TK and SSC must be launch content

[Gorsameth]

I wonder.

Did you ever get an answer?

I don't think it "must be". Release it as it was originally released because...that is how it was and it apparently was good....

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Why could you not access it? Since both LV and KT originally dropped 4 of the quest items needed, "all you had to do" was kill them 6-7 times (and do your attunements)

Not like my guild was able to...by the time we progressed, all it needed was one kill and 25 ppl got attuned.

Give the folks who lust after the old and great times of TBC something to "work" for. Also a taste of how "timegating" always existed and isn't a thing of the much loathed retail

If someone tries to pretend timegating didn't exist in 'ye old days' they need to look at Sunwell's release schedule where the word literally comes from as there were timed gates blocking progress that didn't open until weeks after it released.

[shise]

I have great memories from TBC and I'm pretty sure what made it great was that all tiers were almost always current. I'm all for changes to make the gaming experience better, but content phasing should not happen for a game that did not have it.

Exactly. I keep repeating this everywhere. And that is also what WoW needs to go back to.

[ClassicPeon]

Not sure how Blizzard could punish you if you play on an illegal server. Especially if you are not subbed. And even if you are subbed....how would they find out. Also they don't have the powers of the Stasi, Gestapo, KGB....whatever.

It is like weed laws in my country. You can smoke it, you can possess it...you just cannot sell it. So basically ridiculous. Even more ridiculous because you can legally kill yourself with tobacco and alcohol. Also medications.

Its not stupid actually. Blizzard has to do whatever they can to protect their IP and make lawsuits where possible. Otherwise they wont be able to legally maintain it. Yeah, thats actually how it works.

I'm not sure what the other comments are refering to. I didnt act like blizzard was some sort of judge or executioner

[breadisfunny]

absolutely not.

[stevenho]

I have great memories from TBC and I'm pretty sure what made it great was that all tiers were almost always current.

It doesn't really matter though.
Instead of clearing T4+T5 in 1 day (Kara offday) you will now clear T4 in one day until T5 is released in x weeks, then it will once again be T4+T5.

It definitely was not what made TBC great.

[Nyel]

Only means you were late. @hulkgor states something that was a fact: "Prior to Patch 2.4 completion of N [70R] The Vials of Eternity was needed in order to enter the instance"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Battle_for...jal_(instance)

If ppl want the true TBC Classic...you want the proper way to do it.

Oh yeah..and as usual I hate this "many guilds" thingy...as if any of you were actually in a position to track what "many" guilds did back then with 8 million ppl playing. Or maybe "many guilds" just sucked so hard that they only progressed after that requirement was removed.

I never said he lied, but neither did I. A lot of guilds did it exactly that way - doesn't matter if my guild has been late or not. Raiding in TBC was way slower than in later expansions.

I say many guilds because it's a simple fact as one could see back then by the number of guilds starting to progress in MH while they still haven't killed Kael'thas. You know, logged raiding progress back then was already a thing.

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Exactly. I keep repeating this everywhere. And that is also what WoW needs to go back to.

This.

Since WoW began invalidating all previous content with every new content patch the longevity of the game incredibly suffered.

[Stanelis1]

T5 really needs to be in TBC at launch because if it isn't the case it won't really be TBC. Best thing about TBC was how the fastest guilds were rewarded by being able to progress into T5 while still being undergeared. The reward in TBC isn't gear, it is how you can push forward and take on new challenges.

Already complaining to get the next tier faster, one expansion and one patch before due date. That's a new record lads.

Except you re missing the point, which is that in TBC T5 was released along the expansion's release. Which is something quite unique in all the history of MMORPGs.

I never said he lied, but neither did I. A lot of guilds did it exactly that way - doesn't matter if my guild has been late or not. Raiding in TBC was way slower than in later expansions.

Depends on which guilds you re talking about. I did all the progress with the attunements back in the day and completed SSC and TK way before we killed any bosses in hyjal and BT (due to the attunements).

[Niwes]

Phase 2 release of tier 5 will break up the TBC experience. Tier 4 does not stand up on it's own. TBC is defined by the long winding road that was the raiding and attunement journey. It would be better to release TBC classic later and have all launch content available as it was in January 2007.

And if anyone thinks this would obsolete tier 4, you do not understand how BC worked. Content pacing is a concept for the modern game. BC content innately paces itself.

no, it „must“ not.

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nonetheless, for ppl being curious how it was paced out back in the day:

Major patches
The Burning Crusade received four major content patches. The patch release schedule is radically different from the original World of Warcraft - content is introduced in large chunks, and balancing fixes are often added as separate minor patches between the content patches.

Patch 2.1 introduced daily quests (and the relevant Netherwing/Ogri'la /Skyguard zones such as Skettis) and the Black Temple 25-man raid content. It can also be argued that this patch unlocked the Hyjal wing of the Caverns of Time, since prior to 2.1, Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj would only drop a limited number of attunement vials to Hyjal per kill, requiring several months of farming prior to fielding a 25-man raid into Hyjal.
Patch 2.2 introduces voice communications software built into the game client (as well as video recording for Mac clients).
Patch 2.3 introduces the Zul'Aman 10-man raid instance and leveling improvements for levels 20-60.
Patch 2.4 introduces the Isle of Quel'Danas, a new outdoor zone which includes the Magisters' Terrace, a 5-man instance, and the Sunwell Plateau, a 25-man raid. Also included are Combat Log improvements and the introduction of a global Arena Tournament realm.


src: https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...urning_Crusade

[ryjkur]

You needed to kill Kael and Vashj to get into Hyjal......

