WoW Necromancer Hero Class

[Ielenia]

Helcular has been killing ppl in southshore for years, no amount of good deed erases what he has already done, an evil can do something good if it suits thier own interests and its nothing more than that.

And Alliance priests have been killing Horde people for years. Horde shamans have been killing Alliance people for years. Etc, etc. "Faction class has been killing opposing faction people for years".

There is no lore that states that flesh and bone can be generated from nothing, just because it can seem like that ingame doesnt make it the actual truth,

But the player not using the "cannibalize" racial is canon, for some reason? More double-standards.

A deathknight uses barely any necormancy as it is

This is demonstrably false. The DK's blood magic is necromancy. Their frost magic is necromantic in nature. Their unholy magic is necromancy.

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But it's really not an opinion. There's already a necromancer class in the game,

That is an opinion, because you consider the death knight to be the necromancer class. Which it is not.

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Where do warlocks specifically use mortal souls, none of thier abilities have the need to consume a soul and they can summon demons from the nether as they wish.

• Rain of Fire: costs three soul shards.
• Chaos Bolt: costs two soul shards.
• Call Dreadstalkers: costs two soul shards.
• Summon Felguard: costs one soul shard.
• Hand of Gul'dan: costs one to three soul shards.
• Seed of Corruption: costs one soul shard.
• Malefic Rapture: costs one soul shard.
• Ritual of Doom: costs one soul shard.
• Summon Felhunter: costs one soul shard.
• Summon Succubus: costs one soul shard.
• Summon Voidwalker: costs one soul shard.
• Summon Imp: costs one soul shard.

Once again, you have been proven wrong.

Necromancers cant get a pass because they completely rely on necromancy for everything, a deathknight does not.

The death knights rely on necromancy for everything, too. Death Strike is necromancy. Frost Strike is necromancy. Festering Strike is necromancy.

[kenn9530]

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Hercular is just killing any random alliance not soldiers, killing civilians is evil.

Blood magic is not necromancy, frost magic is not necromancy and unholy magic is not all necromancy.

Warlocks are not consuming souls especially not mortal souls but even then it doesnt matter because they are prolonging any suffering when they kill thier enemy. So still yet to be proven wrong by anything of actual worth. the only warlock that matters is the player warlock.

You seem to lack the understanding of what necromancy actually is, deathknights are made up from warlock souls and only posses a small amount of necromancy powers.

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It doesnt require fel magic to summon demons, its just a case of opening a portal to the twisting nether as during training even mages sometimes can summon a demon. There is no issue in using fel magic anyway.

Unholy nova is not a necromancy specific spell, its just a shadow version of holy nova.

[Ielenia]

Hercular is just killing any random alliance not soldiers, killing civilians is evil.

And Horde soldiers killed Stormsong civilians during BfA war when they attacked Brennadam.

Blood magic is not necromancy, frost magic is not necromancy and unholy magic is not all necromancy.

Prove it.

Warlocks are not consuming souls

You have been proven objectively wrong, and yet you still double-down on this lie?

especially not mortal souls

Except they are.

but even then it doesnt matter

Oh, it really matters considering your whole argument against necromancy about it being "evil" and "can only harm", etc.

because they are prolonging any suffering when they kill thier enemy. So still yet to be proven wrong by anything of actual worth. the only warlock that matters is the player warlock.

You have been proven objectively wrong in all your arguments so far. Except instead of admitting defeat, you just go "no u!" and just double-down on the lies.

You seem to lack the understanding of what necromancy actually is

This is nothing but heavy projection, considering everything you said.

deathknights are made up from warlock souls

Holy fuck, you are so wrong, here. Had you actually bothered to read the lore, you'd know that here are three generations of death knights:
• The first one, from the second RTS game are orc warlock souls in the bodies of dead human knights.
• The second one are embittered paladins who turn on humanity after accepting the Lich King's offer.
• And, finally, the third generation of death knights, which are what the current breed of DKs are, NPC and playable, are dead heroes of the Alliance and the Horde risen by the Lich King.

