Gearing alts feel so stupid now

[JessicaJones]

If it took you an entire cap to get 1.6mmr its your l2p issue

I am 1800 on my alt with 195 ilvl but its extremely hard to get gear because I go against 226 ppl and losing gives no conquest

if you are 1800 mmr on your 195 ilevel alt, then gearing for u isnt an issue at all, idk why you're complaining, if you do 10-15 wins a day for a week, you'll be able to buy and upgrade 5-6 pieces to 220?

[kamuimac]

And here we have it: Another time the wow community doesn't know what it wants.
The whole of 2020 forums raged about pvp scaling like it's the worst feature ever.
(Don't ask me btw, I don't know shit about pvp, just pointing it out)

2 completly different groups raging

1 group wants real pvp with pvp templates - those are skilled pvp players

2 group - want to collect gear to 1 shot and pwn noobs - those people have 0 pvp skills only depend on meta class and gear to win .

SL is expansion catered towards 2nd group . thats why pvp is dead.

[Dundebuns]

boho. another child wanting everything for free.

An fair and even playing field is not a big ask. I don't even want it for me because I will always get a decenet amount of gear before stepping into PvP (usually don't start on a healer until I'm 180, or 185 for a DPS). I just don't want my team to get globaled in every fight making the entire match pointless.

[kranur]

This has always been the case in WoW pvp. It was even worse when resilience or pvp power existed because even your pve gear was not enough to keep you alive long enough for you to do something.

And this was also a problem back then ... you try to do a bg and win and half your team are freshly dinged characters looking for free gear.

[JessicaJones]

how can a discussion about a real issue be so fucking stupid? scaling was bad and gearing is currently very easy.

the problem with scaling was that blizzard never told us how it worked, and I would guess didn't really understand how it worked themselves. A character doing no damage but taking no damage because they're wearing gear from 2 tiers ago is stupid. It just creates a situation in which people will abuse the scaling. If scaling had been explained and had limitations placed upon it, the system would have been much better. But when you're seeing numbers larger than someone's Health Pool pop up on your screen and their hp drops by 20%, that doesn't really make sense does it?

The gear issue right now with people being 1 shot by people 20 item levels higher than them is annoying, but it sorts itself out over a few weeks as people gear up and the meta becomes less bursty. As people get more HP in later tiers this will decrease even more. Ofc some changes need to be made regarding balancing but its always the same.

[Soimu]

Gearing in pvp is stupid atm. I have 213ilvl and in order to upgrade my gear i need 1800 rating. The problem is no one invites me with 213 gear above 1700 so i am always stuck at 1600/1700 rating. And i don't want to do pve to get gear ...

[C20]

The difference between honor gear and conquest gear was never this big in any expansion, because there was no gear upgrades 7 times per gear, it was honor gear then 1 tier above it is conquest gear thats it

I actually hate this gearing system. As someone who doesn't bother with rated PVP, if I happen to go up against someone who does, it feels like I have absolutely no chance. I know 'unrated BG's don't matter', but playing the non-competitive side because it's slower paced and has less chance of being pitched against a full group of 220+. And yet, it's become commonplace.

I would honestly like to see a system for unrated BG's, where gear is automatically scaled up to a certain level, such as 183, unless you're above it, and scaled down to a maximum, such as 200, if you're above it. This would ensure that everyone has a chance to compete and winning an individual encounter with an enemy, even those recently hitting 60, while nerfing the people going into modes they've far exceeded just to melt people who won't be able to achieve gear higher than the mode they're playing in.

Right now, we have this place where those that decided to max out their honor gear just get stomped by people who've got no business being there, except to be able to upgrade their gear further to stomp those same people even harder.

I'd also like to see a PVP dampening effect, reducing in effect as you get gear. Say start it at 15% for people at 151 or below, and make it have 5% effect at 197 or above. a 183 (scaled) player deals 15% more damage and healing and takes 15% less damage, while a 197 only takes 5% less damage, with no boost to healing or damage. Versatility doesn't do enough towards dampening the burst and it is about time Blizz start looking at alternatives.

Automatically upgrading the item level of new gear purchases by 1 tier every 2 weeks once the raids open would help. After a few months, you can purchase a full set of 197, maybe with a slightly increased cost, perhaps even 5K honor per piece, rather than having to spend ages getting geared before you can even compete.

[Enclave]

if you are 1800 mmr on your 195 ilevel alt, then gearing for u isnt an issue at all, idk why you're complaining, if you do 10-15 wins a day for a week, you'll be able to buy and upgrade 5-6 pieces to 220?

yes but to get that conquest to upgrade the items i need to win games vs 220 players, do you not understand the issue here?
to get 220 gear i need to win 220 players with 195 ilvl?

[dwightyo39]

Oh, I'll play this forum hyperbole game too.

I had full 226+ ilvl gear 10 min after hitting level 60. L2p.

[ryjkur]

Bring some system that does less damage to lesser geared players and problem is solved, some PvP scaling like they do in dungeons while leveling.

[Steelangel]

And? This is the way it's always been if PVP gear matters.

You can have one of two systems:

#1: PVP gearing doesnt matter a lot. The difference between highly geared players and new PVPers is only maybe 5-10%. WE had this a few expansions ago on the theory that PVP should be about skill. A lot of people didnt like it because they enjoyed PVP but also wanted SOME reward.

#2: PVP gear matters and the difference between a highly geared player and a new one is huge. The new player will get stomped for a bit until they get some gear. This is what we have now.

