Riot Games is officialy working on an MMO.

[Big Thanks]

Yeah its pretty dumb that they retconed/changed things like nerfing beings from demi-god/god status and shit only to add new ones and stupid shit like Seraphine. Why the fuck didn't they make her base skin more on the level of Sona then give her some idol skins?. At the very least she should have a style that looks like she came from Piltover.

Its like they got one team trying to make a cohesive universe then one just tossing out shit they think is cool.

qwerty, wtf.
World of Warcraft has Rock bands...more than one ingame.
Heck, i even watch them play ingame all the time (every Darkmoon Faire)

WoW is indredibly silly at times. Why cant LoL be.

[qwerty123456]

As opposed to paying hundreds of dollars in sub fees? hmmm

I have spent less on Wow subbing day one than I have in any f2p game I've played. Wow costs what less than 200 bucks a year?

qwerty, wtf.
World of Warcraft has Rock bands...more than one ingame.
Heck, i even watch them play ingame all the time (every Darkmoon Faire)

WoW is indredibly silly at times. Why cant LoL be.

The ETC fit the appearance of wow and wear armor from in game. Seraphine doesn't fit the already established lore look of Piltover nor the musical characters that already exist.

[Big Thanks]

The ETC fit the appearance of wow and wear armor from in game. Seraphine doesn't fit the already established lore look of Piltover nor the musical characters that already exist.

Dont forget Blightboar concert man i love it...for a chance of that sweet electric guitar

[Edge-]

I have spent less on Wow subbing day one than I have in any f2p game I've played. Wow costs what less than 200 bucks a year?

That's a personal choice though. I can't think of many, or really any, notable F2P games on PC/console that actually pressure players to spend anywhere near $200/year.

[qwerty123456]

That's a personal choice though. I can't think of many, or really any, notable F2P games on PC/console that actually pressure players to spend anywhere near $200/year.

It depends on what you mean by pressure. Is new content pressure? Are limited items pressure? Valorant had 100$ dragon skins. Genshin impact has 10-20$ battlepasses players "need" that run about a month long each. Hell even people who were doing totally f2p in the thread here ended up caving and buying the cheap version as well as the monthly primogems for 5 bucks. That's 15 bucks a month bare minimum 25 if you do the bonus battlepass thing.

Gw2 constantly has sales on shit and much needed things like the material vault as well as loot boxes. STO has 30-60-200$ ship packs released regularly as well as loot boxes and other shit. Fortnite has limited time shit and battlepasses. Warframe has the 100+ dollar prime packs that release several times a year. And so on and so on.

The fact of the matter is that F2P games are only able to exist because people spend more then they do when a game is a sub game.

[Edge-]

It depends on what you mean by pressure. Is new content pressure? Are limited items pressure? Hell Valorant had 100$ dragon skins. Genshin impact has 10-20$ battlepasses players "need" that run about a month long each. Hell even people who were doing totally f2p in the thread here ended up caving and buying the cheap version as well as the monthly primogems for 5 bucks. That's 15 bucks a month bare minimum 25 if you do the bonus battlepass thing.

Gw2 constantly has sales on shit and much needed things like the material vault as well as loot boxes.

The fact of the matter is that F2P games are only able to exist because people spend more then they do when a game is a sub game.

I'd argue skins aren't "pressure", they're always optional cosmetics. Which is like, exactly what should be monetized. Super expensive skins are cool and all, but I can play the game with the default skins and still have a grand old time. If I wanna drop $100 on a skin I can! But if I can't afford it no worries, my gameplay ain't impacted. Devs gotta eat and shit, so if whales wanna drop that cash good on them.

Battle Passes? Depends on the game, I'm not familiar with Genshin's but most games have free/paid tracks with Battle Passes and pack it with cosmetics/convenience stuff (again, what should be monetized). What's in Genshin's that's "needed"?

GW2 has sales on shit all the time yeah....and? That's just normal shit being sold for cheaper, none of it is necessary. The closest thing I could think of would be the scrap machines, but those are much more of a convenience than anything else. Additional material storage is again, optional, I've never purchased it and I've played since launch. Loot boxes suck but again, completely optional. Never purchased one, only ever opened random ones when I find them/keys.