Which shows how little you know of the lore despite your boasts about knowing it better than the others. The more you talk, the more you show how little you know.

and only posses a small amount of necromancy powers.

Demonstrably false. They employ necromancy in almost every ability of theirs.

[Katchii]

Where do warlocks specifically use mortal souls, none of thier abilities have the need to consume a soul and they can summon demons from the nether as they wish.

Diseases are not necromancer abilities, and are easily cured as they are just used to weaken your for, raise dead is not really a key component of a deathknight its mostly a useless ability unless your unholy so unholy is the only spec that does anything with necromancy, im not saying i approve of deathknight completely as i dont really care about the class itself anyway, but they were implemented in WoW and players whine when you take things away.

Necromancers cant get a pass because they completely rely on necromancy for everything, a deathknight does not.

"Because I said so" is not an argument.

[TheRevenantHero]

And Horde soldiers killed Stormsong civilians during BfA war when they attacked Brennadam.


Prove it.


You have been proven objectively wrong, and yet you still double-down on this lie?


Except they are.


Oh, it really matters considering your whole argument against necromancy about it being "evil" and "can only harm", etc.


You have been proven objectively wrong in all your arguments so far. Except instead of admitting defeat, you just go "no u!" and just double-down on the lies.


This is nothing but heavy projection, considering everything you said.


Holy fuck, you are so wrong, here. Had you actually bothered to read the lore, you'd know that here are three generations of death knights:
• The first one, from the second RTS game are orc warlock souls in the bodies of dead human knights.
• The second one are embittered paladins who turn on humanity after accepting the Lich King's offer.
• And, finally, the third generation of death knights, which are what the current breed of DKs are, NPC and playable, are dead heroes of the Alliance and the Horde risen by the Lich King.

Which shows how little you know of the lore despite your boasts about knowing it better than the others. The more you talk, the more you show how little you know.


Demonstrably false. They employ necromancy in almost every ability of theirs.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_magic

Blood magic is 100% not necromancy because it's a tortured form of Life magic. Necromancy is Death magic. Frost magic is also not necromancy, it's a form of arcane magic. Even in the lich description it says they use frost magic and necromantic spells. If frost magic was necromancy, then why would they be separated in their description? Finally, when it comes to Unholy magic, I can't find anything directly linking it to necromancy. It's described as a creation of runic power but doesn't really say what school of magic it comes from. Unholy is also, seemingly, a type of power that ONLY death knights wield.

[Ielenia]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_magic

Blood magic is 100% not necromancy because it's a tortured form of Life magic. Necromancy is Death magic.

Actually: "In addition to true resurrection, it can also be used to create undead as seen with the followers of G'huun in Nazmir." From your own link.

Frost magic is also not necromancy, it's a form of arcane magic. Even in the lich description it says they use frost magic and necromantic spells. If frost magic was necromancy, then why would they be separated in their description?

"Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed." Necromancy can be frost spells, too.

Finally, when it comes to Unholy magic, I can't find anything directly linking it to necromancy.

"Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed." Necromancy is about raiding the dead and diseases.

Unholy is also, seemingly, a type of power that ONLY death knights wield.

It's not. "Unholy" is not a type of magic, it's just the death knight's spec name. The paladin is not using "retribution" magic. The demon hunter is not using "vengeance" magic. It's just a name, a brief description of the spec.

[TheRevenantHero]

Actually: "In addition to true resurrection, it can also be used to create undead as seen with the followers of G'huun in Nazmir." From your own link.


"Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed." Necromancy can be frost spells, too.


"Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed." Necromancy is about raiding the dead and diseases.


It's not. "Unholy" is not a type of magic, it's just the death knight's spec name. The paladin is not using "retribution" magic. The demon hunter is not using "vengeance" magic. It's just a name, a brief description of the spec.

Blood magic is still described as tortured Life magic and not Death magic. It can create undead, sure, but so can the Void. Does that make Void magic necromancy?

Chilling enemies with the power of death seems like it's more likely just dramatic description rather than being ACTUAL frost spells.

