valor for casual

[FelPlague]

It’s pointless because you need to finish 15 in every dungeon in order to upgrade your gear. Doesn’t make any sense, since dungeons are hell now. This week is so over-tuned that it’s demotivating itself to do dungeons without meta spec. It’s like Blizzard wants us to delete all our characters and play balance druids. Because I just logged my 140 ilv warlock and he’s doing more damage than my geared mage, and my mage is 210. The answer would probably be to go fire, but what if mage has three specs not just one.

1. i hilariously doubt your 140 ilvl warlock is doing more damage then your 210 mage, in no fucking world is this true
2. it sounds like your comparing the damage of a level 55 and a 60, which does not work cause of scaling
3. if you are actually doing that much more damage, maybe you are just a horrible mage player and really good warlock, cause in no world is any spec weak enough that another spec 70 ilvl lower will out dps it...

[kaintk]

Why do you need the gear then? What a stupid question.

because you pay the same freaking subs money than the mythic raider and want to feel a progression of your character too ?

why is the gamed should be about only have to go in mythic raid and 15++++++++++++++++ key to feel that ?

its why the game is actually bad, devs think that only mythic thing are important in a mmo

[erifwodahs]

that is not how it works dude... you do a 10 you get a 10... literally do you even play the game?
the key does not deterioate, it only goes down if you do NO KEY. if you do nothing, your key drops, simple as that dude.

Key drops if you don't time it.
With current changes you get same key as you timed OR a -1 if you did not time it.
Prior changes it used to be a max key in the season -1.

[FelPlague]

Yes they did ... in 9.0.5 ... been there, said that - ignore reality if you feel that way inclined.

- - - Updated - - -



We aren't talking about people who barely play, we are talking about casuals.

I know casuals that play 5 times as many hours per week as hard core raiders.

i mean no, you are the one who does not know how the systems work... you think that your key degrades every week which is not true...

- - - Updated - - -

Key drops if you don't time it.
With current changes you get same key as you timed OR a -1 if you did not time it.
Prior changes it used to be a max key in the season -1.

so you do a 10 not in time
next week you do another 10 not in time
week after that you... do a 10 not in time...
you always get a 9 key, but you get 10 loot every time, you arnt suddenly getting 9 loot, then 8 loot, then 7 loot.

yes you get a 9 key, but you can easily level that to a 10, or just... join a group doing a 10.
cause to get the 10 in the first place you would have had to do an 11, so yeah you can do a 10 not on time for sure, as you already were.

- - - Updated - - -

there will be literaly f...ton of people like your friend. once those people realie that they cannot upgrade anything they will just quit game

because atm they literaly connot upgrade any PVE gear in this game exept for newly obtaned m+ pieces

and nobody is insane enough to farm base m+ gear at this point of patch .

they botched 9.0.5 completly . and it had such potential . its a crime what they did.

hahah so that was a fucking lie.
Drop a key for "de other side" even level 2, and you will instantly have a full group, EVERYONE is trying to farm the best trinket from there.

- - - Updated - - -

this is exacly why wow is dying and lost its right to call itself mmorpg.

gear is nothing more then a tool - you kill boss A to get gear X to be able to easier kill boss A+1 to get gear X +1

infinite loop in theory

wow broke it.

nobody normal is looking for chalenges in mmorpg. thats why vanilla was so popular because unlike other mmorpg it was easy . that was their recipe for success - make it easiest mmorpg on market

they lost it over the years and so they lost players.

people play mmorpg to have constant char progression . if they dont have it they stop playing. its really that simple

9.0.5 is not offering them that progression . it has nothing to offer to general wow playerbase

thats why it will crash and burn so hard.

wow has more constant progression then ever.
in vanilla when youcleared blackwing lair and got 0 loot you did not progress at all, you just wasted a few hours, ZERO PROGRESSION.

in live when you clear a raid you get your vault filled, you get anima, oh look, progression!

vanilla you didnt have M+ there was no "dungeon progression" outside of getting pre-raid geared.

[chiddie]

Why wouldn't they want to get better gear? Casual doesn't mean they don't do high level stuff, just means they don't do a lot of it.

I'd like to do 4 or 5 M+ a week, but generally only find people to do 0 or 1 a week.

That seems to be a class/role related issue more than an ilvl related issue. As casual healer I have no issues in doing all M+ I want.

[Lei]

In WotLK you could not get bis if you did not raid.

Guess who never managed to find the badge vendors.
I mean you obviously cheekily moved the bar with adding BiS into the math, but still.

[kamuimac]

wow has more constant progression then ever.
i

what wow has atm is less players then ever in history of this game (50% + sub drop in 3 months ) proven by realmpop and 70% drop in m+ participation ratio.

thats what this kind of design gives wow

lets see how many more they will loose in next 3 months.

