Stars Are Flirting With the Far Right

[Shalcker]

Jimmy Dore... the guy who started a campaign to primary the most progressive members of congress... is left?

Yes, infighting and purity-testing is fairly common left characteristic.

He basically sees AOC the same way you see him - grifter for power who refuses to actually fight on critical issues she campaigned on in Congress (healthcare, minimum wage, and so on).

What is the point of having progressives that say all the right words but then refuse to exercise their power when they can actually make a difference?

...sure, they'll claim that this time is different and it will not actually make a difference; obviously Jimmy disagrees.

[beanman12345]

Forced? Really? Was Jimmy forced to demand that every progressive in congress be primaried, then platform boogaloos?

"This thread is about me now, I hate Jimmy Dore, and I am offended that people equate me to liking Jimmy Dore when I use his talking points, and defend him. So offended!! Me!!!!"

[Felya]

Yes, infighting and purity-testing is fairly common left characteristic.

No, sorry... you simply don’t know what you are talking about...

He basically sees AOC the same way you see him - grifter for power who refuses to actually fight on critical issues she campaigned on in Congress (healthcare, minimum wage, and so on).

Really? Then why does he complain for platforming her and attempts to take credit for her success? I have not seen AOC make similar complaints... that seems personal...

What is the point of having progressives that say all the right words but then refuse to exercise their power when they can actually make a difference?

Ones ability to see? The people they listen to?

...sure, they'll claim that this time is different and it will not actually make a difference; obviously Jimmy disagrees.

Yeah, he is too busy platforming boogaloos instead... lulz?

[Shalcker]

Really? Then why does he complain for platforming her and attempts to take credit for her success?

Because he did platform her and seen her as potentially positive development.

Until it came to the point where their vote actually was critical and she folded.

I have not seen AOC make similar complaints... that seems personal...

What, you haven't seen AOC complain about #ForceTheVote? I guess you don't read her at all.

Ones ability to see? The people they listen to?

This is nonsense that has nothing to do with sentence you quoted.

Again, what is the point of having progressives that say all the right words but then refuse to exercise their power when they can actually make a difference? Do you think it is "to have people who listen to right ideas in Congress", regardless of wherever they actually act on them?

Wouldn't you agree that if you yourself seen someone that way that you would also agree that they should be primaried?

[PC2]

Do you actually have evidence of this claim or are you just pulling it out of your ass before arguing as if it's a given that everyone agrees with?

I only have the evidence in ~1% of the cases I've come across so I can't claim there is more until I get more evidence of it happening more frequently. The onus is on the person making a positive claim of guilt so if you're arguing for more then the burden is on your shoulders, not the other way around.

Ironically enough for a post that claims bad faith arguments almost never happen, rofl.

Are you claiming that my post was in bad faith? Why? Which part? If you think I have any bad faith position then simply state it and then I'd give you a reason for why I think it's right and why I think the opposing positions are wrong. If I didn't believe in one of my positions then I would not be so eager to attack the other competing positions!

[Elegiac]

I only have the evidence in ~1% of the cases I've come across so I can't claim there is more until I get more evidence of it happening more frequently.

That's not evidence, hun; those are anecdotes which are representative of exactly no one's experience besides yourself. You are the one claiming that '99% of people argue in good faith' - so pony up with some actual evidence or just admit you were pulling it out of your ass to buttress some inane point about why it's important to platform fascists for the sake of "openmindedness".

[Milchshake]

Why are you all falling for Milchshake's shitposting again and again and again?

Sorry, but we're reclaiming our revolution from Putin and Assad apologists.

Ya, those BEverly Hills mansions dont come cheap.

If this is one of your pet projects instead of actually helping those in need at this time. Then there is your problem.

Congratulations you found a biased opinion piece of someone I actually dislike, but forcing me to point out how much of another feckless and pointless thread this is. I get you want to cultivate a (BLUE) can do no evil mindset here. However, it's simple not even close to true, and you spending all your time vilifying those who want things like a living wage, Universal Healthcare, and is actually critical of democrats shows you care more about being part of a team then actual policy that can help people.

Thanks. My other projects included exposing the bad faith of Tulsi and her fanbois.

I've had a good year for project completion.

[Jettisawn]

Sorry, but we're reclaiming our revolution from Putin and Assad apologists.

Ya, those BEverly Hills mansions dont come cheap.




Thanks. My other projects included exposing the bad faith of Tulsi and her fanbois.

I've had a good year for project completion.

Let's not have us delude yourself into recognizing anything within the realm of reality. You do nothing but bad faith arguments, point in case this thread alone.

[PC2]

That's not evidence, hun; those are anecdotes which are representative of exactly no one's experience besides yourself. You are the one claiming that '99% of people argue in good faith' - so pony up with some actual evidence or just admit you were pulling it out of your ass to buttress some inane point about why it's important to platform fascists for the sake of "openmindedness".

Yes I was speaking anecdotally based on all the evidence I've gathered in life and how people's actions have been corroborated by their words 99% of the times. It's my default assumption. My life experiences has given me a high level trust in people as opposed to a 'paranoid' person who by definition experiences very high levels of distrust towards others and is suspicious by default. I feel sorry for you if your frame of mind fits into the latter category.

[Jettisawn]

Was socialism part of Jello’s mayoral or presidential campaigns? NYC punk is what ya’ll call neoliberal identity politics... because back then, you could pretend those identities didn’t exist.

