Rated BG and mentality

[Manageth]

Hi,

For thoses who make RGB group at 1500 CR, and only want meta spec.

I would like to understand your reasons, your point of view. Why did you only need and only want S-tier specializations ?

Do you think that at 1500 CR an S-tier is more viable? Why do you take a S-tier at 1500 CR with 1500 Exp and refuse the others with 2400 exp and 226+ gear ?

[m4elstr0m]

Because people don't think with their own brain, instead they read some pro player tier rankings and anything below s-tier is now not even playable. Sheeeeeeeeps

[melzas]

If you don't like their criteria of what to invite, then go ahead and make your own group instead of making pointless threads on mmo champ.

[Manageth]

If you don't like their criteria of what to invite, then go ahead and make your own group instead of making pointless threads on mmo champ.

Isn't the problem, if you doesn't have the time to make a group, you can search one. I'm 2400 Exped Mistweaver with 226 ilv and currently duelist, I got refused from grp at 1500 CR because "i'm not dpriest or pal" . I'm not dpriest or pal but have twice the exp and the rating, I think I can play at 1500 (:

The question is not should I apply or start my group, but what are the reasons for such a mentality?

Of course, by only wanting S-Tier (-even bad S-Tier) there is no risk of going up ..

Because people don't think with their own brain, instead they read some pro player tier rankings and anything below s-tier is now not even playable. Sheeeeeeeeps

But pro players are .. pro !
What's working at 3000 CR isn't working at 1500 with people who half-manage their spec.
S-Tier for S-Players, for others its more important to know how to play your specialization rather than to have the best on paper and to play it like a broomstick.

[melzas]

Isn't the problem, if you doesn't have the time to make a group, you can search one. I'm 2400 Exped Mistweaver with 226 ilv and currently duelist, I got refused from grp at 1500 CR because "i'm not dpriest or pal" . I'm not dpriest or pal but have twice the exp and the rating, I think I can play at 1500 (:

The question is not should I apply or start my group, but what are the reasons for such a mentality?

Of course, by only wanting S-Tier (-even bad S-Tier) there is no risk of going up ..

I mean, it's obvious the group you applied to was lead by clueless scrub, why make so much fuss about it? I'm surpised you wanted to get into it so bad that being declined prompted you to make this thread lol.

[Manageth]

I mean, it's obvious the group you applied to was lead by clueless scrub, why make so much fuss about it? I'm surpised you wanted to get into it so bad that being declined prompted you to make this thread lol.

Because it's not one group who refuse one time, it's everyday. Like don't play mistweaver if you doesn't have the time to wait between refusals, refusals, and refusals, each days.

I would like to understand the motivation and the arguments of players behind (having) this stupid mentality, thoses who decline us every day because who aren't S-Tier spec.

[melzas]

Because it's not one group who refuse one time, it's everyday. Like don't play mistweaver if you doesn't have the time to wait between refusals, refusals, and refusals, each days.

I would like to understand the motivation and the arguments of players behind (having) this stupid mentality, thoses who declined us every day

I have mw that I play RBGs with and guess what. I make my own groups. If you want to play non meta spec you have to deal with declines, this is how it has been since forever.

Non meta -> make your own groups or play with friends, else you will suffer constant declines no matter how good you are.

[Kaykay]

Because rbg sucks, and it's about not wasting an hour creating a group and having everyone leave after 1 match, because the other team played meta bs, and you didnt.

Sure they could take a 2400 xp mistweaver, but mistweavers are generally bad, and die instantly in every form of pvp unless babysat from start to finish.

Are there some genius mistweavers that can carry? sure, but the chances of finding one at 1500cr is abysmal. Similar to Rogues not playing sub, or warlocks not playing affliction, hunters playing survival.

Can they be good? yes.
But the statistics say that the answer to wether they actually are good. Is no, more often than not.

The same thing happens in m+, why bring the brewmaster when you can get a veng dh, why get a shadowpriest when you can get a mage. Even though the shadowpriest played well can slap a bad mage out of the water, the likelyhood of that happening is very small.

So meta picks are what gets played in pugs. I'd be worried joining a pug that doesn't care about meta picks, because that directly affects my chances of winning.

