1. #13341
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Crafting is cool and all, but like...where the fuck did the rest of the game go? I don't have 10x my current play hours each season to manage the currency and materials needed to RNGesus my way to Superman levels like the Mathils and the Steelmages of the world. I definitely enjoy watching them do that content in the meantime, but that's not a viable playstyle for me.
    Yeah, the time required to invest to farm like you used to keeps going up. I've given up ever hoping of being "rich", I'm sitting here at 20ex after just picking up a 20ex watchers (sold a wand for like 13ex which is most of it) and I'm feelin comfy and rich.

    Related on crafting, I feel like anything that's not harvest crafting is pretty much a waste nowadays. Sure I can just throw essences at an item, but farming to keep that up isn't reasonable, buying them is a pain, and the rolls are usually pretty garbage. I'm crafting a very specific hat traditionally (alteration spam for mods I want, regal for a good third, if not then start over), but even then I've frozen it and am just waiting for harvest so I can craft the specific mods I want on it. Like, I hate how harvest breaks up maps still, but I'm to the point where I'm spamming Zana missions with the atlas points for more maps just in the hops of getting harvest missions and I hate it. It's boring AF to repeat and I dislike focusing on a single mechanic in the game to the near exclusion of all others.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE, I still loathe Sirus and how he's constantly bugged. If you ever die, like I did by making a stupid mistake, you're rolling the dice on if you're gonna eat an off-screen DIE beam with literally no warning. Like, I ran to the edge of the arena but stayed outside the placed AoEs and was getting to a spot where I'd be able to enter at an angle SPECIFICIALLY TO AVOID JUMPING STRAIGHT INTO A DIE BEAM, and while I was still outside and starting to run around bam...DIE beam straight to the face with no warning. No message in text, no audio cue of "DIE" prompting me to hit my panic buttons and leap in a random direction to hope I'll avoid it. Just to the face.

    I was fine losing the 10% XP at 96, only 72% of the way into my level and I was factoring in that I might die once so it was acceptable. I'm not cool losing what is a few days worth of play for me to some absolute bullshit, and it just kills my motivation to log in and play.

    I don't mind dying if I know I fucked up, I can accept that I made a mistake and it's my fault. I don't mind dying to literally what the fuck, because I have no way to improving my play to counter it. I have no way of knowing if it was my mistake that killed me or something else. And that Sirus has been a buggy mess ever since he was first introduced infuriates me.

    It's not like my ancestral chieftan chieftan is weak, even. 8K HP, good defenses, 15M+ DPS easy, melts every boss damned quickly. I've got a few more upgrades, but homeboy may be my strongest (though not tankiest) character I've ever made.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    So it's not like they are forced to change it, because it obviously is working the way it is.
    That's a terrible reason to leave an awful user experience alone. Pretty much nobody I've ever interacted with actually likes trading, between spamming for currency for ages to hoping that one guy with that one item you want logs in for the first time in 5 days while you're online to the scammers left and right, it's kinda awful. Like, I genuinely prefer to interact with trade bots instead of people. Why? Because it's generally a much, much better experience.

  2. #13342
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's a terrible reason to leave an awful user experience alone. Pretty much nobody I've ever interacted with actually likes trading, between spamming for currency for ages to hoping that one guy with that one item you want logs in for the first time in 5 days while you're online to the scammers left and right, it's kinda awful. Like, I genuinely prefer to interact with trade bots instead of people. Why? Because it's generally a much, much better experience.
    You can always skip the first 15 listings and people will nearly always trade with you and scammers become extremely rare as well. It's not like people didn't learn how to handle the current trade system. If you want to save 2c for each orb you are buying, well then you have to whisper 10 people first before someone answers. If you want a fast trade you just scroll down a bit and you are done. It's really no big deal.

  3. #13343
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    You can always skip the first 15 listings and people will nearly always trade with you and scammers become extremely rare as well. It's not like people didn't learn how to handle the current trade system. If you want to save 2c for each orb you are buying, well then you have to whisper 10 people first before someone answers. If you want a fast trade you just scroll down a bit and you are done. It's really no big deal.
    I mean, especially for currency I absolutely do. I know the low-ballers ain't gonna respond, and I make sure if I'm buying currency that the person has enough for what I need and that I'm not like, buying 1 ex from a guy who has 200ex listed since he's not gonna trade for such a small amount. Even then it still takes far longer than I would like and generally pushes me to simply not trade currencies. I have half a mind to list my Ancient Orbs right now (think I've got around 10ex worth), but the absolute hellspam I've received in previous attempts (not underpricing, I know that gets spammed hard) makes me not want to bother. Yeah, DnD after I sell 'em but that's a garbage solution. I'll just gamble the things on a HH eventually.