F2P games are heavily monetized, sure. But self control exists for players who may be on a budget. And on average, most folks don't spend much, or anything, in F2P games. I've worked on a few and the majority of players spend little to nothing. You've got a smaller crop of players who periodically drop some cash here and there, then you've got the whales that drop thousands/tens of thousands each month because they can and they subsidize the game for the free players. There's no "F2P costs people more than P2P" measure that I've ever seen that comes close to being true.

Beyond that even P2P games have adopted quite a few F2P monetization techniques. WoW sells tons off account convenience perks and cosmetics, it also straight up sells transferrable time that can be sold to other players for in-game gold (similar to GW2 Gems -> Gold). And it's got a bloody sub on it.

[Selvari7]

I have spent less on Wow subbing day one than I have in any f2p game I've played. Wow costs what less than 200 bucks a year?



The ETC fit the appearance of wow and wear armor from in game. Seraphine doesn't fit the already established lore look of Piltover nor the musical characters that already exist.

So even if we say 5 years. That's $1000. How much do you think you will really be spending on a cash shop and cosmetic purchases in Riot's mmo.

[qwerty123456]

I'd argue skins aren't "pressure", they're always optional cosmetics. Which is like, exactly what should be monetized. Super expensive skins are cool and all, but I can play the game with the default skins and still have a grand old time. If I wanna drop $100 on a skin I can! But if I can't afford it no worries, my gameplay ain't impacted. Devs gotta eat and shit, so if whales wanna drop that cash good on them.

Battle Passes? Depends on the game, I'm not familiar with Genshin's but most games have free/paid tracks with Battle Passes and pack it with cosmetics/convenience stuff (again, what should be monetized). What's in Genshin's that's "needed"?

GW2 has sales on shit all the time yeah....and? That's just normal shit being sold for cheaper, none of it is necessary. The closest thing I could think of would be the scrap machines, but those are much more of a convenience than anything else. Additional material storage is again, optional, I've never purchased it and I've played since launch. Loot boxes suck but again, completely optional. Never purchased one, only ever opened random ones when I find them/keys.

F2P games are heavily monetized, sure. But self control exists for players who may be on a budget. And on average, most folks don't spend much, or anything, in F2P games. I've worked on a few and the majority of players spend little to nothing. You've got a smaller crop of players who periodically drop some cash here and there, then you've got the whales that drop thousands/tens of thousands each month because they can and they subsidize the game for the free players. There's no "F2P costs people more than P2P" measure that I've ever seen that comes close to being true.

Beyond that even P2P games have adopted quite a few F2P monetization techniques. WoW sells tons off account convenience perks and cosmetics, it also straight up sells transferrable time that can be sold to other players for in-game gold (similar to GW2 Gems -> Gold). And it's got a bloody sub on it.

Yeah because everyone wants to look like a basic bitch when they could look badass. There's no pressure there at all . Hell you have kids in school being bullied because they have basic skins in Fortnite. Dev's gotta eat and shit and yet these companies are raking in billions. EA ain't making god tiers of cash just off of single player rpgs.

Do you seriously believe that a p2p game that is failing and suddenly making bank as a f2p game is doing so because they have millions of more players spending 5 dollars a month instead of 15? Or is it that they expect the people who actually pay to spend more in game? Even your example of the games you worked on having the whales subsidize the game is proof that they expect the people who pay to pay more. F2P players aren't given the game out of the goodness of the devs heart its so that the world feel more alive for the whales.

Its not just whales buying shit. Sales and limited time content exist to trick people into buying something they normally might not or risk losing out on it or get a "deal" when in its not costing them 85$ per 100$ skin they craft since its just pixels like what occurs with real items. They could easily keep the item at the sale price and yet don't.

Genshin's is exp, gold, a weapon, character skill books and shit. It costs a ton of resources to get to max level and you only get so much resin per day without paying for it with real cash. (resin is basically your energy meter that most mobile games have so you cant just constantly grind) also to guarantee you the featured character of the banner you can spend like 200$ just to hit the pity.

