[TV] WandaVision

[rhorle]

A new interview yesterday said they cut Darcy, Jimmy, and Monica finding the Darkhold and battling Scratchy (the rabbit), a demon , because of the time it was taking for CGI. But it doesn't seem like there was much else cut from the "finished" story. The same interview also said they originally wanted to release the first 3 episodes at launch which explains why they are slightly different.

A tenth episode likely came from an original plan to do 10 but not finding enough content/story to do it so it was trimmed to 9.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I guess White vision is gonna join AU Gamora/black widow getting a movie in the past in the "we want dramatic moments with tension but dont want to get rid of characters we can use to make more money" gang.

Can they at least give it a few films / let it breathe before they bring people back from the dead. Not literally the next film or tv show

Technically Vision died in Infinity War, meaning he remained dead for at least Endgame. Captain Marvel was also released following Infinity War, and Falcon and the Winter Soldier was meant to come before Wandavision. It wasn't quite the next film.

[RobertoCarlos]

Technically Vision died in Infinity War, meaning he remained dead for at least Endgame. Captain Marvel was also released following Infinity War, and Falcon and the Winter Soldier was meant to come before Wandavision. It wasn't quite the next film.

Ah I mean yeah...."technically" you're right about vision but you can just as easily argue infinity war/end game should have been named part 1 and part 2 but Marvel marketing team is clearly smarter than warner brothers for example with Harry Potter deathly Hallows and named them as separate films even though they run off into each other.

When they were pumping out 3 films a year you might get the odd ant-man or captain marvel sneak in between but if they actually gave time before bringing characters back it would serve two functions 1)their sacifice / heroic moment would actually mean something as there was consequences where we didnt get to the see the character for a long time and 2) When they do finally return it would be a bigger/more epic moment. Especially if done well and they keep it secret

[Endus]

That wasn't the point at all, I didn't say he didn't look at other peoples' actions. I said that the whole, "Strange knew that X wouldn't work, which is why they didn't do it." only really applies to things that he would do - or very broad strategic strokes, since he can't explain everything in detail to everyone else.

The point being that "Because Strange knew it wouldn't work." can't be an answer to EVERY action, because a lot of the Avengers wouldn't even have been around for him to tell, and of the ones that were around he wouldn't be willing to give them every detail or else "it wouldn't happen".

I really don't know where you're getting this.

Each future that Strange experienced was a full timeline. He was perfectly able to "explain everything in detail" to anyone else in those futures. Because they were actual possible futures. Anything Strange could have done in reality, he would've been able to do there, because they were nascent realities.

That scene wasn't Strange thinking the problem over with his big brain and the power of imagination, he was seeing literal future realities and how things played out in each. Any Avengers who weren't around but would show up in time would have been factored in, because they'd have existed in at least some of those futures as well.

He wouldn't have told them "oh, and this is a fake reality and I'm just here forecasting from the past", because that wouldn't have been true. He was actually there, and that was the only reality each of those Doctor Stranges would ever experience. "Our" Strange was observing how those changes affected the outcomes, but the Strange in each was the Strange of that future timeline, not an Astrally-projected puppet or something.

- - - Updated - - -

A new interview yesterday said they cut Darcy, Jimmy, and Monica finding the Darkhold and battling Scratchy (the rabbit), a demon , because of the time it was taking for CGI. But it doesn't seem like there was much else cut from the "finished" story. The same interview also said they originally wanted to release the first 3 episodes at launch which explains why they are slightly different.

A tenth episode likely came from an original plan to do 10 but not finding enough content/story to do it so it was trimmed to 9.

Well, that explains the forecasting from earlier episodes that hinted strongly at demonic factors at play, at least. It's not all in my head, they just had to cut it for production timelines.

- - - Updated - - -

Technically Vision died in Infinity War, meaning he remained dead for at least Endgame. Captain Marvel was also released following Infinity War, and Falcon and the Winter Soldier was meant to come before Wandavision. It wasn't quite the next film.

Also, White Vision isn't Vision.