  4. #13344
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean, especially for currency I absolutely do. I know the low-ballers ain't gonna respond, and I make sure if I'm buying currency that the person has enough for what I need and that I'm not like, buying 1 ex from a guy who has 200ex listed since he's not gonna trade for such a small amount. Even then it still takes far longer than I would like and generally pushes me to simply not trade currencies. I have half a mind to list my Ancient Orbs right now (think I've got around 10ex worth), but the absolute hellspam I've received in previous attempts (not underpricing, I know that gets spammed hard) makes me not want to bother. Yeah, DnD after I sell 'em but that's a garbage solution. I'll just gamble the things on a HH eventually.
    For your particular ancient orb problem - have you tried awakened poe trade? You can set your amount of ancient orbs and it filters all listings instantly with that amount you set. You can easily see the price of ancient orbs, how many they got and when it was listed etc. You skip the first few and know directly at what price you can safely sell them. I have sold hundreds of them this way, never getting spammed from underpricing, and still always sold them within the next hour and it takes only 5 seconds or so.

  5. #13345
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    For your particular ancient orb problem - have you tried awakened poe trade? You can set your amount of ancient orbs and it filters all listings instantly with that amount you set. You can easily see the price of ancient orbs, how many they got and when it was listed etc. You skip the first few and know directly at what price you can safely sell them. I have sold hundreds of them this way, never getting spammed from underpricing, and still always sold them within the next hour and it takes only 5 seconds or so.
    So it just automates searching on the trade site and puts it in game?

    Neat and it would save a bit of time, but that doesn't change anything for me since it's pulling all the same info I'm looking at on the trade site already. Might tinker around with it since it looks like it'll make pricing items a lot faster since it appears to automatically search all the psuedo mods (good enough for me).

  6. #13346
    So this league I've done my best ever, not only got to tier 16 maps, but got a chance to fight Sirus. Of course I failed on him. But now it sounds like I have to kill the 4 conquerors again just to get another shot at Sirus, and that's honestly pretty soul crushing.

    I'm not sure I can keep going. I was expecting a lot of cool stuff to start dropping once I got to high level maps, but I haven't seen anything worth writing home about yet. maybe I'm not juicing my maps enough, I don't know. I don't really have a good source of chisels, so there's not a whole lot I can do.

  7. #13347
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Sadly the last year feels like the trade system has been so bug riddled, lazily managed, and sabotaged by price fixers and intentional bad faith listings that just getting someone to message you about a sale at all seemed like a miracle and likewise, all streamers playing SSF modes and focusing on crafting as the only reliable way to progress as quickly as you can toss a million hours into it.

    Crafting is cool and all, but like...where the fuck did the rest of the game go? I don't have 10x my current play hours each season to manage the currency and materials needed to RNGesus my way to Superman levels like the Mathils and the Steelmages of the world. I definitely enjoy watching them do that content in the meantime, but that's not a viable playstyle for me.
    What. First, well streamers mostly play on trade league. There are couple HC ones, small amount on SSFSC but most are just trade.

    As for crafting its pretty simple, unless you have time and currency you just settle for less. It's really not hard to get to endgame while playing casually and doing minimal amount of trades.

    Also handling trading is skill itself. Some tips; start of league do chaos recipe or sell items for 1c, as time goes on 2c, 5c, 10c minimum.
    Pick something you like to do and be efficient at it, make currency, upgrade build. Update filter, stop picking up garbo like splinters.

    I usually just play couple hours, then do trading sessions. Don't like to trade without AH but its not that bothersome if you know how to approach it.

    Dont buy currency, SELL it. Like I never bought exalts when my chaos is overflowing, i simply sell chaos for exalts. And remember time = money. Better to sell chaos for bit cheaper than to spam people to buy exalts.

    Endgame crafting is basically spamming on TFT for trades. I did 150ex boots and oh god it took me entire day. So if you are not into that kind of experience, buy worse boots for 100ex.
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  8. #13348
    https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670

    RIP Harvest, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us, TFT.

  9. #13349
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670

    RIP Harvest, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us, TFT.
    These patch notes were the equivalent of entering a Harvest only to find Oshabi and you got a shit ton of damage mods on the map.

    This sentiment was summed up by a member of our design team who recently said "We don't want to take away the feeling of closing your eyes and Exalting an item, scared to see whether you ruined it or not."
    I've been howling in laughter at this segment for the past hour. I can't tell if Wilson is a godly troll or about as misguided as the 'do you not have phones?' D3 guy.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  10. #13350
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670

    RIP Harvest, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us, TFT.
    It's not TFT's fault. It's GGGs fault. They introduced Harvest again, knowing it WILL be traded, and provided no official means of trading it and protecting their players from getting scammed.

