5,800 Workers Voting to Unionize Their Amazon Facility

[gondrin]

Huh. Job posting sites like indeed.com and payscale.com are saying the average is $15/hour and go "up to" 17 or 18. If the minimum is $15, that implies a lot of part timers.

They might have old data. That I don't know. I just know they upped their minimum to $15 in 2018 right after Target stated they were going to do it in 2020 sometime. Walmart is making their average pay $15/hour(starting at around $13 depending on position).

[Breccia]

They might have old data. That I don't know.

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either. Still, $15/hour isn't huge, which was my point in the first place, but at least they're getting it and not, say, $7.25

[gondrin]

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either. Still, $15/hour isn't huge, which was my point in the first place, but at least they're getting it and not, say, $7.25

Yeah, for some parts of the country, it can be a decent paying job. Other parts, not so much. Especially for the work and hours per shift required.

[shimerra]

How do you know that? He hasn't gone to trial yet.

Conviction as in a firmly held belief or opinion. Because we all know that if nothing else Pro-Violence couldn't be arsed to act on his belief if it involves anything more than bending over to pick up the snacks he dropped on his way back from the kitchen. Getting to the trial stage means he'd have to have the balls to act in the first place.

[Edge-]

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either. Still, $15/hour isn't huge, which was my point in the first place, but at least they're getting it and not, say, $7.25

Also remember: Walmart has been a huge target for activists for decades at this point for their labor practices. From giving employees government assistance forms when they're hired because the company knew full well they'd be paying them sub-poverty wages and they'd need to enroll in safety net programs to the bullshit scheduling to keep employees from receiving benefits etc., they've long been a target.

That context is important because Walmart didn't just act on their own or just in response to a competitor.

[Breccia]

Conviction as in a firmly held belief or opinion

Yeah, not all my puns land on target.

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That context is important because Walmart didn't just act on their own or just in response to a competitor.

Indeed. I believe it's called "Lawful Evil".

[Fugus]

Amazon closing and reopening to prevent the union, doubt they will do that because of the PR and potential legal aspects of it, unlike Walmart, they aren't so entrenched that they can tell the entire public to fuck off and still have no issues because their brick and mortar shoppers have little to no alternatives for many things.

What I DO expect them to do is double down on efforts to automate as many workers away as possible. An effort that I completely and fully support and encourage. That future is coming anyways and the faster it gets here, the harder of a time the politicians have of ignoring it and pretending it isn't. The quicker and more public it makes that happen, the bigger the push for those at the top to acknowledge it and transition the economy to accept that reality when it comes to workers and their ability to survive.

[SirBeef]

That seems like a weird assumption, in my experience it's extremely easy to find many people willing to work in horrible conditions even below minimum wage (often immigrants).

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It's extremely hard to find "facts" and "evidence" about activities that happen outside of the scope of legality.

It's similar to how the FBI can only make estimates about how many children are being trafficked and forced into prostitution, while the actual evidence of that happening is almost non-existent. But it still happens in a much higher multitude than the officially reported numbers / documented cases.

Anecdotally I agree with the fact that the existence of welfare queens is widespread in countries with strong social safety nets (and not much in the way of checks and balances on that welfare).

Except they are not and the majority of people not working aren't not working because they'd rather not, but because circumstances forced them to stop looking.

I am not denying that there is welfare fraud or people unwilling to work, but trying to claim they are the majority extensive is absurd. You know there would be tons of evidence being blasted by the right if this were the case. Yet again, it's typical talking points with no evidence.

[Edge-]

Oh, I wouldn't say it's the majority either, it's probably a minority, but still quite a bit more than what official numbers might indicate.

Absent actual data, it's a fictional problem.

Just like the myth of "welfare queens" in the US, which was always little more than racist nonsense of the highest order.

What bothers me usually in these discussions is that some people have the tendency to pretend there aren't any people at all ever committing welfare fraud or... what for me was the most comical, the idea that the concept of a 'welfare queen' is some sort of 'racist myth' - while I wasn't even remotely considering race in the equation, but speaking entirely from a west-european perspective...

From a US perspective yes, it's always been racist garbage and nothing more.

Is there fraud in EU countries? Absolutely, there's fraud everywhere. But absent any data to quantify the fraud you can't realistically call it a problem as there's no way of actually knowing if the fraud is even statistically significant or some kind of minor rounding error.

I mean... can you really blame them when there's hordes of employees throwing themselves at their feet willing to do anything for a poverty wage?

Yes we god-damned can.

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman...doing-now.html

Because companies have repeatedly shown that even if desperate people are willing to let themselves be exploited, the company doesn't need to exploit the shit outta them.

Once more you're functionally blaming the wrong people.

[Edge-]

When someone says: "Slap me, please." I'm not going to be angry at the person that gave them a slap.

It's as simple as that, really.

What does slapping have to do with this? Does one need to slap others in order to earn money to like, live?