Wanda's Vision unlocked memory access and broke down the software controls so that White Vision regained its free will. But it's not the same person as the original Vision, just like Wanda's Vision wasn't the same.

They're effectively three different characters. There's a chance White Vision will be shaped enough by those new/old memories that he'll become the old Vision again, maybe even picking up his romance with Wanda in the process, but that's going to be a process more akin to waking up from a coma with amnesia, and slowly piecing your life back together as those memories come back to you. Not a proper death. Gotta remember; Vision's a robot. Being powered off isn't really "death", since "death" means your state is unrecoverable. Being dismantled and re-assembled is more like a coma state or something than death proper.

[RobertoCarlos]

Also, White Vision isn't Vision.

Wanda's Vision unlocked memory access and broke down the software controls so that White Vision regained its free will. But it's not the same person as the original Vision, just like Wanda's Vision wasn't the same.

They're effectively three different characters. There's a chance White Vision will be shaped enough by those new/old memories that he'll become the old Vision again, maybe even picking up his romance with Wanda in the process, but that's going to be a process more akin to waking up from a coma with amnesia, and slowly piecing your life back together as those memories come back to you. Not a proper death. Gotta remember; Vision's a robot. Being powered off isn't really "death", since "death" means your state is unrecoverable. Being dismantled and re-assembled is more like a coma state or something than death proper.

Yeah and AU Gamora forgot she loves Quill so they can do their Ross and Rachel thing again.

Soooooo different!

[Skulltaker]

Yeah and AU Gamora forgot she loves Quill so they can do their Ross and Rachel thing again.

Soooooo different!

She didn't forget, she never loved him. Because she never met him, prior to Endgame.

[RobertoCarlos]

She didn't forget, she never loved him. Because she never met him, prior to Endgame.

yeah and just like Chris Pratt in his Jurassic Park films with bryce dallas howards character they get to reset the relationship and we can do boy chases girl while girl acts disinterested then slowly warms to him as she realises hes a good hearted man trying his best.

[Endus]

Yeah and AU Gamora forgot she loves Quill so they can do their Ross and Rachel thing again.

Soooooo different!

THAT one annoys me. Just so we're clear that I'm not gonna be supportive of every choice they make.

Gamora should've stayed dead. For the same reason Black Widow should. I really liked both characters, but there was a finality to their deaths that should've held true; bringing them back cheapens it. I really think they had no idea what to do with Quill if she died. To me, that's a massive opportunity; his mom died, and he ran, what does he do when his girlfriend dies?

I'm a little cheesed at Black Widow's death, but that's what makes that death good storytelling. If you kill a character whose story is over, you're just tying up loose ends. Killing a character the audience enjoys and whose story is far from complete, that heartbreak the audience feels makes that death meaningful. Glad Johannsen is getting a title film even if it's a prequel. Hope they don't cheapen things by finding a way to bring her back.

Vision, I'm fine with coming back. We've basically just had one origin story, one film with him as a secondary character/maguffin (Infinity War), and now Wandavision, which isn't even really him. Plus, like I said, "death" has a different meaning for technology.

[RobertoCarlos]

THAT one annoys me. Just so we're clear that I'm not gonna be supportive of every choice they make.

Gamora should've stayed dead. For the same reason Black Widow should. I really liked both characters, but their was a finality to their deaths that should've held true; bringing them back cheapens it. I really think they had no idea what to do with Quill if she died. To me, that's a massive opportunity; his mom died, and he ran, what does he do when his girlfriend dies?

I'm a little cheesed at Black Widow's death, but that's what makes that death good storytelling. If you kill a character whose story is over, you're just tying up loose ends. Killing a character the audience enjoys and whose story is far from complete, that heartbreak the audience feels makes that death meaningful. Glad Johannsen is getting a title film even if it's a prequel. Hope they don't cheapen things by finding a way to bring her back.

Vision, I'm fine with coming back. We've basically just had one origin story, one film with him as a secondary character/maguffin (Infinity War), and now Wandavision, which isn't even really him. Plus, like I said, "death" has a different meaning for technology.