As I said, the only time anything unholy is mentioned it always goes back to DK's runic power. But I can see how unholy could possibly be considered necromancy. I blame Blizzard's shitty description abilities on why it sounds fuzzy.

[Ielenia]

Blood magic is still described as tortured Life magic and not Death magic. It can create undead, sure, but so can the Void. Does that make Void magic necromancy?

The text implies that what the void does is not necromancy, but just using the dead dinosaur bones as a vessel for the void. In a way, seems more 'puppetry' than 'resurrecting'.

Chilling enemies with the power of death seems like it's more likely just dramatic description rather than being ACTUAL frost spells.

I think saying it chills enemies is pretty descriptive of frost magic. And let me tell you: "frost magic" is not one single magic type. It just describe magic that can create frost. We have actually three types of frost magic, as far as I can tell: arcane, used by the mages; elemental, used by shamans; and necromantic, used by death knights, liches and some necromancers.

Just like we have three types of fire magic: arcane, used by mages; fel, used by warlocks; and elemental, used by shamans.

As I said, the only time anything unholy is mentioned it always goes back to DK's runic power.

Because that is how the death knights channel their necromantic powers: through the runes on their runeblades. The death knights on their own don't have any power.

I blame Blizzard's shitty description abilities on why it sounds fuzzy.

Actually their description is pretty much easy to understand. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, here.

[TheRevenantHero]

The text implies that what the void does is not necromancy, but just using the dead dinosaur bones as a vessel for the void. In a way, seems more 'puppetry' than 'resurrecting'.


I think saying it chills enemies is pretty descriptive of frost magic. And let me tell you: "frost magic" is not one single magic type. It just describe magic that can create frost. We have actually three types of frost magic, as far as I can tell: arcane, used by the mages; elemental, used by shamans; and necromantic, used by death knights, liches and some necromancers.

Just like we have three types of fire magic: arcane, used by mages; fel, used by warlocks; and elemental, used by shamans.


Because that is how the death knights channel their necromantic powers: through the runes on their runeblades. The death knights on their own don't have any power.


Actually their description is pretty much easy to understand. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, here.

Necromancy is magic that reanimates dead creatures. Since the Void was used to reanimate dead dinosaurs, it is necromancy. Just a different type. Which is exactly what blood magic is.

Chilling someone also means to strike fear in them. Though it's ironic that you say frost magic isn't one single magic type but say necromancy is one single magic type despite the Void and blood magic being used to reanimate corpses. Which would mean there are three forms of necromancy: Void, used by Umbric who is a mage; Blood magic used by blood mages warping Life magic; and Death magic used by necromancers.

I'm not making a mountain out of anything. The description is vague enough that we can't be completely sure whether I'm right or you are when it comes to unholy magic.

[Triceron]

Necromancy is magic that reanimates dead creatures. Since the Void was used to reanimate dead dinosaurs, it is necromancy. Just a different type. Which is exactly what blood magic is.

Not quite.

Necromancy is specifically Death Magic. It is not Void.

The dead can be raised or reanimated without Death magic, and not all raising of the dead is considered Necromancy. Ressurection is a form of raising the dead using the light, for example. Or an undead variant, look at Calia. That is not Necromancy, that is raising the dead using Light.

What Umbric did was raise a void dinosaur. It is reanimated. Certainly undead too. Not Necromancy though. It is raising through Void, that is all.

[Ielenia]

Chilling someone also means to strike fear in them.

You're taking a WAAAAAAY too vague definition for the word "chill", and you're still doing it erroneously. To use the word 'chill' to mean 'strike fear' the correct sentence would be "chill their hearts". And considering we have the description literally saying "chill their enemies" plus the fact that death knights can use frost magic, plus the fact that the overwhelming majority of liches use frost magic, I think it becomes painstakingly obvious that their frost magic is necromantic in nature.

Though it's ironic that you say frost magic isn't one single magic type but say necromancy is one single magic type despite the Void and blood magic being used to reanimate corpses.

I never said that, though. Especially since my original argument was that the frost magic the death knight uses is necromantic in nature, i.e., a type of necromancy.

