Mistake in chronicle 3

[Destructor]

Cenarius vs Grom ...
In chronicle is written that Grom Hellscream beat Cenarius in 1 vs 1 fight. It is obvioulsly nonsense because entire Warsong clan with hundreds of orcs beat Demigod. Cenarius is nearly as powerful as Archimonde, more powerful than Lich King and probably 10 times stronger than Malfuriion and Illidan. Did the writter of this book read War of Ancients or at least play Warcraft 3? It's funny because in fact Cenarius was fuc*ing huge and muscular but this picture in chronicle suggest that he looked like a dryad with anorexia.

[Houle]

Cenarius vs Grom ...
In chronicle is written that Grom Hellscream beat Cenarius in 1 vs 1 fight. It is obvioulsly nonsense because entire Warsong clan with hundreds of orcs beat Demigod. Cenarius is nearly as powerful as Archimonde, more powerful than Lich King and probably 10 times stronger than Malfuriion and Illidan. Did the writter of this book read War of Ancients or at least play Warcraft 3? It's funny because in fact Cenarius was fuc*ing huge and muscular but this picture in chronicle suggest that he looked like a dryad with anorexia.

cenarius isnt even close to archimonde lol. hes mannoroth level. mannoroth fought him 1v1 in the WotA and says in WC3 he wants to fight him again. and since the LK is far above mannoroth, hes also above cenarius.
sounds like you need to go play WC3 again.

[TigTone]

You must be thinking of Malorne. Which is still not stronger then Archimonde

[StationaryHawk]

In chronicle is written that Grom Hellscream beat Cenarius in 1 vs 1 fight.

Then that is the case. Chronicle takes precedence over all previous sources.

Cenarius is nearly as powerful as Archimonde

As far as I know, Cenarius never fought Archimonde directly. Given that you referenced the War of the Ancients novels, you're probably mistaking him for his father, Malorne.

[Razion]

Well, even the most powerful beasts become recognized as demi-gods and gods, or loa - but at the end of the day they're still just beasts at their core, who just happen to be strong.

Same with Cenarius. He isn't a pinnacle of creation, he was just a keeper, and sure his parents were significant but ultimately while he's classified as a demi-god he is still just an old and powerful keeper.

Just because he was revered for his strength doesn't make him above being killed. An axe is going to kill him just like anything else. Maybe we can argue his spirit is immortal because his spirit is strong, but what separates someone like Cenarius who is basically just a strong keeper to Grom who was also one of of not the strongest Orc around?

Heroes are mythical and revered in their own cultures, too. Plus Grom was fueled with Pit Lord blood, and Pit Lords have taken on dragons which are kind of meant to be a big deal in Azeroth's defense. But, again, dragons, ultimately just really strong proto-drakes. And what are Pit Lords? Basically just really strong demons.

[darkoms]

cenarius isnt even close to archimonde lol. hes mannoroth level. mannoroth fought him 1v1 in the WotA and says in WC3 he wants to fight him again. and since the LK is far above mannoroth, hes also above cenarius.
sounds like you need to go play WC3 again.

Cenarius is indeed Mannoroth's level (maybe a little weaker), but what the hell is this against the fact that the LK is much stronger than Mannoroth? LK is not even stronger than Lei Shen and Lei Shen is close to the level of Xuen, another mighty wild god

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Cenarius vs Grom ...
In chronicle is written that Grom Hellscream beat Cenarius in 1 vs 1 fight. It is obvioulsly nonsense because entire Warsong clan with hundreds of orcs beat Demigod. Cenarius is nearly as powerful as Archimonde, more powerful than Lich King and probably 10 times stronger than Malfuriion and Illidan. Did the writter of this book read War of Ancients or at least play Warcraft 3? It's funny because in fact Cenarius was fuc*ing huge and muscular but this picture in chronicle suggest that he looked like a dryad with anorexia.

Cenarius is much weaker than Archimonde.
The entire clan fought against night elves and forest creatures. You also don't understand how Cenarius works. He's an idiot. He is one of the most powerful druids in the world and has tremendous magical powers, but he just loves close combat. Have you read The War of the Ancients? He did not stand or use magic behind the army like Malfurion, he crashed into the demon army as a berserker and tore them apart because he was enraged by the deaths of other wild gods and so Malorne had to save him. And there is absolutely nothing strange about Grommash defeating him in close combat. Cenarius has no armor, Grommash is one of the strongest warriors, under the blood of Mannoroth and with a powerful magical ax. Brox did more impressive things than Cenarius in the War of the Ancients, why are you having trouble with Grommash? The savage gods were dying from an army of demons, near their allies and on their own land, while Brox killed so many demons on Argus that Sargeras had to intervene personally.

[Houle]

Cenarius is indeed Mannoroth's level (maybe a little weaker), but what the hell is this against the fact that the LK is much stronger than Mannoroth? LK is not even stronger than Lei Shen and Lei Shen is close to the level of Xuen, another mighty wild god

because of literally everything weve seen these characters do?
example: Mannoroth was attacked by a charging orc with an axe and died. The LK was attacked by a charging orc with an axe and literally one-shotted him without giving single fuck. Mannoroth really isnt that powerful, same with Cenarius, who got also killed by Grom 1v1. And Xuen would eat Cenarius.

[darkoms]

because of literally everything weve seen these characters do?
example: Mannoroth was attacked by a charging orc with an axe and died. The LK was attacked by a charging orc with an axe and literally one-shotted him without giving single fuck. Mannoroth really isnt that powerful, same with Cenarius, who got also killed by Grom 1v1. And Xuen would eat Cenarius.