I like both systems up to a point. In option 1, skill shines but you don't feel progression in gear. Highly skilled people get better MMR.

In option 2, gear is super important and skill less so. Highly geared people get better (and keep better) MMR.

In option 2 there needs to be some way to differentiate different "weight classes" in rated play, though because gear matters a lot. I've been helping out friends (and consequently tanking my rating) in RBGs lately and I've seen a lot of groups sitting at ~1500 MMR that have gear far in excess of what I'd expect. A lot of these guys are carry groups too; 9 folks at 1500ish rating and 1 at 0.

If you got in early, you got 220 gear. If you came late, now you fight against people in 220 gear.

[Zigrifid]

I love these types of QQ posts,people that dont spend so much time in one aspect of the game want to be on the same lvl as those that do ! lol !
Go play single player games then !
And no this isnt a troll post of flaming post, i literaly think that people like that should stop playing online games.

[Morssoe]

yes but to get that conquest to upgrade the items i need to win games vs 220 players, do you not understand the issue here?
to get 220 gear i need to win 220 players with 195 ilvl?

You should have played more on your other toons at start of expansion.

You can send suggestion to Blizzard to make changes to WoW so that there is no character progression, and you can play alts at full power anytime. To me that doesn't sound RPG game at all.

[Goron24]

An fair and even playing field is not a big ask. I don't even want it for me because I will always get a decenet amount of gear before stepping into PvP (usually don't start on a healer until I'm 180, or 185 for a DPS). I just don't want my team to get globaled in every fight making the entire match pointless.

Pretty much this. I think its more of an issue of how insane the gear scaling is in SL. Like the difference between 200 and 226 gear is literally 2x. If gear scaling were more linear you wouldn't have a single ret paladin able to global 5 people and take 8 to kill.

But I love the argument of people who are like "omg you just want free gear n0000bs"... When we're literally asking for PVP to be in general harder. Because you don't have such a gear disparity pvp is an actual fight not a stat check.

[Argorwal]

2 completly different groups raging

1 group wants real pvp with pvp templates - those are skilled pvp players

2 group - want to collect gear to 1 shot and pwn noobs - those people have 0 pvp skills only depend on meta class and gear to win .

SL is expansion catered towards 2nd group . thats why pvp is dead.

Legion was the perfect expansion for group type 1.

And PvP participation tanked hard.

This is an MMO not a shooter.

[h8ryan]

The only thing that really sucks about this system is the fact that doing 2v2 only awards you 25 conquest.

When was it, Cata? that you could do 5 games and cap your conquest for the week?

Now if we went by that logic the games should award 100 conquest per win so it doesn't feel so depressing to see a 7k conquest cap. The only problem is that as soon as we made getting conquest gear this easy the people that are still doing M+2s and Normal raid would cry about welfare epics.

I like the gearing system, I like conquest and upgrading gear, but new characters should get a boost to their earned conquest up until the current weeks cap so they can catch up faster.

[clevin]

...have such a gear disparity pvp is an actual fight not a stat check.

See my post above. If there's no advantage to better gear, some percentage of people will not play past getting a title etc. I mean look at the complaints about the poor drop rate in raid loot - sure, people like to raid, but they eventually start questioning why they continue to do it if they don't get rewards.

What they could fix is the catchup rate. It's easy to get to 197 or so in PVP gear. Getting from there to 22x is way too hard and slow. But that's a balance - if you can move from 197 to 220 in a week, you have the same issue - there are no further rewards. If you can't ever get there unless you started at the beginning of the season it's too frustrating.

Finally, on t he 'people who've played from the start have an advantage!!' - yeah, so? That's the nature of an RPG. If you've put in more time and effort to gear, then why shouldn't you have become more powerful? It's the same mechanic as levels, etc... the longer you play and (to a degree) the more challenges you overcome, the more powerful your character becomes.

[jazen]

Not sure why those more skilled players care about the less skilled ones having the gear, as supposedly it's about skill. Give titles and cosmetic rewards to higher ratings, rather than deny better gear to those without the time/skill. Some disparity is required of course, but the massive difference is off putting.

[Necromantic]

Legion was the perfect expansion for group type 1.

And PvP participation tanked hard.

This is an MMO not a shooter.

I believe it would have bounced back had they kept it that way permanently.

People were upset because they didn't want their true skills out be revealed. They were happy when it was hidden behind gear compensation.

Why do you think things like twinking literally stopped? How embarrassing was it for a guy who used to 1-shot noobs to being toyed with by noobs?

[Varaben]

The only thing that really sucks about this system is the fact that doing 2v2 only awards you 25 conquest.

When was it, Cata? that you could do 5 games and cap your conquest for the week?

Now if we went by that logic the games should award 100 conquest per win so it doesn't feel so depressing to see a 7k conquest cap. The only problem is that as soon as we made getting conquest gear this easy the people that are still doing M+2s and Normal raid would cry about welfare epics.

I like the gearing system, I like conquest and upgrading gear, but new characters should get a boost to their earned conquest up until the current weeks cap so they can catch up faster.

I agree the conquest per win definitely needs to be upped at least to 50. Right now you have to win what 7000/25 to cap? 280?? If you are 50/50 win /loss you have to play 560 2v2s?? That said, there are other ways to get conquest like quests, BGs, rated BGs, skirms (once per day). So IMO if you're doing those dailies and quests, you do end up catching up, assuming you do some games per week in rated. Which you have to do ANYWAY to unlock vault gear right?