Self control only works so much. And when you have systems in place designed to drain and or trick you self control isn't very effective. There's reasons why you have to buy a virtual in game currency with money instead of buying shit directly with cash and one of the reasons is to obfuscate the amount of cash a player is actually spending.

STO just had the 200$ ship and item anniversary pack. Clearly they expect people to buy it otherwise they wouldn't have put the price so high. They had a much better 10th anniversary pack last year for the same price with like double the ships but Perfect World told them it was too good a deal.

Just because there are people who get the game for free doesn't mean they don't expect the actual people who pay to pay less than a yearly sub fee. They wouldn't have 50-300$ packs in f2p games if they didn't expect people to buy them.

Don't get me wrong I don't think F2P games are the most evil thing in existence (battlepasses are). But I'd much rather play a monthly sub game where you aren't exploiting a fraction of your playbase.

So even if we say 5 years. That's $1000. How much do you think you will really be spending on a cash shop and cosmetic purchases in Riot's mmo.

Given their pricings in Valorant I'd say I expect the people who buy shit to be spending 1k a year atleast. Depends on if they have loot boxes or what. The more gambling the more they can drain from the players who play.

[Edge-]

Yeah because everyone wants to look like a basic bitch when they could look badass. There's no pressure there at all . Hell you have kids in school being bullied because they have basic skins in Fortnite. Dev's gotta eat and shit and yet these companies are raking in billions. EA ain't making god tiers of cash just off of single player rpgs.

If you have a more fair way to monetize games that doesn't impact gameplay, I'm sure the industry would love to hear it.

Like, I spend on skins sometimes too because I like them. But that doesn't mean I'm spending hundreds in skins in a game every year, I'll nab a few I like each year and call it a day. It's really not terribly difficult to set a "gaming budget" and limit your spending in F2P games while still picking stuff up.

Haven't seen kids bullied in school over Fortnite, haven't been in school in ages. But that's pretty basic "school" stuff, if not Fortnite skins it'd be something else.

And actually yeah, EA is making loads of cash off single player games. Jedi: Fallen Order was a massive hit for them, and their struggles with Anthem caused them to pivot DA4 from a live-service game to an offline single player game.

Do you seriously believe that a p2p game that is failing and suddenly making bank as a f2p game is doing so because they have millions of more players spending 5 dollars a month instead of 15?

Not at all. Going F2P dramatically expands the playerbase (games often see 100-1000% increases in active, concurrent, registered players etc.) which brings in both a lot more players improving the health of the game, and being able to both turn existing paying players into bigger spenders while picking up new big spenders, plus some additional smaller spenders on the side, usually helps their financials. I've worked on games that have done the transition and it's not like they're simply monetizing the existing playerbase more...well except for maybe CoH.

Even your example of the games you worked on having the whales subsidize the game is proof that they expect the people who pay to pay more.

Not "expect", but they cater to whales on the monetization front to a certain extent, much moreso in mobile where whales may legitimately help steer development. That's literally the nature of the F2P business model: A small crop of wealthy players dropping huge loads of cash largely subsidizing all the free players who don't spend a penny over years and years of playing. And that's a fantastic fuckin deal for free players, they're getting oodles of free content because wealthier folks are paying for it.

F2P players aren't given the game out of the goodness of the devs heart its so that the world feel more alive for the whales.

It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, yo. F2P players aren't "out" anything for playing a F2P games for years without spending a penny.

Sales and limited time content exist to trick people into buying something they normally might not or risk losing out on it or get a "deal" when in its not costing them 85$ per 100$ skin they craft since its just pixels like what occurs with real items. They could easily keep the item at the sale price and yet don't.

"Trick" isn't remotely accurate, but leverage "FOMO" is very accurate. But it's not something unique to gaming or F2P (seen the McRib? how about the limited time deals with WoW subs and cash shop cosmetics?), and sales are like...a standard thing across every business and generally pretty good for consumers.