[Argorwal]

Key drops if you don't time it.
With current changes you get same key as you timed OR a -1 if you did not time it.
Prior changes it used to be a max key in the season -1.

And in Legion and BFA is was highest key from the previous week -1.

So better than the last 4 years and arguable if better/worse than SL so far.

[angrys13]

Q. So how does a casual obtain high end gear?
A. Before 9.0.5 - by doing their M10 key each week and waiting for the vault each week.
A. After 9.0.5 - they can't.

As others have answered you, you don't. That's not the point of a casual. If you want high end gear, do high end content, and stop playing as a casual.

Nothing has changed for them pre or post patch, except now they can upgrade their low end gear like everyone else.

because you pay the same freaking subs money than the mythic raider and want to feel a progression of your character too ?

why is the gamed should be about only have to go in mythic raid and 15++++++++++++++++ key to feel that ?

its why the game is actually bad, devs think that only mythic thing are important in a mmo

some people pay to roleplay and pet battle. they don't need high end gear. the game has options, and if you don't want to participate in those options, you don't get the reward. it's pretty simple and i'm not sure why you are trying to justify why 15$ a month should net you full pvp/mythic+/mythic raiding gear.

[erifwodahs]

Guess who never managed to find the badge vendors.
I mean you obviously cheekily moved the bar with adding BiS into the math, but still.

I mean, dude, are you saying that getting those 2 emblems a day from random dungeon was a good way to get full gear at a current ilvl?
Sure, you did get epics. Epics comparable to WQ epics now.

[Wavebossa]

I might just be a old hand then. To me casual is time played not the level of skill of a player. I've met 2 hour a week glads that I consider casual.

I 100% believe you, which is why I said that the word is kinda meaningless.

For example. I barely play rocket league anymore but I am always at Champion 2-3 level in each season.
According to the ranking system, i'm better than 99.7% who play the game.

- But I dont get very serious when I play.
- I only play when i'm bored
- I don't even use voicecom, I or theorycraft strategies... I just find the game mechanically easy.

If you watched me play Rocket League, you would think I take a very casual approach to it, despite my skill level.
Its probably how you play wow, despite being Cutting Edge.

But if someone who is bronze in RL, or 1/10n in WoW calls himself casual, that person is not referring to us as being in the same boat with them at all.

If that makes any sense.

[Glorious Leader]

I mean, dude, are you saying that getting those 2 emblems a day from random dungeon was a good way to get full gear at a current ilvl?
Sure, you did get epics. Epics comparable to WQ epics now.

Here's the key difference. It was the same gear you got from raid.. it was actually in fact tier gear at one point.

[Simple Rick]

I 100% believe you, which is why I said that the word is kinda meaningless.

For example. I barely play rocket league anymore but I am always at Champion 2-3 level in each season.
According to the ranking system, i'm better than 99.7% who play the game.

- But I dont get very serious when I play.
- I only play when i'm bored
- I don't even use voicecom, I or theorycraft strategies... I just find the game mechanically easy.

If you watched me play Rocket League, you would think I take a very casual approach to it, despite my skill level.
Its probably how you play wow, despite being Cutting Edge.

But if someone who is bronze in RL, or 1/10n in WoW calls himself casual, that person is not referring to us as being in the same boat with them at all.

If that makes any sense.

I suppose it does it just seems a odd distinction to me to make. There isn't anything wrong with being casual or hardcore (well assuming its reasonable if its consumed your life there is clearly an issue). Just like there is nothing wrong with being good or bad at a game. I just find it weird they try to mask and mix the language.

It feels like they do so to add weight to their demands. It sounds bad saying " I am not very good at the game but I want rewards from content I don't do" compared to " I play the game casually and want better rewards".

It feels like they use it to try and add clout to what should be seen as rather outrageous demands. I can understand wanting more loot drops as SL has taken the game in a weird direction with that. It is an entirely different thing to simply ask for stronger loot.

[chiddie]

No, the issue is very clearly not that people don't get "everything just for logging in". The issue is that certain progression paths end very early with no additional power rewards to strive for, with many players being funneled into other paths (raiding and M+) in which they are simply not interested in.



Shadowlands world quests are content that is only available at max level. That's the definition of end-game content as far as I'm concerned.

What is end game content to you?



As you say, and well, should be rewarded based on difficulty AND time.

Of course a 2 minute shouldn't give the same/as much gear as a 40min M+. But 20+ 2 minute WQs, on the other hand, why not?

No one is saying that people doing WQs should get gear as fast someone doing harder content. The point is that a system like Valor could and arguably should cover the entire endgame content and reward all PvE content - much like MoP, where you could choose between raids, dungeons and scenarios to get your currency weekly cap, for instance.

