who doesn't value anyone's time but their own.

Your problem OP is that you're trying very hard to attach ideology and complicated moral values to something that is an automated queue system for dugneons in a video game that matches people together and automatically fills up missing slots whenver someone leaves.

Some dudes you just left your dungeon, it's not a big deal nor anything worth giving so much attention to. And for sure that doesn't make them bad people as well

[neik]

Whenever my characters needs some gearing, I always pick a specific heroic dungeon rather than queuing for a random one. Daily lockouts for heroic dungeon no longer exist in Shadowlands, so players can queue and repeat any specific dungeon they desire whilst skipping the one they think might be a red flag.

Matchmaking algorithm isn't always perfect because deliberate leavers are operating at a large scale, and thus people do need to wait for replacements sometimes very long time. Some groups disbands entirely, people get disappointed and frustrated, it's not like problem doesn't exist. I left several TOP groups myself because warrior tanks quit after yet another failed attempt to loot the memory just to go and harass another random group. Multiply this toxic behavior by a lot warriors or any other deliberate leaver who's there chasing a memory, and you have a problem.

Anyone who is affected by deliberate leavers should go and thank to Blizzard's incompetence for not putting all memories strictly to end bosses loot tables. I hope that they are taking some notes to make sure stupid things like this doesn't happen in future.

[Twdft]

you know you can stay in the dungeon and just queue for more people and continue correct? like what do you even mean

To add to that: if someone leaves your group and you requeue in the tool you get put ahead of everyone else not already inside the dungeon.

That said, drop rate for legendaries in normal are abysmal, even heroic dungeons are too low. Fastest way to get them is to be carried by friends through mythic. Doesn't change Blizzard being stupid as fuck not to put them on endboss though.

[Etamalgren]

it is when you keep getting the same tank and dps EVEN AFTER ADDING THEM TO your IGNORE LIST.

Except that didn't happen. Once someone's on your ignore list, you won't get grouped with them ever again.

Bear in mind that it has to be your actual ignore list, not an addon's ignore list (i.e. IgnoreMore).

[chiddie]

Thinking this attitude is a Millenial thing. Just look back at the 80s where heroes were all about Greed and sucking off the teet of Reagan who basically epitomised selfishness

- - - Updated - - -



Says someone who has never coded before. Nothing is as simple as taking an hour and then "It's fixed." especially not with something as old as WoW. A "simple" line of code change can and has had some severe unforeseen consequences in the development of software.

Dude are you serious?

You really think it’s THAT difficult or ultra long to switch an ultra little part of who drops what from a mob to another?

[Witchblade77]

Except that didn't happen. Once someone's on your ignore list, you won't get grouped with them ever again.

Bear in mind that it has to be your actual ignore list, not an addon's ignore list (i.e. IgnoreMore).

see, that's what I expected as well, which is why I added them to ignore in a first place.
the only explanation I have is that I ignored that person at the same time as they were being slotted into our group, cause they left pretty much immediately even before the first boss died, and then we waited. and waited. and waited. and then i got tired of waiting

Your problem OP is that you're trying very hard to attach ideology and complicated moral values to something that is an automated queue system for dugneons in a video game that matches people together and automatically fills up missing slots whenver someone leaves.

Some dudes you just left your dungeon, it's not a big deal nor anything worth giving so much attention to. And for sure that doesn't make them bad people as well

see its what I thought until I found out WHY they left the group. also, i didn't say they were bad people, I said what they did was a jerk move. although I have to wonder about just how good of a person someone is when they treat other people that way, just because they are strangers on the internet.

My friend, really. Since you can’t get to heroic dungeons sub 155 ilvl, it’s literally impossible that a group, WHATEVER pug group, has no chances of finish the dungeons at that level.

Yes, maybe someone will die. Maybe you’ll wipe here and there. But if you are the healer, unless you started healing yesterday and have no clue on what your spells do, there’s no way you won’t be able to heal them. Trust me.

Apart from being hit by boss mechanics, if you can’t keep up with damage on others it means they are taking a ton of avoidable damage.

