TK and SSC must be launch content

[Prag]

Yepp. It was and is amazing. But its a bad thing for the community.

Having it server wide or account Wide would be cool. Doing it once.

I think account wide is a great QOL improvement. I definitely don’t want them to get rid of them - every player should have to do it, at least once.

[Akka]

Yepp. It was and is amazing. But its a bad thing for the community.

Having it server wide or account Wide would be cool. Doing it once.

They should just allow a raid to zone in if 75 % + of people in it are actually attuned. It allows some leniency on the attunements without dropping them.

[RainBoi]

Guild progresses through SSC/TK > Guild beats the raids > Guild looks forward to progressing MH and BT > Better guilds poaches all the good players who have now finished their attunment because the better guild no longer runs SSC/TK to attune people > Guild no longer has enough people to do raid and needs to recruit > recruits are not attuned to MH/BT so back to SSC/TK > Other attuned people get annoyed guild can't do MH/BT yet and leave for guilds who can > Guild is stuck unable to progress.

As someone who played in a good guild in TBC, 'we' destroyed a ton of guilds who were looking to progress because their best players left to replenish our natural losses over time. We didn't go back to clear SSC/TK for a new recruit while progressing through the latter bosses in MH/BT. We just poached people who were already attuned.

This is why Blizzard has not done similar attunments since. Because its super toxic to the community.

There will be plently of chances for you to get attuned with alts or for newer players further down the line. People are still doing Classic MC GDKP runs to this very day. I dont see why this would change in TBC at all - There will be plently of pugs running Kara, Gruul, SSC and TK all the way till the end of Classic TBC.

Honestly attunements were scrapped because the game changed from "progressing your character throughout the expansion" and to "log in and play the current patch".

[Argorwal]

There will be plently of chances for you to get attuned with alts or for newer players further down the line. People are still doing Classic MC GDKP runs to this very day. I dont see why this would change in TBC at all - There will be plently of pugs running Kara, Gruul, SSC and TK all the way till the end of Classic TBC.

Honestly attunements were scrapped because the game changed from "progressing your character throughout the expansion" and to "log in and play the current patch".

Attunements were changed because there was a massive wall of guilds stuck at 5/6 and 3/4 that were giving up or guild hopping.

And after kael/vashj you had 4/5 MH and 6/9 BT as easier fights for better gear.

[probert]

With how many people singled out Kara as their best memory, I think it and Gruul can stand on its own.

Any reasonable guild should be able to pug Magtheridon ('click the box when its your turn') but it has the potentially of being a hilarious wipe fest for any PUG.

People forget how long it will take to get to 70, get at least to honored with factions, complete the attunement chain, farm mats for gear, and clear Kara / Gruul / Mag regularly to get enough gear to walk into SSC.

Yeah super sweaty guilds with no-life the game and have everything optimized (just like they did with naxx), but the other 80-90% of players will enjoy the ride and be ready for TK/SSC when it comes out.

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I think account wide is a great QOL improvement. I definitely don’t want them to get rid of them - every player should have to do it, at least once.

Problem with this, is that it kills the running of dungeons in the long term as you no longer need to. Ding 70, get carried by a guild through T4, never interact with the community.

Classic has people still running BRD / UBRS regularly to attune for Ony and MC and BWL. I don't want heroic 5 mans to die out in TBC because attunements get nerfed early.

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Guild progresses through SSC/TK > Guild beats the raids > Guild looks forward to progressing MH and BT > Better guilds poaches all the good players who have now finished their attunment because the better guild no longer runs SSC/TK to attune people > Guild no longer has enough people to do raid and needs to recruit > recruits are not attuned to MH/BT so back to SSC/TK > Other attuned people get annoyed guild can't do MH/BT yet and leave for guilds who can > Guild is stuck unable to progress.

As someone who played in a good guild in TBC, 'we' destroyed a ton of guilds who were looking to progress because their best players left to replenish our natural losses over time. We didn't go back to clear SSC/TK for a new recruit while progressing through the latter bosses in MH/BT. We just poached people who were already attuned.

This is why Blizzard has not done similar attunments since. Because its super toxic to the community.

