valor for casual

[Osmeric]

If you're a casual and still playing I have no sympathy for you. You're an abused customer who refuses to leave. Just pull together the remaining shreds of your dignity and walk away from the game.

[ClassicPeon]

They guy who said that Blizzard wants everyone to delete their characters and they have to play boomies?
Go and look at two threads from last week about "toxicity" in m+, i'm sure you will be surprised what people blame instead of getting good.

Why do i feel like i have to teach people basic argumentation technique and how to display their sources?

Like literally. Give me some examples

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If you're a casual and still playing I have no sympathy for you. You're an abused customer who refuses to leave. Just pull together the remaining shreds of your dignity and walk away from the game.

I'm a casual player and i'm currently progressing through mythic castle nathria.

Casual us subjective

[schwarzkopf]

It's called a cross-sale.

Then why simultaneously pull the plug out from casual M+ runs ?

With one hand you are saying they are encouraging me to do M+ runs, and with the other hand making it almost impossible to do so.

[Logwyn]

They do not, and thats not how it works.

A casual is a different term for everyone, for you it seems to be someone that doesnt do higher content, which is not what a casual is.

You choose not to do the content, the content is there, the problem is your mentality towards it, you know you are gonna fail and your blame is the "time restriction" and instead of trying, you decided that its at fault and thats it.

Its not Blizzards fault you want to spend 8 hours online and do nothing productive with 0 incentive to get better at the game, you are not a casual, you are just literally playing the wrong game genre because thats not how WoW plays as a game.

So if we extend your argument higher level players need higher level gear so they can do their content. Yet the current content can be done with the gear they have now. So rather than get "better" at the game as you say they should be able to get gear that lets them not get better at the game?

[ClassicPeon]

Then why simultaneously pull the plug out from casual M+ runs ?

With one hand you are saying they are encouraging me to do M+ runs, and with the other hand making it almost impossible to do so.

Noone pulled the plug out from anything when to casual m+ and you have been argued against multiple times. You just choose to overhear it.

[slime]

This expac shows that Blizz is definitely moving away from gearing casuals beyond a point. If Torghast is the replacement for visions this expac, well you really don't need to look any further. Last Expac casuals had a way to get almost better than raid / high mythic+ key gear from running visions. With enough practice, casuals even got 5 masks down and were rewarded with literal mythic ilvl raiding gear (even better than with the right corruption).

This expac Torghast doesn't even drop any gear.

So WQs and lucky weeklys for casual gearing, and if you want to gear past that in SL - well you'll need to play one of the 3 games Blizz believes you have to. (mythic keys, raids, pvp).

The fact you need to have completed all the high level keys even just TO upgrade is hilarious. Like this is totally for people that already are geared and have no issues running content because they have people that run it with them.

Wait until some casuals say okay well lets see how bad this is and try pugging a +5 key. They might never sign in again.

[Rucati]

They do not care about casuals. Or more like they want to force you in e-sport content you should hate as a mmorpg player, like M+ or Arena. You need m+ to upgrade pve gear and arena to upgrade pvp gear.

Honest question, if you don't want to do m+, raids, or arena then what do you need gear for? You can clear layer 8 Torghast at 190 ilvl on every class, you can do world quests and the world boss without any gear on.

Gear only exists to help you complete your objectives, if your only objective is to farm transmog or do world quests then you don't need gear. If you're trying to raid mythic, do +15 keys, or get Gladiator then you need gear, which is why those activities all reward gear.

[erifwodahs]

Why do i feel like i have to teach people basic argumentation technique and how to display their sources?

Ok "Mr. Achktually" guy, my point was that people blame classes and meta and items and community and whatever else but themselves. There is no spec ingame which could not carry themselves through a +15 with decent gear. To get decent gear you only have to spam +12s and get 223 in vault. Why do I feel I have to teach people to understand tools of language to get the point?
Also the guy which I quoted literally said that blizz wants him to play boomie because he apparently manages to press wrong button on one of two mage specs which main damage comes by spamming one button and then the other button which shines. Surely playing boomkin would help.

[Glorious Leader]

Why do i feel like i have to teach people basic argumentation technique and how to display their sources?



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I'm a casual player and i'm currently progressing through mythic castle nathria.

Casual us subjective

You are by no means a casual player.

[FakePizza]

Casual here. Mains are 197 and 194. Don't care about valor. My only way to gear up atm is world bosses and bonus event. Not interested in raiding and M+. I have lvl 2 legendary on my Horde main. Not interested to go further at that price. I don't have any legendary on my Alliance main. Not interested to get one much. I only run Torghast for the emissary. I don't think is broken. I still have plenty to do and I have a blast.

You sound like you would be greatly entertained by drying paint on the walls

[Ilookfly]

Do people even know what casual means? Fuck u need end game gear for as someone who is not invested in the game and barely plays...?

[ellieg]

Do people even know what casual means? Fuck u need end game gear for as someone who is not invested in the game and barely plays...?

"Because I pay $15 a month like everyone else and you are being elitist" is usually what it boils down to

[schwarzkopf]

Noone pulled the plug out

Yes they did ... in 9.0.5 ... been there, said that - ignore reality if you feel that way inclined.

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Do people even know what casual means? Fuck u need end game gear for as someone who is not invested in the game and barely plays...?

We aren't talking about people who barely play, we are talking about casuals.

I know casuals that play 5 times as many hours per week as hard core raiders.