    Harvest crafting will still be in the game, just shit, and you will now be using TFT even more so than before. GGG just buffed the 1% while shitting on you all. You know why? Because now the rich will be able to exalt annul etc slam as they always did, and now instead of paying 50 ex for that fine 4xT1 hypothermia helmet that was nicely crafted with harvest, you will now pay a mirror and a 150 ex mirror fee for it. Have fun!

    I do not understand how people are poor in PoE.

    1. Have no gear to clear higher tier maps or currency to buy a zoom zoom build for atolls? Buy a 50c ed build you can afford literally while levelling and spam Valdo's Rest on T10, zero investment. 3-5 ex an hour in pure currency (ancient orbs) that you can markup heavily when doing large bulk.
    2. Have gear to red map? (nothing hard btw) Do T15 Dunes in New Vastir with legion passives. Your only investment is a rusted legion scarab (1.5c or less) and 6c legion map mod from zana. 5+ ex an hour, but requires selling some shit like incubs, scarbs or emblems afterwards.
    3. Not a boomer that can't use Discord? Literally farm t16 atolls for zana harvest and natural harvest in haewark hamlet.



    That's about 8 hours of spamming Atolls... 8 hours of low effort, low difficulty brainless farming funds a build that will satisfy the needs of the vast majority of players.
    Last edited by mauserr; 2021-03-11 at 02:16 AM.

  11. #13351
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670

    RIP Harvest, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us, TFT.
    Blaming TFT for this is silly. They admit they don't want TFT to be needed so their steps to make it so it isn't is to... Do nothing to address it. They could have made it so you could do like beasts, they didn't want to. TFT was the logical step for something like harvest to go. What they have done here to break harvest does nothing to make it so TFT isn't needed though. For all of the crafts that people will still want be that fracture, reforge, doesn't use sextants, or the plethora of other crafts people will still want you still need TFT. The fact is they don't want deterministic crafting in their game, they said as much in this manifesto.

  12. #13352
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    So just like beast crafting harvest is gutted. Fuck the people trying to make gear them selfs and avoid trading right?

    Don’t know why I’ve bothered trying to get my gear my self when they obviously just want you to buy good stuff off the people who are rolling in mats you’ll never see.

  13. #13353
    Kinda depressing to read posts like that, makes me really wonder what the devs are thinking and how little they know about their own game.

    Using currency items like Exalted Orbs or Chaos Orbs on your gear is a powerful, risky and exciting way to improve it. But because these items work equally well on both low- and high-level equipment, it's generally considered best to save them until you're crafting your end-game gear. Many players would even argue that it's best to save them to trade for already-crafted items. In either case, using valuable currency items on your levelling gear is generally perceived to be non-optimal.
    No, burning 100's (or 1000's) of currency on an item to then lose everything to a bad annul is not 'exciting', its 'feels bad'. Having a great item and trying to make it better with a Vaul orb only to have it poof is not 'exciting', its 'fuck this game'.

    The whole fact that they acknowledge that people don't spend currency to craft but to buy already good items shows that. Most people do not enjoy the currency crafting system.

    We decided to do the latter. The good crafts would stay in the game as very rare outcomes. We didn't remove any crafting options, other than ones that related to the process of growing a garden as they became redundant with the garden-maintenance mechanic being removed.
    They have the numbers ffs, they know how much people play their game, how on earth can they be surprised still that 'lol just make it rare' isn't a balance mechanic when so so many maps are being run every single day.
    Players also expressed frustration that the most effective way to get the best items in Path of Exile was to join a discord channel and try to trade for these incredibly crucial crafts.
    Who could have predicted that if you make something super good 'rare' players would find ways to sell/trade them. They have never done that before... /s

    This sentiment was summed up by a member of our design team who recently said "We don't want to take away the feeling of closing your eyes and Exalting an item, scared to see whether you ruined it or not."
    Except we established in the opening that many/most don't close their eyes and pray, because it feels bad, and instead just save up for a bit more currency and buy the item that wanted in the first place.

    GGG just doesn't seem to understand the more hardcore segment of their player base and how much time and effort they spend on the game and how they interact with each other, which is worrying because they are supposed to have that data.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #13354


    I'm enjoying the community kinda blowing up over this.

  15. #13355
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    GGG just doesn't seem to understand the more hardcore segment of their player base and how much time and effort they spend on the game and how they interact with each other, which is worrying because they are supposed to have that data.
    They aren't any different from any other game dev. Most devs are disconnected from their community. Or, they're irrationally tied to the idea that something in their game is a "feature" that makes it awesome and they'll defend it to the ends of the earth with whatever bullshit reason they can come up with instead of just being honest. You never hear a game dev say "We do it because it pads our gameplay and gives us more time to think up new shit" or "we do it because marketing did some research and this increases our revenue."