[Manageth]

Because rbg sucks, and it's about not wasting an hour creating a group and having everyone leave after 1 match, because the other team played meta bs, and you didnt.

I'm not askip about what to do for playing RBG with my spec, but want to know the reason of being declined each day.

Sure they could take a 2400 xp mistweaver, but mistweavers are generally bad, and die instantly in every form of pvp unless babysat from start to finish.

But a 2400xp mistweaver is better than any 1500 S-tier healer. He had by far more knowledge, probably more geared, than any 1500 S-tier healer. It doesn't explain why they decline.

So meta picks are what gets played in pugs. I'd be worried joining a pug that doesn't care about meta picks, because that directly affects my chances of winning.

I disagree, bad players increase the chances of losing, has nothing to do with meta or not meta.

A bad player who plays S-Tier remains bad, can do anything with the BG, he will never replace the efficiance of a midd-tier who knows what he has to do because of xp gap.

Meta is for top players who have the xp and the mastery of the class to take advantage of this ... advantage. If you have 500hp but you don't know how to drive, you don't become a pilot.

[Zyky]

Hi,

For thoses who make RGB group at 1500 CR, and only want meta spec.

I would like to understand your reasons, your point of view. Why did you only need and only want S-tier specializations ?

Do you think that at 1500 CR an S-tier is more viable? Why do you take a S-tier at 1500 CR with 1500 Exp and refuse the others with 2400 exp and 226+ gear ?

because meta teams win games, having garbage on the team like a BM hunter or fury warrior hinders the group and makes it more likely you'll lose the game.

[Manageth]

because meta teams win games, having garbage on the team like a BM hunter or fury warrior hinders the group and makes it more likely you'll lose the game.

Meta teams lose games too, because being meta isn't being good.
In the other situation, theres non-meta teams who wins, because not being meta isn't being bad.

It's not an argument

If you are 2100/2400 as BM Hunter or Fury warrior it's because you have some skills, more than someone else at the same rating as S-tier spec, it shows that you know your spec well, that you have the experience to play at this rating (and therefore necessarily at lower ratings).

I am much more playful to see a Fury at 2100 than an umpteenth average arms, and people are used to playing against meta, much less against niches. it can destabilize more than one to have a good fury warrior in front.

[Ange]

I would like to understand your reasons, your point of view. Why did you only need and only want S-tier specializations ?

That is a highly shifted perspective.

PVP is driven by metrics and meta since 16 years, because it is the most unbalanced gaming mode in WoW. The simple fact that shadowlands gearing is complettly restricted in amount and by chance in PVE by design, while PVP lacks any real restrictions and is in a broken state, pushes the toxic small subcommunity to the extremes.

If you get the fastest gearing possible in the most broken state of the game - OF COURSE - metrics and meta are used to min-max the whole thing, to make it as EASY as possible. Its not about fun, challenge or prestige, its about exploiting the system.

If you ENJOY the sub 1% minigame that is PVP/RBG, that is declining since 2 expansions very hard, you know allready that it is a toxic small community that will and allways have been using EVERYTHING allowed or not allowed in this game, from MMR-5500 exploiting to wintrading. Everything is fair game in PvP, because the majority of the pvp-players dont care or even like this MMO. The "FUN" part in PVP usually begins at cheating and exploiting and is only cleared up by blizzard at the extremes with wide banwaves. They simply dont care for this sub-game that much and usually neither the community.

Without the shift in gearing that is complettly stupid right now, with the one sided PVE restrictions, the only reason why you even touch this toxic hell hole in a random group, is to take advantage of the current situation.

You are not the victim in this story.

[predlol]

We play with a rsham, 0 disc, TWO dks, 0 boomie, 0 rogues at 2.4mmr in rbg with my pve guild. Most of the times at least, sometimes we have one of those meta specs.
I’m pretty sure things would be just fine with a Mw.

Let’s put it this way: if the people in the group look and act like noobs; then you should be happy to be declined. This way you do not waste time with scrubs.