Again, this seems to be more, "People lack self control!" rather than, "The game is exploitative!" since I genuinely can't think of any truly exploitative major F2P games on PC/console, which is what we're talking about with a Riot MMO.

Genshin's is exp, gold, a weapon, character skill books and shit. It costs a ton of resources to get to max level and you only get so much resin per day without paying for it with real cash. (resin is basically your energy meter that most mobile games have so you cant just constantly grind) also to guarantee you the featured character of the banner you can spend like 200$ just to hit the pity.

Ok, so your spending is determined by how quickly you want to progress some aspects of the game. How dreadful that they'd incentivize spending some money! But that you can progress for free, albeit at a slower rate, is pretty rad. If you're "serious" about a F2P game I'd expect one to be willing to drop some cash on it as one would a B2P/P2P game, that's how they all kinda work, but for casual players who don't care as much about quick progression it doesn't much matter. I fit into the latter category (though don't play Genshin), and have no problems dropping cash in F2P games I'm more into.

Self control only works so much. And when you have systems in place designed to drain and or trick you self control isn't very effective. There's reasons why you have to buy a virtual in game currency with money instead of buying shit directly with cash and one of the reasons is to obfuscate the amount of cash a player is actually spending.

Not really, it's more to follow ye-olden Xbox Live model of tokens where you would always have tokens left over as there was no way to buy a "clean" amount of tokens. Those leftover tokens remain there, tempting you to buy some more to use them. PoE does that to a point, though their point system is pretty much 10:1, so 10 points = 1 dollar, so that 240 point armor is $24. Easy peasy.

STO just had the 200$ ship and item anniversary pack. Clearly they expect people to buy it otherwise they wouldn't have put the price so high. They had a much better 10th anniversary pack last year for the same price with like double the ships but Perfect World told them it was too good a deal.

It appears it was $200 for the whole pack, which is 4 legendary ships and a TON of other stuff. STO is actually one of the more aggressively monetized games from what I know. I hope more games don't follow this model, but it's a game I casually play on the side from time to time and enjoy all the same.

Just because there are people who get the game for free doesn't mean they don't expect the actual people who pay to pay less than a yearly sub fee. They wouldn't have 50-300$ packs in f2p games if they didn't expect people to buy them.

Yes, these are the whales I'm talking about. Many have the lifetime sub, so ongoing subs isn't a way to monetize them and they need to work on other offerings. As much as lifetime subs are great for players, they're a disaster for revenue generation.

Given their pricings in Valorant I'd say I expect the people who buy shit to be spending 1k a year atleast. Depends on if they have loot boxes or what. The more gambling the more they can drain from the players who play.

If someone "NEEDS TO HAVE EVERYTHING!", sure. But for someone playing normally, probably not. They may want a few skins a year depending on their budget, but that's entirely up to them to decide. Riot, or any company, having additional MTX options for bigger spenders doesn't mean they expect everyone to buy that shit.

Just like Blizzard selling mounts and pets and whatnot doesn't mean that they expect everyone to buy that shit on top of the sub, either.

[VinceVega]

like i said its just an example 80 of characters are females with skanky outfits, look which is fine thats their creative direction, im not trying to "cancel" them, its just not what i look for in an mmo, i know its like the big thing in asia which is probably the market choice for any new game though

Well to BE fair they are not that shy to make their men skanky too...
But i agree. I tend to dislike games where every last character is a supermodel. But at least lol did not give every last female HUUUUUUUUUUGE tits like asian games nearly always do.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd argue skins aren't "pressure", they're always optional cosmetics. Which is like, exactly what should be monetized. Super expensive skins are cool and all, but I can play the game with the default skins and still have a grand old time. If I wanna drop $100 on a skin I can! But if I can't afford it no worries, my gameplay ain't impacted. Devs gotta eat and shit, so if whales wanna drop that cash good on them.

Battle Passes? Depends on the game, I'm not familiar with Genshin's but most games have free/paid tracks with Battle Passes and pack it with cosmetics/convenience stuff (again, what should be monetized). What's in Genshin's that's "needed"?