Because the 20 min WQ is probably not difficult at all: it’s only a quest that lasts 20 minutes for “reasons”.

[Azerate]

If you're casual you dont need gear higher than the one you can get in sanctums. I have 3 alts I only do casual/world content with and they are all sitting at 180ish just fine.

Guess who never managed to find the badge vendors.
I mean you obviously cheekily moved the bar with adding BiS into the math, but still.

You could not get bis items for badges in Wrath. Only the 10man hc ones. And that took like literally 1 month for 1 item.

[ClassicPeon]

Burst is vital for extremely high keys, but the gear rewards stop increasing after +15, and you can time a 15 playing whatever the fuck you like. How you feel about your position on the meters is something different entirely, but nothing is practically stopping you from getting the best M+ rewards on any class/spec.

If you think your class is putting limitations on your ability to complete +15s, I'm afraid you're just not very good at your class.

Here's a link to the current 75th percentile rankings for +15 keys. There is a 3% difference between the best and worst performing DPS specs. Those differences become significantly larger at higher key levels, but at this level it's not your spec. It's you.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=15&dataset=75

Burst is vital for literally any key level unless you are doing keys below your skill level.

The fact that you wont use 5 minutes to read previous discussions means i cba to explain the rest of the discussion to you

[Bee76]

But i still believe they do not care about casual.

Well, from my point of view, complete SL is purely designed for casual players ? The player and his effort is nearly completly removed from gearing and char progression. You can do more stuff to fill your GV lottery, but 1 m+ oder 3 raidbosses are anough to get good gear overtime.

A player that do 1 +10 a week and is not doing anything more, can have 220 ilvl like a heroic raider. 1 of my alts is doing exactly this, doing some calling stuff, 1m+ per week and got 217 ilvl. timeeffort with those wq stuff: ~3 hours a week. Without that wq stuff it would be ~45 minutes per week.
this is really casual friendly.

And if you want to spend more time, you can grind anima for (my opinion: useless) cosmetics.

SL is really unfriendly to "hardcore-players", there is nearly nothing u can do to improve your charpower if you spend more time. You can do 10 m+ and 10 raidbosses a week as a pve player, thats it. And with bad luck you wont have better gear than a dude that plays 1 m+ a week.

[kamuimac]

If you're casual you dont need gear higher than the one you can get in sanctums. I have 3 alts I only do casual/world content with and they are all sitting at 180ish just fine.



You could not get bis items for badges in Wrath. Only the 10man hc ones. And that took like literally 1 month for 1 item.

you also dont need to play this game at all if its not rewarding

aparenly more then half of playerbase took exacly this approach already this expansion.

how many more till also take this approach of not playing wow in next months ? a lot more people .

because if people cannot progress in mmorpg they wont play such game.

this is exacly what happened to wildstar.

[erifwodahs]

Here's the key difference. It was the same gear you got from raid.. it was actually in fact tier gear at one point.

I mean from HC farms you would get 2 frosts and then old emblems - useless gear besides catch up, same as now. Getting 60 frost emblems took weeks (if you did ICC dungeons) or month if you did not. And that was not even top tier gear. You needed to raid to get upgrade tokens to get bis gear.
And we don't have tier sets now. And items are scaling so dungeon item = raid item, pick your dungeon to get same stats. While there are some unique raid drops here (trinkets only tbf) but you couldn't buy raid trinkets in WotLK either.
I guess, only casual advantage is that you could get relatively powerful gear over very long amount of time playing SOLO. Now you have to do a +10 to get it. Which you have to get a group for.

[chiddie]

i mean no, you are the one who does not know how the systems work... you think that your key degrades every week which is not true...

- - - Updated - - -



so you do a 10 not in time
next week you do another 10 not in time
week after that you... do a 10 not in time...
you always get a 9 key, but you get 10 loot every time, you arnt suddenly getting 9 loot, then 8 loot, then 7 loot.

yes you get a 9 key, but you can easily level that to a 10, or just... join a group doing a 10.
cause to get the 10 in the first place you would have had to do an 11, so yeah you can do a 10 not on time for sure, as you already were.

- - - Updated - - -



hahah so that was a fucking lie.
Drop a key for "de other side" even level 2, and you will instantly have a full group, EVERYONE is trying to farm the best trinket from there.

- - - Updated - - -



wow has more constant progression then ever.
in vanilla when youcleared blackwing lair and got 0 loot you did not progress at all, you just wasted a few hours, ZERO PROGRESSION.

in live when you clear a raid you get your vault filled, you get anima, oh look, progression!

vanilla you didnt have M+ there was no "dungeon progression" outside of getting pre-raid geared.

I agree with DoS trinket but is ONE specific item over how many, 18 slots?

No one in the 10+ bracket will farm +2 for specific gear in every slot, by the time they finish upgrading them another two seasons will pass.