(I get that this is a toxic way of putting it, apologies for that)

[Manageth]

We play with a rsham, 0 disc, TWO dks, 0 boomie, 0 rogues at 2.4mmr in rbg with my pve guild. Most of the times at least, sometimes we have one of those meta specs.
I’m pretty sure things would be just fine with a Mw.

Let’s put it this way: if the people in the group look and act like noobs; then you should be happy to be declined. This way you do not waste time with scrubs.

(I get that this is a toxic way of putting it, apologies for that)

I totally agree with you, the problem is, it's not about being declined once in a while, but pretty much all the time.

Can understand if i'm 2100 and apply to 2100 MMR, because theres probably 2100-2200-2300.... S-tier who apply at the same time. I'm not the best player and I play trash-tier spec (lol)
But being 2100 and apply to 1500 and being refused by 1500CR players with -20 ilvl because i'm not S-Tier, where's the joke ?

[Kaykay]

I'm not askip about what to do for playing RBG with my spec, but want to know the reason of being declined each day.



But a 2400xp mistweaver is better than any 1500 S-tier healer. He had by far more knowledge, probably more geared, than any 1500 S-tier healer. It doesn't explain why they decline.



I disagree, bad players increase the chances of losing, has nothing to do with meta or not meta.

A bad player who plays S-Tier remains bad, can do anything with the BG, he will never replace the efficiance of a midd-tier who knows what he has to do because of xp gap.

Meta is for top players who have the xp and the mastery of the class to take advantage of this ... advantage. If you have 500hp but you don't know how to drive, you don't become a pilot.

Everyone and their mother writes 2400 xp in their applications, And nobody checks wether it's tbc or shadowlands, especially at low cr people try to sneak xp in.

But a 2400xp mistweaver is better than any 1500 S-tier healer. He had by far more knowledge, probably more geared, than any 1500 S-tier healer. It doesn't explain why they decline.

Not necesarily, the meta revolves around toolkits and utility, if you replace a paladin, priest or shaman with a monk, you lose tremor/bop/bubble/mass dispel and power infusion.

There's a reason why meta classes are meta classes. So a halfdecent metaclass player is probably gonna do okay compared to a high xp memespec.

Add to that, that many people playing meta comps, play around those utilities, and might not be familiar with what the mw brings. Pvp is more than hps afterall, and people will find it more difficult to teamwork with under-represented classes that they potentially haven't played with before.

And finally, xp is never a guarantee that the player is good. A monk signs up with 2400 in 3v3 but 1500 in rbg, whats more likely, that he's one of the 5 mistweavers playing pvp, or that he's a windwalker trying out an offspec.

The raid leaders job is to reduce chance of failure by choosing players who are least likely to lose you the game.

[Zyky]

Meta teams lose games too, because being meta isn't being good.
In the other situation, theres non-meta teams who wins, because not being meta isn't being bad.

It's not an argument

If you are 2100/2400 as BM Hunter or Fury warrior it's because you have some skills, more than someone else at the same rating as S-tier spec, it shows that you know your spec well, that you have the experience to play at this rating (and therefore necessarily at lower ratings).

I am much more playful to see a Fury at 2100 than an umpteenth average arms, and people are used to playing against meta, much less against niches. it can destabilize more than one to have a good fury warrior in front.

You took what I said out of context. I said that you're more likely to lose with non meta teams, not that only meta teams win games.

You playing Fury(same to BM) in rbgs is a hinderance to the group, period. You're likely being carried to 2100, which isn't difficult at all. You serve no purpose playing Fury. Fury brings absolutely nothing to the table, their damage is also subpar compared to arms in pvp, they have no cc that arms doesn't also have, they're missing the strong mortal strike. Personally I don't care what you say, I would never bring a fury warrior into an rbg, they offer nothing and if I wanted to bring a non meta melee I'd bring a feral druid because at least they have some value compared to fury. This coming from a Fury Warrior main.

[Eazy]

Why 2400 Mistweaver would even try to join 1500 CR RBG?
And you know that high rating experience isn't really a good indicator of skill? I mean, if you had 2400 in MoP then it isn't the same as having 2400 in SL.