- - - Updated - - -



Forced? Really? Was Jimmy forced to demand that every progressive in congress be primaried, then platform boogaloos?

Where do you see that I said he was forced to do anything?? You make no sense as per a lot of your responses.

[Endus]

It's pretty simple.

Don't take someone's self-identification as gospel.

Look at what they actually support and propose, and you'll see who they really are, rather than who they claim they are.

It's not hard. And people whining because they're lying about who they are and keep getting caught out, they're just lying assholes.

Liberal punks? Now I've seen everything. Or are you mistaking your favorite indie folk rock bands for punk bands?

Is this where you pretend that "liberal" only has one single political meaning?

Classical liberalism is the "capitalism can do no wrong, let business run free" ideology.
Modern liberalism is the push for human and civil rights and freedoms, regulating industry wherever necessary to protect those individual rights and freedoms.

Claiming that they're one and the same is essentially no different than the idiots who claim that Democrats are still the party of the KKK, today, because they used to be in the mid-19th Century. Worse, actually.

Punks easily fit into the modern liberalist spectrum. They're all about personal freedoms.

Yes I was speaking anecdotally based on all the evidence I've gathered in life and how people's actions have been corroborated by their words 99% of the times. It's my default assumption. My life experiences has given me a high level trust in people as opposed to a 'paranoid' person who by definition experiences very high levels of distrust towards others and is suspicious by default. I feel sorry for you if your frame of mind fits into the latter category.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". What you're describing here is bias and prejudice, not reasoned and evidence-based understanding.

[downnola]

Let's not have us delude yourself into recognizing anything within the realm of reality. You do nothing but bad faith arguments, point in case this thread alone.

A real example of bad faith is claiming you've spent the last few election years supporting and volunteering for Democrats when we all remember the fits you've thrown on this forum for the past year since Bernie lost the nomination. All of a sudden you show up after your last temper tantrum to tell everyone that you've given up on the Dems because they haven't satisfied you in the *checks notes* less than two months they've had with a filibuster vulnerable majority.

Nobody is buying any of that shit, just like nobody buys the conspiracy-filled, grayzone tankie shit that Dore is peddling.

[Glorious Leader]

I thought dirt bag left was the chapo boys and cumtown. Dore as far as I'm aware isn't aligned with them.

[Shadowferal]

Yes I was speaking anecdotally based on all the evidence I've gathered in life and how people's actions have been corroborated by their words 99% of the times. It's my default assumption. My life experiences has given me a high level trust in people as opposed to a 'paranoid' person who by definition experiences very high levels of distrust towards others and is suspicious by default. I feel sorry for you if your frame of mind fits into the latter category.

Oh please...your posts show how much of life you've experienced in that bubble you live in
How often have you been called a rotten person recently? Take that as a hint of the dubious value of your so-called experience.

[Milchshake]

You might want to check Jello for Mayor campaign... just sayin’...

Edit: Check that... check him running against Nader for Green Party in the 90s... that’s a better example...

Edit 2: Getting off on a tangent here... but, you might want to familiarize your self with American punk from NYC:

Guess what the name of the album means and the year it was released... he isn’t singing about robots in disguise...

He's obviously new to the scene. There's always been a shitty side to punk. No one was surprised when JOhnny Rotten or Johnny Ramone started wearing MAGA caps.


I can recall an occasion when I started flipping tables and kicking chairs when one of my favorite venues was going to host a Death in June show.

Nazi goths, fuck off!

[Jettisawn]

A real example of bad faith is claiming you've spent the last few election years supporting and volunteering for Democrats when we all remember the fits you've thrown on this forum for the past year since Bernie lost the nomination. All of a sudden you show up after your last temper tantrum to tell everyone that you've given up on the Dems because they haven't satisfied you in the *checks notes* less than two months they've had with a filibuster vulnerable majority.

Nobody is buying any of that shit, just like nobody buys the conspiracy-filled, grayzone tankie shit that Dore is peddling.

Thanks for proving my point. Keep putting me into your make believe boxes. So now I'm right wing extremist who watches the graise zone and peddles for Dore.

[Felya]

Where do you see that I said he was forced to do anything?? You make no sense as per a lot of your responses.

I am asking you if he was... lol... this is ridiculous...

but forcing me to point out how much of another feckless and pointless thread this is.

[PC2]

but forcing me to point out how much of another feckless and pointless thread this is.

Yea the weird part is I kind of agree with Milch in the sense he's saying don't go far left or far right, don't rock the boat, and stay the course but it's just so weird to constantly make all these threads when we're 1.5 years away from an election and there's no policy or political action that we're supposed to debate in here. Seems very strange.

[Shalcker]

It's pretty simple.

Don't take someone's self-identification as gospel.

Look at what they actually support and propose, and you'll see who they really are, rather than who they claim they are.

It's not hard. And people whining because they're lying about who they are and keep getting caught out, they're just lying assholes.

Isn't that exactly the Jimmy Dore argument regarding AOC though - extended to "what they are actually prepared to fight for"?

And without extension, is there anything that Jimmy Dore actually supported or proposed (outside of attacks on other personalities/outlets) that would make him not left-wing?

[PosPosPos]

Whew, did you also apply that to Biden ?

Oh? What does he claim to be, and how is it wrong in your opinion?

And is this an indirect admission that you are regressive based on your far-right leanings and stances, contrary to your claims to be progressive?