Bipartisanship dead

[PosPosPos]

I assure you that my statement is based on truthfulness and honesty, nothing about it was intended to troll. There is a complete lack of understanding from the Democratic Party or it's voters as to what ails Republican Voters. One half of the nation keeps trying to ruin the livelihoods and morals of the other half.

There is a certain irony in the mention of concern trolling though, to me it about summarizes the activities of the Democratic Party over the past two decades.

And yet you refuse to address how your replies contradict each other. If it's plainly a lie, it doesn't matter how much you repeat it or assure others it isn't a lie, until you prove it.

[Araevin]

Are Democrats pretending they don't equally hate Trumpublicans? Why would they even pretend, I am pretty sure they have a large number of reasons for that sentiment to be justified. From the people I've talked to, friendships and even families have been split over the political situation in the past few years and it really was just a decade (or really, the entire existence of the US when it comes to racial issues) of grievances coming to an inevitably conclusion. Both sides hate each other. The Democrats can at most argue they have a much better reason to do so.

[PosPosPos]

Are Democrats pretending they don't equally hate Trumpublicans? Why would they even pretend, I am pretty sure they have a large number of reasons for that sentiment to be justified. From the people I've talked to, friendships and even families have been split over the political situation in the past few years and it really was just a decade (or really, the entire existence of the US when it comes to racial issues) of grievances coming to an inevitably conclusion. Both sides hate each other. The Democrats can at most argue they have good reason to do so.

...can you name anyone specifically or is this just a strawman you made up on the spot to throw shade for the sake of it?

[Araevin]

...can you name anyone specifically or is this just a strawman you made up on the spot to throw shade for the sake of it?

I mean the vitriol in your posts about Republicans over the years probably points you as one such person but no, I won't name friends of mine in an internet forum. Are you really claiming that you have no hate for Trump voters?

[PosPosPos]

I mean the vitriol in your posts about Republicans over the years probably points you as one such person but no, I won't name friends of mine in an internet forum. Are you really claiming that you have no hate for Trump voters?

When did I claim I didn't hate Trump supporters? Again, please name someone specific or quote the offending post.

[Araevin]

When did I claim I didn't hate Trump supporters? Again, please name someone specific or quote the offending post.

So you do hate them? Because I really don't see what the strawman you are accusing me here is. Bipartisanship being long dead and both sides hating each other does not really seem to be an unpopular opinion so I am trying to understand why you are here asking me to source personal anecdotes and interactions . . .

[PosPosPos]

So you do hate them? Because I really don't see what the strawman you are accusing me here is. Bipartisanship being long dead and both sides hating each other does not really seem to be an unpopular opinion so I am trying to understand why you are here asking me to source personal anecdotes and interactions . . .

But you are claiming that there are democrats here who are pretending they don't hate Trump supporters. I am asking you prove your claims. You can't prove your claims, and therefore it's a strawman you created just to have something to throw shit at others over...

Again, I invite you to prove that there are democrats who are claiming they don't hate Trump supporters. Either put up the evidence, or shut up and accept the loss.

[Mihalik]

If there was a vote tomorrow in the Senate asking whether the sky is blue or not and Democrats would vote yes, the GOP would vote no a 50 to 49 line, while Manchin would try to, filibuster the vote from within the DNC and Mitt Romney would pretend to be concerned about the vote before voting with the GOP.

[postman1782]

Aren't the democrats in control? Why do they need the Republicans to approve anything?

Because you can't do everything with only 50 votes. Unless they get rid of the filibuster, and that isn't going to happen. Not with Sinema and Manchin wanting to keep it for some ignorant reason.

[PosPosPos]

"The Republicans aren't allowing us to push through our bills!" (which at this point is completely irrelevant, because the Democrats control the government).

So you are claiming that the democrats have the supermajority to push through anything they want? Pretty sure that speaks to your sheer ignorance of how American government works.

Not sure why you're shilling for the Democratic Party either, they never once did anything for progressives such as you except boycotting all your efforts and grass-root organizations.

If you don't want to address your contradictory points, you can just say so, instead of deflecting to the unrelated stances of someone who's pointing out your points are contradictory.

Whether I am a shill or not has nothing to do with your wrongheaded views.

[postman1782]

I can't imagine that the Democratic Party wouldn't be able to use party hierarchy or internal politics to get rid of those two -if- they really wanted to get anything done.
A big if though.

- - - Updated - - -



I sometimes do hold contradictory views, because sometimes I don't have a 100% established opinion on a subject and I'm open to listen to others.
Holding or sometimes arguing contradictory points isn't the evil you assume it is.

Nope, they need them. Can't really get rid of them any way without pissing off their voters.