The best answer for your thread would be: make your own group or deal with it.
There's nothing you can do about it. I am playing niche spec for PvE also, but people somtimes check me out(logs or r.io score) and they're inviting me... and sometimes they're just straight declining me(which is even more than fine, because I'd rather play with someone who's checking other people before inviting them to the group instead of someone who's just looking for the meta class group, it's a win-win situation).

[Shaderson]

Why 2400 Mistweaver would even try to join 1500 CR RBG?
And you know that high rating experience isn't really a good indicator of skill? I mean, if you had 2400 in MoP then it isn't the same as having 2400 in SL.

Its the mindset that comes with that high rating experience. Rating experience is not how skillful you play your character on your own, its how can you work with others on your team, from peeling, to setups, to communication. And most important, learning from your mistakes.

I played with a resto druid 2 expansions ago, he was skilled, but whenever we lost a game, he wasn't learning on what he did wrong, he was badmouthing how bad the players on the opponent team were, even though they beat us. He might still be around 1800s, while I hit glad the next season.

[damneddog]

At 1500cr, I was rolling YOLO Pug, no voice, lol...

But to be honest, having achieved 2.1 as a disc priest, and looking back into my lower rating brackets, I have seen a significant jump in my gameplay at 2.1k exp vs 1.5k exp.

And yes, take the 2.4k exp (provided its legit exp and not like WOTLK exp). Shadowlands is shadowlands, BFA is BFA. There are some experiences in RBG that only a high rated player will experience for sure, such as when to spin a flag, when to steal a flag, when to peel out etc, all these are regardless of spec/class. Game awareness is something i find the biggest difference between high rated vs low rated exp players.

For example, at below 1800cr, I see many players trying to cap a base mid fight. They are hoping that they can steal that base. Sorry but in 2.1k exp and above, you are putting your team at a disadvantage by not CC or dpsing and trying to 'steal' a base midfight. You only start to cap when you have wiped them completely and body looted them, and maybe, if their trinket is down, and you can still CC without diminishing, you cap and ask your team mate to CC to buy time. Body looting is also very poorly practiced at low exp. They keep wondering how they come back and res so quick, but a simple body loot changes the game. something low exp players never bother to understand, they keep tunneling their targets and ignoring dead players body looting.

For healers, it is knowing when to peel out to drink or support a base before it gets attacked by stealth. I see many low exp players having all 3 heals sitting in main fight not knowing when to peel, only to react when they had lost a base only to peel out, but it will be too late. I've also seen low exp healers wandering around in big team fights, not using LOS, or map awareness, just trying to tunnel health bars and reaching out to heal their team mates, not understanding where to stand. When you are with tank, spin duty, it is your job to survive 4-5 player against you and your tank. Your job is to survive while you cap the other bases as you kept 4-5 in your contested area for as long as possible. I've seen good healers buying a lot of time with tank, and i have also seen bad healers unable to spin long enough to make a difference in game play.

so yes, next time when a 226 ques up, legit duelist RBG exp, pick them! It is questionable for the 2v2/3v3 226 queing for RBG, arena is not the same as RBG, but you really cant go wrong with high exp RBG player on your side, regardless of meta comps at 1500 rating!

And yes, sometimes i que for low rated just to help them out and have fun, but being a dpriest 226, its almost an instant invite. i understand the struggle of mw monks in RBG, we used to laugh at MW monks and joke on how we just ignore them and eventually they cant heal anymore. But then we were paired against high mmr team with MW monks and we got demolished with off meta comps at high mmr. At high mmr, I find that having good players and being very vocal, is way better than having a meta comp. this is because the random maps have each to its advantage, some maps you want a druid tank, some maps, you want no tanks, some maps, a shadowpriest acts like a lay on hands after a bubble sac, some maps affliction locks and boomkins own with rot dmg. but the most consistent games are when you play with good players ignoring a 'meta' comp. i know players keep wanting 1 hpal, 2dpriest as the meta healers. they have not seen mw, rsham, druids, at high rating and learn to respect those classes yet.

[BetrayedOf52]

I notice most of these leaders are on their 190 unenchanted alt, and most likely need the best of the best to carry their lazy asses