Vashj was killed before patch 2.1, but Kael wasn't. Therefore no-one killed any bosses in Hyjal before 2.1 either. When Kael'thas was 'fixed', most guilds just killed the first boss for the BT attunement and went into BT. Archimonde died AFTER Illidan in the world first race.

You also needed to kill them multiple times pre 2.1 so basically impossible before patch to get into Hyjal.

Nihilum got 4 only phials in first kill: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ll-by-Nihilum-!

[stevenho]

A lot of guilds did it exactly that way - doesn't matter if my guild has been late or not.

It kinda does though.
By that time T5 was 2 tiers + filler raid (ZA) behind current content, and almost all loot from it was repalced by badge items. No one cared about it at that point.

[Nyel]

It kinda does though.
By that time T5 was 2 tiers + filler raid (ZA) behind current content, and almost all loot from it was repalced by badge items. No one cared about it at that point.

That's simply not true. The equipment was still very good, but not the main reason, I give you that. It was just a test to prove for guilds. TBC had another mentality than nowadays WoW.

[Lyrel8490]

Definitly not a "must" in my opinion. T4 content is fine by itself.

[stevenho]

That's simply not true. The equipment was still very good, but not the main reason, I give you that. It was just a test to prove for guilds. TBC had another mentality than nowadays WoW.

I raided everything in retail tbc, and at that point in time T5 was being pugged by trade groups in badge gear.
On my realm no one cared.

[ifrah]

Over the course of my active and not-so-active years of the game, not even once has there been any rush to content that does not drop relevant gear. Not even once. The moment people have what they need, whether it is MC, AQ40, SSC, BT, or whatever is your your favourite instance, they just don't care and therefore avoid them to whatever degree possible, and many people will reach that point well before the BiS-list is ticked. It's not a retail/<insert expansion here> thing to cut to the chase and just go for the relevant content of the given moment.
Now before you reply to this with guns blazing, read it again and understad I'm not stating everyone will follow this pattern, just a fairly big chunk of playerbase.

[shise]

I never said he lied, but neither did I. A lot of guilds did it exactly that way - doesn't matter if my guild has been late or not. Raiding in TBC was way slower than in later expansions.

I say many guilds because it's a simple fact as one could see back then by the number of guilds starting to progress in MH while they still haven't killed Kael'thas. You know, logged raiding progress back then was already a thing.

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This.

Since WoW began invalidating all previous content with every new content patch the longevity of the game incredibly suffered.

Yes, I simply don´t understand the purpose.

[Gorsameth]

Yes, I simply don´t understand the purpose.

Because a new or returning player wants to play the new thing everyone is talking about. Not the stuff from a year ago that no one else gives a shit about. That is why catchup gear exists and previous content is invalidated, because if someone sees Nyalotha and wants to come back to finally fight N'zoth you can't tell him "go do these other raids for 6 months and then we can talk about it".
He is going to quit again.

[T-34]

Yes, I simply don´t understand the purpose.

What did happen in BC?
1) If you weren't ahead of the curve with all the other pushers then you couldn't do current content.
2) More progressed guilds poached from lesser guilds = the lesser guilds were stuck in a shithole of not doing current content.
3) A new player was thoroughly screwed by this system and couldn't do the new content

And that is why Blizzard today "resests" the game to a much higher degree than before after each tier.

[shise]

What did happen in BC?
1) If you weren't ahead of the curve with all the other pushers then you couldn't do current content.
2) More progressed guilds poached from lesser guilds = the lesser guilds were stuck in a shithole of not doing current content.
3) A new player was thoroughly screwed by this system and couldn't do the new content

And that is why Blizzard today "resests" the game to a much higher degree than before after each tier.

That is completely wrong.

It was up to the guilds to do certain raids or push for progress. None ever stopped people from doing so, just like today with mythic raids vs just HC chill.

[Gorsameth]

That is completely wrong.

It was up to the guilds to do certain raids or push for progress. None ever stopped people from doing so, just like today with mythic raids vs just HC chill.

Guild progresses through SSC/TK > Guild beats the raids > Guild looks forward to progressing MH and BT > Better guilds poaches all the good players who have now finished their attunment because the better guild no longer runs SSC/TK to attune people > Guild no longer has enough people to do raid and needs to recruit > recruits are not attuned to MH/BT so back to SSC/TK > Other attuned people get annoyed guild can't do MH/BT yet and leave for guilds who can > Guild is stuck unable to progress.

As someone who played in a good guild in TBC, 'we' destroyed a ton of guilds who were looking to progress because their best players left to replenish our natural losses over time. We didn't go back to clear SSC/TK for a new recruit while progressing through the latter bosses in MH/BT. We just poached people who were already attuned.

This is why Blizzard has not done similar attunments since. Because its super toxic to the community.

[Askyl]

Guild progresses through SSC/TK > Guild beats the raids > Guild looks forward to progressing MH and BT > Better guilds poaches all the good players who have now finished their attunment because the better guild no longer runs SSC/TK to attune people > Guild no longer has enough people to do raid and needs to recruit > recruits are not attuned to MH/BT so back to SSC/TK > Other attuned people get annoyed guild can't do MH/BT yet and leave for guilds who can > Guild is stuck unable to progress.

As someone who played in a good guild in TBC, 'we' destroyed a ton of guilds who were looking to progress because their best players left to replenish our natural losses over time. We didn't go back to clear SSC/TK for a new recruit while progressing through the latter bosses in MH/BT. We just poached people who were already attuned.

This is why Blizzard has not done similar attunments since. Because its super toxic to the community.

Yepp. It was and is amazing. But its a bad thing for the community.

Having it server wide or account Wide would be cool. Doing it once.