Yeah agreed. Vision is like whatever because as you say hes a Robot so its not crazy to think his coding can be repaired.

But the soul stone sacifice work arounds is really annoying because the whole point of the soul stone was sacrifice something you love.

[Koriani]

I'm not sure I understand the argument with Agatha. She started off really interesting, and Kathryn Hahn freakin' killed the role. I really like the character and hope to see more of her in the future. However, morally grey? By the end she was extremely one-dimensional. All her character turned out to be was "power hungry person who will stoop to any means to get more, including killing puppies." That's not just villainous, it's kinda boring DC comics villainous. Though I think the character has immense POTENTIAL to be more than what we were given. Maybe being forced to be happy-go-lucky neighbor Agnes for a while will give her some extra depth. I gotta admit, I didn't like that resolution for her. If anyone should've been forced to be a puppet for a while, it was Wanda. Yeah yeah, she didn't mean to do what she did and realized it was wrong to force that kind of thing on anyone for any reason, but that lesson was unlearned in 5 minutes when she willingly inflicted it on Agatha.

I'm gonna find myself a "Free Agatha" T-shirt now.

I'm MOST Confused by -

Who is Agatha nosy neighbor to now?

There's no house built where Wanda's house was. Wanda is gone. Hex is gone.

So Agatha is just in some house with no neighbor on one side - stuck being a "tv nosy neighbor" trope to regular people now?

Way to pass on the buck there, Scarlet Witch. Punish some more mortals why don't you... LOL. Why does she think any of those regular people she's been keeping from their lives want that character in their town either?

Just..off IMO as a punishment. And made less sense when the Hex dropped entire and the old town returned.

[Jotaux]

I'm MOST Confused by -

Who is Agatha nosy neighbor to now?

There's no house built where Wanda's house was. Wanda is gone. Hex is gone.

So Agatha is just in some house with no neighbor on one side - stuck being a "tv nosy neighbor" trope to regular people now?

Way to pass on the buck there, Scarlet Witch. Punish some more mortals why don't you... LOL. Why does she think any of those regular people she's been keeping from their lives want that character in their town either?

Just..off IMO as a punishment. And made less sense when the Hex dropped entire and the old town returned.

Which house would she be in? The one she was squatting in was Ralph's. Does he get a wife out of this now?

[formerShandalay]

A new interview yesterday said they cut Darcy, Jimmy, and Monica finding the Darkhold and battling Scratchy (the rabbit), a demon , because of the time it was taking for CGI. But it doesn't seem like there was much else cut from the "finished" story. The same interview also said they originally wanted to release the first 3 episodes at launch which explains why they are slightly different.

A tenth episode likely came from an original plan to do 10 but not finding enough content/story to do it so it was trimmed to 9.

Just a quick note, because I think it may be significant down the line, the scene would have involved Darcy, Monica, the twins and Ralph going to the basement getting the Darkhold. Jimmy wasn't inside the Hex at that point.

[ohwell]

After all the hype it's hard not to be a little disappointed but overall it was a solid ending.

I mean the director or producers not sure which had said prior to airing that most people would be.

[eschatological]

He wouldn't tell them too many specifics anyway, because of "if I tell you, it won't happen".

I think that applies to just that one timeline. I'm sure he saw millions of timelines where he did tell everyone what to do, and it failed. I'm sure a few of them he looked at all the timelines and did tell them what would need to happen, and it failed.

I don't think that precludes the idea that there could have been a timeline where he told everything and they succeeded (IE, that telling everyone is an automatic fail state), but that in this case, where telling Tony that he'd have to die would change the outcome. And that makes sense, because telling someone they have to die to save the universe could make them hesitate at the wrong moment. I'm sure if Strange told Peter - "Hey, you're gonna be dusted, it needs to happen for us to win," that wouldn't change the probability.

- - - Updated - - -

Just a quick note, because I think it may be significant down the line, the scene would have involved Darcy, Monica, the twins and Ralph going to the basement getting the Darkhold. Jimmy wasn't inside the Hex at that point.

