Now that its been proven min maxes are the majority will content change?

[A Chozo]

you seem to be rather desperately stretching to try and discredit this

Just because you bring bogus data to discussions doesn't mean the rest of us are "stretching" to discredit something that was already discredited other times in this very thread.

[Frozenbro]

A lot of people don't want to be night fae...but they HAVE to be. Check out fire mages.

Easy there, dont break their bubble, im sure fire mages love being night fae thematically, its definitely not cause of the covenant ability being a perfect fit for combustion, not at all.

[Electric Lighter]

Just because you bring bogus data to discussions doesn't mean the rest of us are "stretching" to discredit something that was already discredited other times in this very thread.

What is bogus about it? It is a collection of all characters played in the past 28 days via the official armory.

I don't see how you discredited it... you seem to just have a lot of distain for what it shows.

[Sunnydee]

Wouldn't call it minmaxing, more following the hoard. There is so many people that blindly follows guides without questioning it in any type of way.

That's not minmaxing.

[Electric Lighter]

Wouldn't call it minmaxing, more following the hoard. There is so many people that blindly follows guides without questioning it in any type of way.

That's not minmaxing.

What is the difference? For that matter if they are going to do so anyways does it honestly matter?

[Frozenbro]

Wouldn't call it minmaxing, more following the hoard. There is so many people that blindly follows guides without questioning it in any type of way.

That's not minmaxing.

This tbh xd the vast majority of the playerbase are just sheeps, which is different to actual minmaxers.

[Electric Lighter]

This tbh xd the vast majority of the playerbase are just sheeps, which is different to actual minmaxers.

In what way?

[Frozenbro]

What is the difference? For that matter if they are going to do so anyways does it honestly matter?

There is a difference, the sheep does what the majority does or blindly follows the guide written by the minmaxer, a minmaxer knows exactly why hes making X choice, how many fire mages that are night fae know actually why fire mage chooses that covenant? only the minmaxers know, the rest are the usual sheeps that copy stuff despite barely doing any content.

[Electric Lighter]

There is a difference, the sheep does what the majority does or blindly follows the guide written by the minmaxer, a minmaxer knows exactly why hes making X choice, how many fire mages that are night fae know actually why fire mage chooses that covenant? only the minmaxers know, the rest are the usual sheeps that copy stuff despite barely doing any content.

So.. it shows they want the best possible results and they actively will tailor every choice towards it but because they didn't do the math themselves they secretly are somehow not min maxing...

[LedZeppelin]

alright, you sold me. there is now only 1 spec per class and no covenants

[Sunnydee]

What is the difference? For that matter if they are going to do so anyways does it honestly matter?

Why you do something (taken a certain talent, conduit or w/e) is what majority of the people probably arent asking themselfs.
That's a pretty big difference.

The "best in bag" setting on raidbots is a perfect example of people not reaching their full potential with their class if they don't ask the question why is that trinket better or why do most use that conduit, what makes it so good? But most people put in their settings and sim and just "oh computer says this so must be right" type of thing.

What do you mean with if it matters? what matters?

[Frozenbro]

So.. it shows they want the best possible results and they actively will tailor every choice towards it but because they didn't do the math themselves they secretly are somehow not min maxing...

They arent just like you said, they are blindly following what the rest does, do they actually know that X covenant is actually the best performing 1? or they just read it in a guide or saw everyone choosing that covenant? the answer is they actually dont know at all xd and that makes them a sheep rather than an actual minmaxer, but like you said the result is the same in the end, but its not a bad thing to know the difference, the funny part is the actually delusional people that still believe that the wow community isnt plagued by sheeps.

[Electric Lighter]

Why you do something (taken a certain talent, conduit or w/e) is what majority of the people probably arent asking themselfs.
That's a pretty big difference.

The "best in bag" setting on raidbots is a perfect example of people not reaching their full potential with their class if they don't ask the question why is that trinket better or why do most use that conduit, what makes it so good? But most people put in their settings and sim and just "oh computer says this so must be right" type of thing.

What do you mean with if it matters? what matters?

The level of play were that leveling of min maxing matters is reserved for rather progressed mythic raiders and even then only for very specific encounters. I am asking why it matters why they are min maxing.

You can argue that beyond the extreme ends of the difficulty and pvp it really doesn't matter what you pick but that isn't what the community does. They want the most powerful option and pick it consistently. It feels like arguing "well they are not so invested as to know every detail as to why its the best" Isn't a argument that has any use. What does it matter if they know the math behind it if they are only chasing after the results?

[Shiekyerbooty]

For me, when I play an mmo/rpg, one of the main goals I look forward too is feeling stronger and stronger the more time I put into the game.. it would almost seem counterintuitive to pick something that made me measurably weaker...

And I guess the only way to measure that is our ever-present meters.... this is why we min max....this is why we want our characters to progress, who would choose on purpose to be lower on the meters

[WowIsDead64]

With covenants we finally found a way to put to the old argument to rest. Min maxing is what matters to the vast majority of players. Most specs have upwards of 90% of the active player base picking the covenant that offers them the best performance. (There are some exceptions like havoc but that specs dead and its abysmal numbers seem to point towards min maxing rather then against.)

Now that the old argument has been put to rest do you think in the future we will see blizzard moving away from meaningless systems like covenants and relics now that it has been shown players only care about what gives the best performance barring a tiny minority?

Dunno. May be it's the same situation, as with talents back in old times? I wasn't picking cookie cutter ones, because they were the best. I just didn't care about them. That's why I was going to fan site to see, which ones I should have picked. Because cookie cutter is still better, than just random ones.

[Bee76]

Pretty weak troll post.

Nothing of the sort has been proven. 80% of the good covenant choices overlap with what fits best thematically/lorewise hence why most people are choosing it.

Sorry, but i disagree. My warlock is kyrian for a reason, and thats not the cov theme. What speccs should play venthyr besides rogues ? partying vampires fits where exactly thematically ? and why is my resto-sham a necro ?

From my point of view, my hunter deserves to be a necro. but well - rip dmg then. Covenants are still terrible balanced for group based content, and there are only a few speccs where i would agree that the best performing cov is the best fitting covenant thematically.

[LedZeppelin]

as long as the covenants are close in power level thats all that matters. blizz has shown that they do want this to be true.

[Tyris Flare]

What is bogus about it? It is a collection of all characters played in the past 28 days via the official armory.

I don't see how you discredited it... you seem to just have a lot of distain for what it shows.

This guy has already clowned himself in basically every other thread by denying that the data is real. Azeroth flat-earthers exist, apparently.

Valid Data Criticism: Some amount of players won't be registered with this data because they do not meet the criteria (depending on the chart, have never won a single arena game, killed a single raid boss, or done a single m+ dungeon). So the results are definitely not perfect. However, unless there are literally hundreds of millions of secret wow players, it's probably more accurate now than it was even 5 years ago given basic data inferences .

Stupid Data Criticism: Raider.io causes autism

[Echocho]

Too bad that OP got banned. He seemed like a reasonable and pleasant fella

[Frozenbro]

However, unless there are literally hundreds of millions of secret wow players, it's probably more accurate now than it was even 5 years ago given basic data inferences .

There are, dont you know? the vast majority of wow players just log in to do some pet battles so they dont partake in absolutely any content that this data registers, or at least thats what some people believe here.