Which would mean there are three forms of necromancy: Void, used by Umbric who is a mage;

Again, it doesn't look to be necromancy. Seems to be more like puppetry than necromancy. Like the blood elves animating brooms in Silvermoon.

I'm not making a mountain out of anything. The description is vague enough that we can't be completely sure whether I'm right or you are when it comes to unholy magic.

It's not vague, though. You're "forcing" it to be vague.

[kenn9530]

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you have not proved me wrong about anything so far just putting out random theories with no basis in actual fact.

Your the one claiming everything about a deathknight is necromancy magic when it clearly is not the case, so it is you that needs to prove your so called claims, blood magic is vampiric magic not necromancy, frost magic for a deathkight is just a combination of frost itself or both frost and shadow, diseases are not even necromancy, the only necromancy a deathknight has is in some unholy powers to do with raising the dead and buffing them.

It actually shows how little you actually know about about the lore, the 3rd gen deathknights were only selected from the best and strongest, there is no actual method stated on how the 3rd gen came to be, but the lich king has access to as many souls as needed, the main use of infusing souls is so the skills of the soul can be used so a deathknight doesnt need years of training to be effective, there is no point in a deathknight if they have to spent years training just to use half decent abilties, runeblades alone only posses a limited number of integrated powers.

[Ielenia]

you have not proved me wrong about anything so far

Your claim: "warlocks do not consume souls"
My answer: a bunch of abilities that consume souls

Your claim: "death knights are just warlock souls."
My answer: an explanation about the three different generations of death knights.

Your claim: "death knights only have little necromantic powers."
My answer: death knights have necromancy in almost every ability of theirs.

That's just off the top of my head. So, yes, you have been proven wrong.

just putting out random theories with no basis in actual fact.

So... the actual lore of the game is "just random theories" and "not factual at all" in your mind?

Your the one claiming everything about a deathknight is necromancy magic when it clearly is not the case,

I've presented evidence. You, so far, only made wild claims after wild claims, almost all of which contradict established lore.

so it is you that needs to prove your so called claims,

I have. You ignoring and handwaving away what I write is not me "not showing evidence". It's you being dishonest. Evidence of that is how you snip away everything and just respond to random, unspecified points.

It actually shows how little you actually know about about the lore,

And this show much you're projeting.

the 3rd gen deathknights were only selected from the best and strongest, there is no actual method stated on how the 3rd gen came to be, but the lich king has access to as many souls as needed, the main use of infusing souls is so the skills of the soul can be used so a deathknight doesnt need years of training to be effective, there is no point in a deathknight if they have to spent years training just to use half decent abilties, runeblades alone only posses a limited number of integrated powers.

Here is how you prove you're just projecting and are full of shit:

"The single most important piece of equipment to a death knight is the runeblade. It is through the runeblade that a death knight commands the powers of frost, blood and the unholy. The runeblade also acts as a vessel to store the death knight's runic power.

The runeblade is an extension of your being. A death knight cannot battle without a runeblade."

[VinceVega]

I think my biggest problem with the current talked about classes on MMO-Champion is that they are either edgy (necromancer) or quircky (tinker)
If i had to choose i take edgy 1000 times.

But i rather have a "good" aligned class now. We allready had DKs and DHs and the neutral Monk. Time for a light or life based class. Why does everything have to be dark or comic relive?

[Triceron]

I think my biggest problem with the current talked about classes on MMO-Champion is that they are either edgy (necromancer) or quircky (tinker)
If i had to choose i take edgy 1000 times.

But i rather have a "good" aligned class now. We allready had DKs and DHs and the neutral Monk. Time for a light or life based class. Why does everything have to be dark or comic relive?

Not all are dark. Bard and Dragonsworn are also options.

[VinceVega]

Not all are dark. Bard and Dragonsworn are also options.

I count bard towards comic relieve. never liked the concept in any game^^
Especially that wow does not have a support class system. An making damage with music is just.... to weird.

Dragonsworne. Yeah why not. If it is not just a fire mage and stuff like that why not.