[minteK917]

My best advice would be for the Democratic Party and it's voters to do a lot of self-reflection as to why the other side does not want to cooperate with them. Half a nation does not suddenly think you're evil or villains for no reason. I also know I'm going to get a lot of responses to this 'controversial' statement, because the levels of incomprehension among americans (and even the europeans that grew up in the world image of an imperial-liberal USA) are rather extreme at the moment.

See the predictable replies below.

Your assessment is wrong. Depending on polls for example $15 minimum wage gets between 55-75% approval across all Americans. Congress does not actually represent people anymore, even on the democrat side. None of the millionaire or billionaire in congress fear for their life they represent corporative interest and thats about it. Hell research on legislation even go as far as reveal public approval on something is only ranked 8th as a factor, meaning there's 7 other shit more important for them before even thinking about their "constituent".

[PosPosPos]

I sometimes do hold contradictory views, because sometimes I don't have a 100% established opinion on a subject and I'm open to listen to others.
Holding or sometimes arguing contradictory points isn't the evil you assume it is.

It is when you damn an entity whether they do or don't. Doubly so when you deflect to non-sequiturs like "but you are a shill" instead of taking responsibility for your own words and views.

[minteK917]

Isn't that the inevitable result of a two party system? If two parties disagree on something it shouldn't be surprising they fight tooth and nail about it.

Imagine for a second you had three or more parties. If none of those gets more than 50% of the votes the biggest actually has to work together with one of the other two to even build a government. If y'all ever get rid of the electoral college *and winner takes all for senators etc it'll be very fun to see if Americans are capable of that. I hope to see it in my lifetime.

Yeah their dumb system came to bite them in the ass for sticking to an Archaic paper, our other western nations make it more sensible to get maximum representation without jumping into backward whoops winner takes all that make like 5 state count and fuck the rest. When our people are tired of this shit we can vote someone in with enough power to do what ever they can to move the country foward. Meanwhile Americans could elect a bunch of revolutionary winning by 15 million extra voters and still actually not wield any power to reform jack shit. Which is why 50 years later they are still in the stone age talking about abortion, gay wedding, etc.

[s_bushido]

Are Democrats pretending they don't equally hate Trumpublicans?

And yet, there are no provisions preventing Republican voters from accessing the governmental programs and assistance that get Democrats labeled as evil socialists. So while you may somehow still think this "both sides" horseshit is compelling, Mr Sock Account...it's not.

[Levelfive]

That hits the nail of the head. Politics in America, for a very long time now, has been all about doing whatever it takes to stay in power. Sometimes that means incidentally doing something good for the people because it helps your chances to stay in power, sometimes that means intentionally trying to sabotage the efforts of the other party trying to incidentally do something good because it helps them stay in power. Our politicians are little more than a divorced couple, and we're the children they sometimes buy a teddy bear for because they desperately need our devotion. Unfortunately in attempt to make us feel ire for the other parent, they keep slashing each others tires and now we can't go to school, to the grocery store, or go to doctors appointments. Our political structure is deeply flawed and it won't be getting better anytime soon.

Every Democrat voted for Trump's covid relief bill. Zero Republicans voted for Biden's. The analogy here is that one parent is consistently abusive, self-serving, and indifferent to the suffering they cause, and the other parent is trying to look out for the kids, and then people ask why the responsible parent can't do more to appease the abusive one. It's deranged.

[Araevin]

And yet, there are no provisions preventing Republican voters from accessing the governmental programs and assistance that get Democrats labeled as evil socialists. So while you may somehow still think this "both sides" horseshit is compelling, Mr Sock Account...it's not.

I honestly don't see the point in assigning blame in the death of bipartisanship. And sorry that I started posting in this site again after a hiatus, I know how people feel about it here with the massive number of sock accounts but my old account is no more.

What is the value on who killed bipartisanship? What do you gain by establishing that it was the Republicans? Ultimately it is dead and both sides hate each other. The question should really be what the path forward is.

Also I am sorry but what kind of stupidity is this in "there are no provisions preventing Republican voters from accessing the governmental programs and assistance that get Democrats labeled as evil socialists". In what functional democracy in the entire planet is that a feature???

[Belize]

you can't blame them.

But you should, since they created this monster.

Decades a GOP lies and fearmongering about how every non-Republican is out to get them and is evil, and then we're supposed to be surprised when that group that's being radicalized turns into Vanilla ISIS? Or feel bad for the ones that radicalized them?

Nah.

[PosPosPos]

Also I am sorry but what kind of stupidity is this in "there are no provisions preventing Republican voters from accessing the governmental programs and assistance that get Democrats labeled as evil socialists". In what functional democracy in the entire planet is that a feature???

It's called taking personal responsibility. If you are going to support the removal of "evil socialism", then you shouldn't benefit from it.

[downnola]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/u...hip-biden.html

Democratic voters, by voting for Democrats, are sending a clear message: work with Republicans.