GW2 has sales on shit all the time yeah....and? That's just normal shit being sold for cheaper, none of it is necessary. The closest thing I could think of would be the scrap machines, but those are much more of a convenience than anything else. Additional material storage is again, optional, I've never purchased it and I've played since launch. Loot boxes suck but again, completely optional. Never purchased one, only ever opened random ones when I find them/keys.

F2P games are heavily monetized, sure. But self control exists for players who may be on a budget. And on average, most folks don't spend much, or anything, in F2P games. I've worked on a few and the majority of players spend little to nothing. You've got a smaller crop of players who periodically drop some cash here and there, then you've got the whales that drop thousands/tens of thousands each month because they can and they subsidize the game for the free players. There's no "F2P costs people more than P2P" measure that I've ever seen that comes close to being true.

Beyond that even P2P games have adopted quite a few F2P monetization techniques. WoW sells tons off account convenience perks and cosmetics, it also straight up sells transferrable time that can be sold to other players for in-game gold (similar to GW2 Gems -> Gold). And it's got a bloody sub on it.

If you make an RPG the look of your character IS important. Imagine the outrage if blizz would suddenly make transmogging more restrictive.
If i play a RPG i don't want to spend hundreds of dollars just so my character doesnt look like shit.

In lol it doesnt really matter. In CSGO i would argue it doesnt matter and even overwatch i don't care which skin is use. I don't even see myself anyway.

But in an RPG it is a big part. Sure i can play without caring but that is for many simply a really big part of the game.

If lol decides to go this way i won't play it. It is just shitty monetization for RPGs. Sure the asian market will gobble it up like always... no idea why the have no problem with stuff like that really...

I rather pay 15 € monthly and get everything the game has to offer. Because if i wan't to play ANY game with monetized customization i would have to spend a few thousand dollars more most of the time.

Also: IMHO games with these monetization should be not open to people under 18. Period.

[Edge-]

If you make an RPG the look of your character IS important. Imagine the outrage if blizz would suddenly make transmogging more restrictive.
If i play a RPG i don't want to spend hundreds of dollars just so my character doesnt look like shit.

Most have plenty of fine in-game options and plenty of cheaper options. Considering you're not paying a box price/sub, is it outrageous to expect to spend a bit of cash on a cool skin or two?

As for the Blizz comparison...they'd have to drop the sub, too. GW2 is monetized that way (transmog charges) and honestly it's still pretty generous with them and they're fairly cheap.

But in an RPG it is a big part. Sure i can play without caring but that is for many simply a really big part of the game.

Fair, but that presumes that there won't be any cool/good in-game skins/armor/weapons. Something which I don't think I've ever seen in any game I've played.

If lol decides to go this way i won't play it. It is just shitty monetization for RPGs. Sure the asian market will gobble it up like always... no idea why the have no problem with stuff like that really...

The long/short of it seems that F2P games simply can't be monetized in any way. Power? Hell no. Cosmetics? Apparently not. Convenience stuff? No way! So what are they left with, a gofundme page?

Cosmetic skins are a standard monetization tactic for games in the west as well, it's not an Asian market thing. If you want something more unique to the Asian market, that'd be straight up power selling/P2W.

I rather pay 15 € monthly and get everything the game has to offer. Because if i wan't to play ANY game with monetized customization i would have to spend a few thousand dollars more most of the time.

Hey, you'd rather spend $15/m that's fair! I can get that, but please remember that you're also not getting everything in a game like WoW or FFXIV. Both maintain cash shops. To the point, I don't think there's a single MMO out there that doesn't have additional monetization on top of a mandatory sub.

But it's also something you can easily do in non-sub games. Just set yourself an annual limit of $180 or so and spend it how you want.

Also: IMHO games with these monetization should be not open to people under 18. Period.

Why? Lockboxes I can agree with you on, but just general games with cash shops? Teens have jobs. Teens have expendable income. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to buy that one cool skin they want with their spending money from their allowance/part time job.

[qwerty123456]

If you have a more fair way to monetize games that doesn't impact gameplay, I'm sure the industry would love to hear it.