[Edward Wu]

Why is "casual" synonymous with not wanting to do any content with even a modicum of difficulty?

When did "casual" literally mean bad player? It shouldn't. I'm a casual and I raid and do M+ I just pug both. Who are you to define me as a bad player?

[kamuimac]

if you dont do any mm+, valor you gain with wq and some quest has any purpose ?

they are only to upgrade mm+ stuff right ? nothing to buy with them ?

yep nothing

raid gear doesnt upgrade
wq gear doesnt upgrade
covenant gear doesnt upgrade
callings gear doesnt upgrade
GV gear doesnt upgrade
World boss gear doesnt upgrade
previously earned gear from m+ doesnt upgrade

its basicly a complete shitshow like certain streamer would call it

but it fits erfecly with garbage design of whole os SL expansion .

[Ealyssa]

Valor points are only for casual players and alts.

Anyone denying it is delusional about their own skill level. Good players are allready full 226+ gear. It's really that simple.

[kamuimac]

This expac shows that Blizz is definitely moving away from gearing casuals beyond a point. If Torghast is the replacement for visions this expac, well you really don't need to look any further. Last Expac casuals had a way to get almost better than raid / high mythic+ key gear from running visions. With enough practice, casuals even got 5 masks down and were rewarded with literal mythic ilvl raiding gear (even better than with the right corruption).

This expac Torghast doesn't even drop any gear.

So WQs and lucky weeklys for casual gearing, and if you want to gear past that in SL - well you'll need to play one of the 3 games Blizz believes you have to. (mythic keys, raids, pvp).

The fact you need to have completed all the high level keys even just TO upgrade is hilarious. Like this is totally for people that already are geared and have no issues running content because they have people that run it with them.

Wait until some casuals say okay well lets see how bad this is and try pugging a +5 key. They might never sign in again.

this expansion shows that this game cannot function without casuals.

people can sugarcoat all they want but its complete disaster for blizz from all possible angles

by 9.1 they will loose like 90% of their active playerbase - hell they already lost close to 60% of active players - which has been confiremd by both realm pop and m+ completion statistics (which noticed 70 % drop compared to week 1 of m+ being open (from >3 mln to 1 mln weekly )

this is beyond disaster at this point for blizzard. even WoD was less of disaster for them because casuals at least had garrison to keep them engaged. now they have literaly nothing worth doing in wow.

this is achievement for Ion for sure - to be forever remembered as the one who launched the worst expansion in history of game. he will be fired short after 9.1 release once they realised that people who are gone are not coming back till at least 10.0. if they even come back .

i mean they didnt even put as simple thing as legacy buff for legion . i mean ... lol. really Ion ? you couldnt at least give casuals at least that ? jezus .

blizzard will have to bend over backwards in 10.0 to bring casuals who pay the bills into game after they spat in the face with SL launch and 9.0.5

[ClassicPeon]

Ok "Mr. Achktually" guy, my point was that people blame classes and meta and items and community and whatever else but themselves. There is no spec ingame which could not carry themselves through a +15 with decent gear. To get decent gear you only have to spam +12s and get 223 in vault. Why do I feel I have to teach people to understand tools of language to get the point?
Also the guy which I quoted literally said that blizz wants him to play boomie because he apparently manages to press wrong button on one of two mage specs which main damage comes by spamming one button and then the other button which shines. Surely playing boomkin would help.

The incentive for me to spend time learning dungeon mechanics and timings goes out then window when my grey log druid friend pulls almost 30k on first boss in mists by literally hitting 2 buttons

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You are by no means a casual player.

Define a casual player then

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Yes they did ... in 9.0.5 ... been there, said that - ignore reality if you feel that way inclined.

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We aren't talking about people who barely play, we are talking about casuals.

I know casuals that play 5 times as many hours per week as hard core raiders.

And as i said, you have been argued against repeadedly after that, a fact you keep ignoring and then popping up a few pages later like it didnt happen. Its your style to just ignore any arguments that you cant counter :P

[kamuimac]

The 9.0.5 Valor implementation is stopgap put in place to alleviate biggest problems now instead of 3 months from now when 9.1 comes.

In 9.1 they can add Justice/Valor vendor or some other upgradeable gear sources, but that will be Season 2 catch up systems.

the question is if there will be anyone left to farm it in 9.1

3 months is extremly fast - i suspect it will be august/septemeber patch

and SL will most likely be a 2 raid expansion - worse then WoD.

they cleary stopped caring and are focusing on 10.0 at this point as they cannot salvage SL . to many mistakes were done.

[Kaver]

Forget about casuals. Every aspect of SL is broken, but only hardcore endgame gets fixes. Casuals aren't needed in this game anymore.

1) Torghast isn't self-sustained content. It doesn't have reward structure. Same problem, as with Isle Expeditions. You can do it for legendary. But if you don't need legendary, then only option is - doing it just for the sake of doing it.
2) WQs are only needed for anima, but anima grind is just rep grind 2.0. And I wasn't doing rep grinds exactly because they were unrewarding. Anima grind is even worse. It's considered xpack-wide grind. And therefore it suffers from BFA's syndrome. I.e. you can't do it on alts. And doing it on main only is pointless.
3) Only option remaining - to level alts. But it's so called "unlimited" content, i.e. not time-gated. It causes burning out, if it's way too tedious. And it's tedious without flying.

Raiding and M+ is not hardcore at all... it just the core content of the game.