It could have been after the action. After the Hex (and the twins) are gone. After all, Agatha's basement existed in reality, outside of the Hex, as did Scratchy. In fact, after the battle is the only time that makes sense, as Agatha literally summons the Darkhold during her fight with SW to read out of it.

[Ophenia]

Why didn't Dr. Strange just throw a portal around Thanos' arm to get the gauntlet off and out of his reach?

When ?
When they were fighting ? Thanos would have easily avoided the "trap", not like he had the Space Stone or whatever
When Tony and Spider Man were holding the gauntlet ? Well how do you even "fit" the portal around his arm without letting it free, or cutting also Spidey or Tony in half ? Not even considering Strange was also busy holding Thanos' right arm at the time.

I'm not denying most of the things that happen in Marvel movies could have been avoided if X did Y instead of just talking/doing nothing, but this one is definitely not an issue

[Uzkin]

Why is it that the anti-SJWs, who hate strong women, don't generally hate WandaVision that much?

These people certainly hate the latest Star Wars trilogy, the latest Terminator, Captain Marvel, Supergirl, Batwoman, etc.; Wanda ends up more powerful than the female leads of the aforementioned titles combined, yet she somehow (mostly) escapes the hate?

[Jayma]

Why is it that the anti-SJWs, who hate strong women, don't generally hate WandaVision that much?

These people certainly hate the latest Star Wars trilogy, the latest Terminator, Captain Marvel, Supergirl, Batwoman, etc.; Wanda ends up more powerful than the female leads of the aforementioned titles combined, yet she somehow (mostly) escapes the hate?

I think blaming the hate for certain characters solely on some sort of misogyny isn't completely fair.
Hate for a bad character/story being amplified because it involves a woman is probably more accurate.

Wonder Woman is incredibly powerful and doesn't get much hate as far as I can tell.
Hela, The ancient one are two more well received insanely strong characters in the MCU.

[Ophenia]

Why is it that the anti-SJWs, who hate strong women, don't generally hate WandaVision that much?

These people certainly hate the latest Star Wars trilogy, the latest Terminator, Captain Marvel, Supergirl, Batwoman, etc.; Wanda ends up more powerful than the female leads of the aforementioned titles combined, yet she somehow (mostly) escapes the hate?

Because *breaking news* what "anti SJW" hate is not "strong women", but more "badly written characters", may they be male or female.

Wanda is very good (in character development and the actress as well), hence why she avoids the "hate", but that's about as much as Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Lara Croft and probably another thousand of great female characters.
What "anti-SJW" hate with Rey is not the fact she's got a vagina. It's that her character sucks, and the actress doesn't help either with overall poor performances (IMO). She could be named Ronald, be a 2m-tall handsome muscular guy smoking cigars, he would be hated just as much.

I mean... People shat on Batman vs Superman, showcasing HENRI CAVILL AND BEN AFFLECK, while praising Wonder Woman (well, the first one). That should have told you something about your point of view.

Wanda is a good character so suddenly, no problem of misoginy. Maybe because there wasn't a problem with misoginy ever, especially not in the "geek" fanbase where a good 75% of iconic characters are women.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Literally every episode except the last 2 were a waste of time, and even saying the last two also weren't a waste of time is a stretch since it was nothing but Dragon Ball Z type fights that lacked the awesomeness of actually being real DBZ fights.

[formerShandalay]

<snip>


It could have been after the action. After the Hex (and the twins) are gone. After all, Agatha's basement existed in reality, outside of the Hex, as did Scratchy. In fact, after the battle is the only time that makes sense, as Agatha literally summons the Darkhold during her fight with SW to read out of it.

That's right, though in the interview the director said they decided to go for the book because the kids had seen it in the basement when they were being held hostage there, so that's why they go to the basement, where they find the Darkhold. Then when they try to take it, the bunny hops onto the table, they try to pet it, then it hisses and transforms into a demon.
So that would have taken place during the fight before Agatha summons the Darkhold, which is while the Hex is still up.