Like, I spend on skins sometimes too because I like them. But that doesn't mean I'm spending hundreds in skins in a game every year, I'll nab a few I like each year and call it a day. It's really not terribly difficult to set a "gaming budget" and limit your spending in F2P games while still picking stuff up.

Haven't seen kids bullied in school over Fortnite, haven't been in school in ages. But that's pretty basic "school" stuff, if not Fortnite skins it'd be something else.

And actually yeah, EA is making loads of cash off single player games. Jedi: Fallen Order was a massive hit for them, and their struggles with Anthem caused them to pivot DA4 from a live-service game to an offline single player game.



Not at all. Going F2P dramatically expands the playerbase (games often see 100-1000% increases in active, concurrent, registered players etc.) which brings in both a lot more players improving the health of the game, and being able to both turn existing paying players into bigger spenders while picking up new big spenders, plus some additional smaller spenders on the side, usually helps their financials. I've worked on games that have done the transition and it's not like they're simply monetizing the existing playerbase more...well except for maybe CoH.



Not "expect", but they cater to whales on the monetization front to a certain extent, much moreso in mobile where whales may legitimately help steer development. That's literally the nature of the F2P business model: A small crop of wealthy players dropping huge loads of cash largely subsidizing all the free players who don't spend a penny over years and years of playing. And that's a fantastic fuckin deal for free players, they're getting oodles of free content because wealthier folks are paying for it.



It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, yo. F2P players aren't "out" anything for playing a F2P games for years without spending a penny.



"Trick" isn't remotely accurate, but leverage "FOMO" is very accurate. But it's not something unique to gaming or F2P (seen the McRib? how about the limited time deals with WoW subs and cash shop cosmetics?), and sales are like...a standard thing across every business and generally pretty good for consumers.

Again, this seems to be more, "People lack self control!" rather than, "The game is exploitative!" since I genuinely can't think of any truly exploitative major F2P games on PC/console, which is what we're talking about with a Riot MMO.



Ok, so your spending is determined by how quickly you want to progress some aspects of the game. How dreadful that they'd incentivize spending some money! But that you can progress for free, albeit at a slower rate, is pretty rad. If you're "serious" about a F2P game I'd expect one to be willing to drop some cash on it as one would a B2P/P2P game, that's how they all kinda work, but for casual players who don't care as much about quick progression it doesn't much matter. I fit into the latter category (though don't play Genshin), and have no problems dropping cash in F2P games I'm more into.



Not really, it's more to follow ye-olden Xbox Live model of tokens where you would always have tokens left over as there was no way to buy a "clean" amount of tokens. Those leftover tokens remain there, tempting you to buy some more to use them. PoE does that to a point, though their point system is pretty much 10:1, so 10 points = 1 dollar, so that 240 point armor is $24. Easy peasy.



It appears it was $200 for the whole pack, which is 4 legendary ships and a TON of other stuff. STO is actually one of the more aggressively monetized games from what I know. I hope more games don't follow this model, but it's a game I casually play on the side from time to time and enjoy all the same.



Yes, these are the whales I'm talking about. Many have the lifetime sub, so ongoing subs isn't a way to monetize them and they need to work on other offerings. As much as lifetime subs are great for players, they're a disaster for revenue generation.



If someone "NEEDS TO HAVE EVERYTHING!", sure. But for someone playing normally, probably not. They may want a few skins a year depending on their budget, but that's entirely up to them to decide. Riot, or any company, having additional MTX options for bigger spenders doesn't mean they expect everyone to buy that shit.

Just like Blizzard selling mounts and pets and whatnot doesn't mean that they expect everyone to buy that shit on top of the sub, either.

Ok here's a quick monetization idea that doesn't exploit people. Set up a patreon like system where you can donate money to the development of more game content, keep servers running/maintenance, and tipping the devs and/or new game creation. Then let people see how much money is going into each area and how much each area costs yearly. So if some billionaire wants to have their great great grandkid play the game a hundred years from now they can dump all their money into keeping the servers up and running and general maintenance on the game. Then little Billy seeing that because of the billionaire and other people the game servers will be up for 150 years can then put 20 bucks into game updates instead of keeping the servers up.