    They always use bullshit instead of what the real reason is, because most people would rightfully roast the shit out of them if they did spill the real beans.

    The real version is, like any fucking casino system, they want you losing and bricking things so you spend more time trying to reacquire it and so the truly good, powerful shit remains rare, expensive, and inaccessible to most players so most of them never get to feel "done" or "complete"... because allowing players to get to that point in a live service game is bad for business apparently. They'd rather people just slowly burn out without feeling accomplished I guess.

  16. #13356
    Nobody has ever been able to be complete or done, harvest did not change that. However people been able to get to sensible power level with harvest crafting without playing 12h a day.

    Harvest also gave a lot power to niche builds making them viable, so build variety was really good.


    Now we will simply see resurgence of easy to make builds like:
    unique based builds - aurastacker, gem level scaling builds - minions, one item dependant builds - melee and so on.
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  17. #13357
    they need to buff rng crafting, like removing t 13 mods from ilvl 86 items.

    Harvest is retarded op, and rng crafting is awful, they should bring each closer to the center


    Also somebody said to soulbind an item that you use harvest on, that goes against POE trading philosophy, but I find it hard to disagree that'd be a good way to nerf harvest.

  18. #13358
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    they need to buff rng crafting, like removing t 13 mods from ilvl 86 items.

    Harvest is retarded op, and rng crafting is awful, they should bring each closer to the center
    Yeah we came to the same conclusion within my circle of poe players.

    Like making T8+ or worse tiers basically not possible on high ilvl items.
    Removing some exceptionally bad mods like stun and block recovery/ reduced attribute requirements.
    Weighting out some generally undesirable mods like max mana back to resonable levels (like its the only mod on boots with 22% chance while rest of them have ~11%)
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  19. #13359
    I think crafting has always been a weak point in PoE; it has either been too random or too expensive. It's randomness "hidden" under the guise of crafting, which I think is why I never liked it (despite otherwise enjoying crafting as a concept). More deterministic crafting is exactly what needs to happen if you ask me, otherwise it's just the same as random loot dropping from killing monsters; except it punishes you.
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  20. #13360
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    So much to think about when reading the manifesto, and it just makes me believe they're detached from reality when it comes to what most players want. I've only been playing for the past 5 seasons, and I've really only understood crafting for the last 2. I made mistakes in the first few seasons using exalts on gear, only to realize in the last 3 seasons how retarded I was. Knowing full well how the system works now, the amount of times you would seriously considering using an exalted orb is incredibly slim, and it's easily one of the worst crafting currencies available to us. Maybe this wasn't the case in the past, but the amount of times I've hit good mods when slamming an exalt orb are pretty small, and looking back now, the chances are incredibly stacked against you to get anything good.

    Explaining that it devalues the other currency in the game is kind of missing the point. I'd say that aside from exalted orbs, both annulment, chaos and divine orbs are still used in mass, along with other currencies in the game to actually craft something. TFT might be a problem, but the restrictions on how many crafts you can hold, plus the shear amount of time you have to wade through spam on that discord still makes it a better trading experience than trying to buy currency from other players on their official trade site. Simply put, I find plenty of reasons to use all of the currency they had listed as being devalued (aside from exalts).

    GGG from what I see usually over nerfs shit. Moving the harvest boss to a map is really good, but it still doesn't solve the issue that her drops are fucking awful lol. I would've taken a couple of the nerfs to harvest, but the the removal of 2/3 of the annulment crafts, the ability to augment on influenced items, and focused divines is way too much.

    You know what though? I would've taken all of the above gladly if they actually found some sort of middle ground at making the base crafting experience better. Whether that be how they approach high iLvL bases, the base currency in the game (and how it works), or the crafting bench as a whole.

    To me it feels like they missed the mark too. Fractured maps? Okay. Beast farming and abusing split beasts? That's okay too. Deterministic crafting from Harvest? Nerf that shit to the ground.

    At the end of the day who cares if people are making mirror tier items anyway? If some 'casual' player makes a couple of them over an entire league, is that really that big of a deal? A lot of people are disregarding how much time and currency you have to dump into harvest to get these good items anyway. You spend loads of time scouring a discord or farming harvest on your own maps and/or spending an excessive amount of currency actually buying the crafts from people. I made some really good gloves this league (not mirror tier, but like 90% of the way there), and they still cost me probably 60EX + 2 weeks into the season to make. That amount of currency alone puts it way out of reach of the majority of the player base anyways.

    People get godly items in a game that essentially resets every 3 months? Who cares. All this does for me and others in my friend group is remove us from crafting several items a league. Instead we're just going to sell all the specialized currency that drops and buy the items off the trade site like we use to do before harvest came out.

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