I'm inclined to say that attunement to *start* raiding as a reward (e.g. Karazhan) was a great activity, and postive all around because it could be done individually for the most part (through 5 mans).

But Tier 5 needing to be cleared to get to Tier 6 definitely played out the way you said.

[Gorsameth]

Any reasonable guild should be able to pug Magtheridon ('click the box when its your turn') but it has the potentially of being a hilarious wipe fest for any PUG.

People forget how long it will take to get to 70, get at least to honored with factions, complete the attunement chain, farm mats for gear, and clear Kara / Gruul / Mag regularly to get enough gear to walk into SSC.

Yeah super sweaty guilds with no-life the game and have everything optimized (just like they did with naxx), but the other 80-90% of players will enjoy the ride and be ready for TK/SSC when it comes out.

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Problem with this, is that it kills the running of dungeons in the long term as you no longer need to. Ding 70, get carried by a guild through T4, never interact with the community.

Classic has people still running BRD / UBRS regularly to attune for Ony and MC and BWL. I don't want heroic 5 mans to die out in TBC because attunements get nerfed early.

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I'm inclined to say that attunement to *start* raiding as a reward (e.g. Karazhan) was a great activity, and postive all around because it could be done individually for the most part (through 5 mans).

But Tier 5 needing to be cleared to get to Tier 6 definitely played out the way you said.

If I remember right you didn't even actually need Kara attunment to get inside? So long as someone else opened the gate/door you were ok no?

[stevenho]

You remember wrong.

[munkeyinorbit]

Can you explain to me how precisely they did that, when you needed to kill both Kael and Vashj to get attuned to Hyjal?

It's simple he is lying. Or he's talking about when attunements were removed. Which makes sense. Why would you even do Kael or Vash when you could clear three quarters of the t6 raids? Those two were made pointless once attunements were removed.

[luciano]

Even with the worst-version of the BC attunements, there won't be much poaching.

Instead, there will be a supply of guilds selling attunement spots for reasonable prices. Reasonable prices because the attunement raids at that point will be much easier, so more casual guilds can offer the service as well.

Guilds in T6 will then require their applicants to get attuned on their own, using a service if need be. Smart guilds will pay that fee for their recruits.

[Askyl]

I think account wide is a great QOL improvement. I definitely don’t want them to get rid of them - every player should have to do it, at least once.

But that's exactly what account wide is, if you do it once you're attuned with all your characters. But I'd prefer server, so if you reroll on another server you gotta get through it.

[Prag]

But that's exactly what account wide is, if you do it once you're attuned with all your characters. But I'd prefer server, so if you reroll on another server you gotta get through it.

I think that’s a good point, and the point someone made about it killing 5-man group findings have swayed my opinion a bit.

I love 5-mans and probably wouldn’t want to negatively impact the ability to find a group.

[Heathy]

there probably will be a bottleneck on the amount of ppl who can pug t6 because of the attunements it would mean that a pug raid or multiple pug raids would have to kill vashj and kael which, probably isn't going to happen that frequently in the same way that there weren't many pug raids that managed to consistently kill viscidus. the same overall problem the lack of a singular cohesive guild will probably make it difficult beyond those alt raids that have discord signups and fill raids each week with roughly the same ppl (with a good raid leader this isn't that much different to a guild raid assuming it does end up being the same ppl not the same pug gearing up endless random ppl.). its going to be a while until you get ppl making alts and having those reach 70 and kara ready ie dungeon geared. it'll probably be a sufficient enough challenge for a single guild to get 25 or more ppl attuned to BT and hyjal, for a pug it would have to be a consistent pug. like an extended guild. with no guild chat.

I think t4 will get pugged a lot but i do think that vashj and kael will be hard blocks for pugs it'll severely limit the ease of just walking into t6. if t4 is about on par with bwl, t5 is on par with t3 and naxx, you can see the disparity on wowlogs for a comparison between the amount of pugs that cleared t2 and the amount of pugs that have killed bosses in naxx. pugging vashj and kael is going to be pretty much the same as trying to pug sapphrion. it might be doable just extremely unlikely.