I mean, are you not angry that companies and those that run them are happy to exploit the fuck outta their workers for maximum profit?

[SirBeef]

Oh, I wouldn't say it's the majority either, it's probably a minority, but still quite a bit more than what official numbers might indicate.

What bothers me usually in these discussions is that some people have the tendency to pretend there aren't any people at all ever committing welfare fraud or... what for me was the most comical, the idea that the concept of a 'welfare queen' is some sort of 'racist myth' - while I wasn't even remotely considering race in the equation, but speaking entirely from a west-european perspective...

I'm all for strong social welfare systems, but I also think there should be strong checks and balances to combat fraud. The only thing that sours my mouth whenever I say that is that I'm well aware that corporations get much more welfare hand-outs than any common person could ever spend in a multitude of lifetimes - and that there might indeed be systemic forms of exploitation and abuse that put common people at a heavy disadvantage in the labor market as opposed to the employers. But I'm also not entirely on board with pretending that all employers are evil or malicious. I mean... can you really blame them when there's hordes of employees throwing themselves at their feet willing to do anything for a poverty wage? Are they supposed to be saints and say to themselves: "Damn, making money out of this is wrong. I should pay them an honest wage instead and perhaps not turn a profit at all..."

As edge said, if there is no evidence to support that claim of fraud, it probably ain't happening.

[kamuimac]

What does slapping have to do with this? Does one need to slap others in order to earn money to like, live?

I mean, are you not angry that companies and those that run them are happy to exploit the fuck outta their workers for maximum profit?

because its not explitation ?

the times of slavery are long over - anyone can leave their work whenever they want and start their own business.

nothing is stopping you from doing that when you are unhappy with your current work.

[Elegiac]

anyone can leave their work whenever they want and start their own business.

Sure, Jan. Prove it.

[Specialka]

because its not explitation ?

the times of slavery are long over - anyone can leave their work whenever they want and start their own business.

nothing is stopping you from doing that when you are unhappy with your current work.

I love how most of you @Pro-Violence, @Elegiac and some more can only have hyperbole or gross exageration.

"Welfare queens" do exist. Are they a majority ? Absolutetly not. But they do exist, mostly in lower class of society. Do people want to work for poverty wage ? Yes, they do. Do they "really" want to work for poverty wage ? Nope, but they still do because sometimes, that's all they can have.

As usually, on these boards, reality is grey and not black and white (pun intended).

And yes, you can leave your job when you want, should you do that ? I think not. Starting its own business is not easy as it sounds.
[Infraction]

[Shadowferal]

because its not explitation ?
the times of slavery are long over - anyone can leave their work whenever they want and start their own business.
nothing is stopping you from doing that when you are unhappy with your current work.

You can't be this clueless...not if you live here...or your one of those libertarians.
You have to live elsewhere and benefit from a societal infrastructure that keeps you well when you're between jobs.
Whatever. It's plain that you know nothing.

[Felya]

I love how most of you @Pro-Violence, @Elegiac and some more can only have hyperbole or gross exageration.

"Welfare queens" do exist. Are they a majority ? Absolutetly not. But they do exist, mostly in lower class of society. Do people want to work for poverty wage ? Yes, they do. Do they "really" want to work for poverty wage ? Nope, but they still do because sometimes, that's all they can have.

This is hypocritical... calling welfare abuse or fraud, welfare queens... is hyperbole. If you consider that it’s aimed exclusively at black women, it’s downright racist.

There are no people on welfare, driving around in Cadillacs, wearing mink coats. The term is completely antiquated, beyond racism. Who the fuck uses a Cadillac and mink coats, as a sign of wealth in 2020s?

[Specialka]

This is hypocritical... calling welfare abuse or fraud, welfare queens... is hyperbole. If you consider that it’s aimed exclusively at black women, it’s downright racist.

There are no people on welfare, driving around in Cadillacs, wearing mink coats. The term is completely antiquated, beyond racism. Who the fuck uses a Cadillac and mink coats, as a sign of wealth in 2020s?

Why do you bring black women in what I said ?

There are people that live exclusively from social aid and do not want to get a job. Not sure if they drive big car or such, but they do still exist.

[Felya]

Why do you bring black women in what I said ?

Can you not discuss subjects you know nothing about? Why even open your mouth?

[Specialka]

Can you not discuss subjects you know nothing about? Why even open your mouth?

Where did I talk about black women ?

[Felya]

Where did I talk about black women ?

When you defended the term “welfare queen”... wtf?

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... The USA isn't the center of the world.

It’s an American term, discussing unions of American works... it would be the Dole Queen, but it would be tough to pull of... since... Only fools and horses...

Edit: The normal term for welfare queen, without the racism, hyperbole or far right rhetoric, is “fraud”... just FYI... in a time where “you too” has turned into “u2”, ya’ll type “welfare queen”, instead of “fraud”... what’s up with that?