I’m 207 ilvl and I just finished a HoA 11 with +2 and 3-4 total deaths, it seemed easier than an heroic dungeon. Don’t give up. You don’t have to reach the KSM but M+ up to a certain level are totally feasible.

all right. you convinced me. I'm going to give heroic another try and keep my advil nearby just in case. I'm not the most amazing healer, not even close, but I've been healing casually through multiple expansions and in multiple games, so I'm not a complete noob either. I think the best time I had with random queue for heroic was back in Mists where you HAD to pass proving grounds to queue up. my unpopular opinion to this day is that Blizzard should have kept it as a requirement rather then optional achievement (I've only ever gotten silver on my healer and bronze on dps, but still)

It's alright Like I said your frustration is completely understandable and I'm in no way trying to teach you "life lessons" or however one could describe it. I was just hoping to help calm you down a bit by trying to compare it to other things in life, but it looks like I don't need to as you already know.

Luckily this expansion so far (and I'm on a retail break at the moment) I've not had to deal with much of this asshole-ary in game. However these forums never cease to amaze me lol.

I need to stop using capslock and my usual amount of cursing for emphasis. it, I think, conveys a wrong impression, but its just so much easier to hit capslock then bold specific words, that I give in too laziness. ah well. forums can definitely be.... a trip. but that's internet for ya.

[Acelius]

Can we also agree how dumb it is for Blizzard to make BiS items drop from other-than-last bosses in dungeons? It's just begging for trouble.

[Tiwack]

Often the replacements instantly leave because they see what they want can't be obtained with the boss dead, I don't get why they don't just make farm groups and enter the instance portal rather than abuse the lfg-autotool, there's no way this is the quickest way about this. It does take a while to get a group going aiming to clear the place because of so many players joining just to leave.

It's asinine to make these legos drop from anything other than endbosses.

[Onikaroshi]

My friend, really. Since you can’t get to heroic dungeons sub 155 ilvl, it’s literally impossible that a group, WHATEVER pug group, has no chances of finish the dungeons at that level.

You can get into heroic dungeons at any ilevel, you just can't queue for them til 155

[ydraw]

I was devastated when I read this thread and found out someone had to wait almost a minute to get new players for their normal mode random dungeon

[T-34]

No it's really not and to saying that is an utterly asinine comment. Leaving after the first boss gives you, at most, a 5 minute cooldown period where you can't queue again. Voluntarily leaving at any point in a dungeon prior to defeating the last boss should give you a 30 minute or maybe even longer cooldown. I'm sick of assholes bailing just because their legendary didn't drop. If they want to try and farm a legendary, they can find some friends to help them instead of fucking people over in matchmaking.

Well, the problem with your assertion is the small word "should". Blizzard 100% supports such behaviour and therefore it can't be toxic.
Trying to guilt-shame people to follow your own personal rules is toxic.

[mickybrighteyes]

I was pretty sure that Shadowdance gave this too - good to know that this isn't the case. Then I completely agree with this pve wise. In pvp I would still prefer this, tho. Greater burst > sustain imo.

i'm not sure it's even that great for pvp. That 4 second window isn't going to get you too many abilities in.

[scelero]

If the game is coded to allow this to happen, it's working as intended. Blizzard and other coders spend way more time coding things you can't do so as to not break the game, rules, etc and yet you think they forgot about this?

Yes. Five of your friends and you can make a group, go into LFR or Raid finder and go into a raid only planning on farming one specific boss and leaving. Just like 2 of you can use the Dunguen Finder Tool to find 3 other people help you farm other boss. The Tool is there for the very issue that arises, and that's people leave during the middle of it while others want to finish. OH NO, YOU GOTTA USE THE TOOL FOR WHAT IT'S ACTUALLY INTENDED FOR. The tool was to bring broken groups new members and have a way to teleport them there easily so they can continue as seamless as possible. Building a group from the ground up before you ever step foot inside somewhere is a bonus.

Also there is NO AGREEMENT made while doing these things in game. If you're talking about unwritten rules, well I got a few of my own too, wanna hear them?

The tool will continue to find people for both parties, albeit the group farming 1 boss and the group wanting to finish the run. It'll even pull from the same exact general pool of people saying 'hey, i'm looking for anything, open parameters'. This is how you should approach it realitically. We've seen people que for instances/raids/etc for sorts of various reasons. Some farm trash, some farm nodes, some rare mounts, a trinket. Others do it to complete it with no reward. The pool contains everyone. A melting pot of ideas on how to accomplish their goals doing the same task.

Accept it for what it is. Stop trying to force it to be used for one thing only.