You are missing the point. If they weren't expecting the spenders to spend a shitload they wouldn't have ridiculously high prices on items. If they know they can get a million people spending 5 dollars a month or 100,000 spending 50 a month if they weren't intentionally exploiting the big spenders they would set the monetization at 5$ instead of 50.

And yes stores have sales and other things designed to entice people to buy something they weren't going to in the first place but they also have a physical supply that can run out and costs resources to continually reproduce the product.

Maybe I'm biased as my degree is in Psychology and Sociology and so see all the tricks they use. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are devs that seriously think all the f2p players are poor and are saving them from boredom and that everyone spending 200+ a month is a millionaire and when they quit after spending 800$ on a loot box they only did so cause they found a different game they enjoy more and not because the massive amount of creditcard debt they have wracked up playing the game. Maybe they also truly believe that people enjoy loot boxes and wouldn't want to pay 25$ for a mount and instead want to spend 1000$ to get it in a loot box because its fun and not because they invested a ton of money into getting something good and only got trash and so feel they need to spend until they get the mount or they just wasted a ton of money for nothing.

Also this whole conversation was because you didn't believe that f2p games expected its paying players to spend more than 200 a year and yet I have given several examples of high costing packs. Clearly they expect the spenders to spend money.

[Cattleya]

Don't get me wrong I don't think F2P games are the most evil thing in existence (battlepasses are). But I'd much rather play a monthly sub game where you aren't exploiting a fraction of your playbase.

But subscription-based games do that anyway. Mounts, pets, transmogs, Blizzard has sold it all on their store, not to mention server transfers, level boosts etc. They are of course in no way alone in that, other subscription-based games do it too (FFXIV)

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer sub fee over f2p as well, but the MTX argument doesn't work in that regard

[dextersmith]

Saw Ghostcrawler and immediately lost interest.

[Niwes]

hopefully it is a MMORPG instead of a MMO. and hopefully it uses some classical approach, finally offering me a good alternative to what WoW became. with better story and less „systems“. but i doubt it, because riot always was very e-sporty / pvp oriented. so i assume its more of a pvp oriented MMO. but we will see. will watch it closely.

[Vampyrr]

Problem is they are Asian owned so itl be another grindy garbage nonsense Asian MMO and not a Western Style MMO which means I will likely avoid it. Maybe if it was still the original Riot company Id want to check it out.

- - - Updated - - -

But subscription-based games do that anyway. Mounts, pets, transmogs, Blizzard has sold it all on their store, not to mention server transfers, level boosts etc. They are of course in no way alone in that, other subscription-based games do it too (FFXIV)

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer sub fee over f2p as well, but the MTX argument doesn't work in that regard

But F2P usually locks systems and game effecting changes behind MTX rather than cosmetics (character slots, ability slots, crafting materials even gear etc etc). Cosmetics are fine to be MTX but it should never expand beyond that.

[Ynisl]

It will be very interesting to see what they get.

[Blezius]

Problem is they are Asian owned so itl be another grindy garbage nonsense Asian MMO and not a Western Style MMO which means I will likely avoid it. Maybe if it was still the original Riot company Id want to check it out.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Do you think just because an investment company acquired Riot, the entire development team is gonna be gutted and replaced with Chinese developers ?

I'd really appreciate it if people who don't know what the implications are of Tencent acquiring a company refrain from spreading nonsensical information so we can actually talk about meaningful implications that make sense, or implications that actually happened before.

[Vampyrr]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Do you think just because an investment company acquired Riot, the entire development team is gonna be gutted and replaced with Chinese developers ?

I'd really appreciate it if people who don't know what the implications are of Tencent acquiring a company refrain from spreading nonsensical information so we can actually talk about meaningful implications that make sense, or implications that actually happened before.

If you think it wont and hasn't already influenced development direction you are delusional

[Edge-]

If you think it wont and hasn't already influenced development direction you are delusional

How has it negatively impacted games like PoE or LoL? Neither seem to have changed much following their Tencent acquisition.