[TheRevenantHero]

You're taking a WAAAAAAY too vague definition for the word "chill", and you're still doing it erroneously. To use the word 'chill' to mean 'strike fear' the correct sentence would be "chill their hearts". And considering we have the description literally saying "chill their enemies" plus the fact that death knights can use frost magic, plus the fact that the overwhelming majority of liches use frost magic, I think it becomes painstakingly obvious that their frost magic is necromantic in nature.


I never said that, though. Especially since my original argument was that the frost magic the death knight uses is necromantic in nature, i.e., a type of necromancy.


Again, it doesn't look to be necromancy. Seems to be more like puppetry than necromancy. Like the blood elves animating brooms in Silvermoon.


It's not vague, though. You're "forcing" it to be vague.

There is a difference between necromancy and Necromancy. If magic is reanimating dead creatures, it's necromancy with a lower case "n". Saying that Umbric is just creating puppets is simply you not wanting to admit you're wrong about blood magic.

[kenn9530]

Your claim: "warlocks do not consume souls"
My answer: a bunch of abilities that consume souls

Your claim: "death knights are just warlock souls."
My answer: an explanation about the three different generations of death knights.

Your claim: "death knights only have little necromantic powers."
My answer: death knights have necromancy in almost every ability of theirs.

That's just off the top of my head. So, yes, you have been proven wrong.


So... the actual lore of the game is "just random theories" and "not factual at all" in your mind?


I've presented evidence. You, so far, only made wild claims after wild claims, almost all of which contradict established lore.


I have. You ignoring and handwaving away what I write is not me "not showing evidence". It's you being dishonest. Evidence of that is how you snip away everything and just respond to random, unspecified points.


And this show much you're projeting.


Here is how you prove you're just projecting and are full of shit:

"The single most important piece of equipment to a death knight is the runeblade. It is through the runeblade that a death knight commands the powers of frost, blood and the unholy. The runeblade also acts as a vessel to store the death knight's runic power.

The runeblade is an extension of your being. A death knight cannot battle without a runeblade."

The player warlock doesnt consume souls, spending a soul shard is not consuming a soul no matter what you want to believe and the other specs dont use soul shards at all.

The creation of the arthas deathknights are not even documented so no you cant prove souls were not used to create them.

And its a fact not all deathknight abilities are necromancy, if you beleive blood and frost are necromancy then you just enjoying lying.

A runeblade is not able to hold every single power a deathknight would ever use, thats another reason to be infused with a warlock soul to gain more powers that dont require training or a weapon, the player right now is not actually using a runeblade and if you have been a deathknight for a long time you could train to use those abilities without a weapon, main advantage of the runeblade is that it grants access to powers without training.

[Ielenia]

There is a difference between necromancy and Necromancy.

Which is...?

If magic is reanimating dead creatures, it's necromancy with a lower case "n".

And what would constitute "necromancy with an uppercase 'N'"?

Saying that Umbric is just creating puppets is simply you not wanting to admit you're wrong about blood magic.

How do you know that the void magic animating those puppets is anything different than the arcane magic animating golems in Silvermoon? Because I hope even you would realize there is a difference between yanking a soul out of Shadowlands and forcefully binding it into its corpse, and just animating the corpse without pulling the soul from the Shadowlands.

[Imperator4321]

There is a difference between necromancy and Necromancy. If magic is reanimating dead creatures, it's necromancy with a lower case "n". Saying that Umbric is just creating puppets is simply you not wanting to admit you're wrong about blood magic.

Isn't it the same as how we have Fire magic being sourced from Nature magic (Shamans), Arcane Magic (Mages), Fel (Warlocks) why can't animating the dead come from Death or Void magic, why can't "blood magic" come from both Life and Death magic.

The source calling blood magic "tortured life magic" is also only referring to the Mogu's anima golems we have no indication that means ALL forms of blood magic are "tortured life magic" the other source is a tweet from 2015 which is before the Warcraft Chronicle Volume 1 release which heavily retconned how magic in WoW worked (before Fel & Necromancy were corrupt forms of arcane magic) so the "tortured life magic" comment may be outdated information as well.