Oh yes, because it was the same orc, with the same powers, and the same ax. By the way, Mannoroth did not even expect the Grommash to attack him. Read the Chronicles. I have never seen a more stupid argument in my life. Am I correct in that if Archimonde can defeat Malfurion, any imp can do it because they are both demons?
We have no idea how strong Mannoroth is compared to Cenarius. And Lei Shen will eat the Lich King.

[shoc]

Power levels in Warcraft are completely arbitrary. No matter how strong they are always weaker than a band of adventurers.

[darkoms]

Power levels in Warcraft are completely arbitrary. No matter how strong they are always weaker than a band of adventurers.

Um, no. We almost never defeat really strong opponents without help. The Lich King, Archimonde, Deathwing. Someone is always helping us.

[TheFirstOnes]

Cenarius is indeed Mannoroth's level (maybe a little weaker), but what the hell is this against the fact that the LK is much stronger than Mannoroth? LK is not even stronger than Lei Shen and Lei Shen is close to the level of Xuen, another mighty wild god

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Cenarius is much weaker than Archimonde.
The entire clan fought against night elves and forest creatures. You also don't understand how Cenarius works. He's an idiot. He is one of the most powerful druids in the world and has tremendous magical powers, but he just loves close combat. Have you read The War of the Ancients? He did not stand or use magic behind the army like Malfurion, he crashed into the demon army as a berserker and tore them apart because he was enraged by the deaths of other wild gods and so Malorne had to save him. And there is absolutely nothing strange about Grommash defeating him in close combat. Cenarius has no armor, Grommash is one of the strongest warriors, under the blood of Mannoroth and with a powerful magical ax. Brox did more impressive things than Cenarius in the War of the Ancients, why are you having trouble with Grommash? The savage gods were dying from an army of demons, near their allies and on their own land, while Brox killed so many demons on Argus that Sargeras had to intervene personally.

Regarding the Lich King, I wouldn't trust anything from Dave Kosak years ago, especially since he's not only been wrong before, but Shadowlands has also wanked the power of Frostmourne, and other Domination pieces.

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Power levels in Warcraft are completely arbitrary. No matter how strong they are always weaker than a band of adventurers.

This is wrong. "Arbitrary", like what? So, ignore the fact that we needed the Titan spirits, the Aritfacts, and the Legendaries to help us face Argus? Forget the fact we legit only distracted Deathwing while Thrall and the Aspects were doing the real shit? Ignore the fact that we legit LOST to the Lich King, and only won cause Tirion clutched a victory with his final blessing within both himself and the Ashbringer? IGNORE THE FACT THAT WE'RE CAPABLE OF FIGHTING DENATHRIUS CAUSE OF THE ANIMA AMPS, DOMINATION GEAR AMPS, ETC?!?!

Dude...

I mean, dude, come on now. We definitely had help. Lots of help...

We exist on borrowed power. Cause, reminder, that without borrowed power, we cannot even defeat Nathanos...

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Oh yes, because it was the same orc, with the same powers, and the same ax. By the way, Mannoroth did not even expect the Grommash to attack him. Read the Chronicles. I have never seen a more stupid argument in my life. Am I correct in that if Archimonde can defeat Malfurion, any imp can do it because they are both demons?
We have no idea how strong Mannoroth is compared to Cenarius. And Lei Shen will eat the Lich King.

Yeah, Mannoroth is kind of a dumbass. He's strong, but he can easily get slapped when he's distracted. Grom killing him in the main timeline was a shock attack cause Mannoroth downplayed Thrall and Grom to shit, and the second time was when Mannoroth was distracted and arguably blinded by the Iron Star's explosion.

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Doesn't he legit call himself a weakling cause of his stupid ass failures when Gul'dan was tryna resurrect him? We basically face the TRUE, undistracted and unrelenting power of Mannoroth there, and we only won cause of the Legendary Rings clutching us. And reminder that the Legendary Rings are made by the primordial powers of Draenor itself. So, yeah no, Mannoroth is not really weak. He's just dumb.

[Houle]

Oh yes, because it was the same orc, with the same powers, and the same ax. By the way, Mannoroth did not even expect the Grommash to attack him. Read the Chronicles. I have never seen a more stupid argument in my life. Am I correct in that if Archimonde can defeat Malfurion, any imp can do it because they are both demons?
We have no idea how strong Mannoroth is compared to Cenarius. And Lei Shen will eat the Lich King.

damn, once again u manage to ignore all basic logic in favour of your fav characters.
lei shen would definitely not "eat" the LK. hed win, yeah, but it would probably be a good fight, IF daves quote is still considered canon, considering theyve retconned much about the LK this addon.
We know that mannoroth and cenarius fought 1v1. To say it in your words: "Read the Chronicles". Theres literally a picture of them fighting, and it looks pretty equal. Add that plus Mannoroths WC3 quote "Id relish the chance to face him in combat again". Thats not how you talk about someone whos definitely below or above you. Thats how you talk about someone whos roughly on your level.
all in all, go play WC3 and read chonicles vol. 3 again.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, even the most powerful beasts become recognized as demi-gods and gods, or loa - but at the end of the day they're still just beasts at their core, who just happen to be strong.

Same with Cenarius. He isn't a pinnacle of creation, he was just a keeper, and sure his parents were significant but ultimately while he's classified as a demi-god he is still just an old and powerful keeper.

Just because he was revered for his strength doesn't make him above being killed. An axe is going to kill him just like anything else. Maybe we can argue his spirit is immortal because his spirit is strong, but what separates someone like Cenarius who is basically just a strong keeper to Grom who was also one of of not the strongest Orc around?

Heroes are mythical and revered in their own cultures, too. Plus Grom was fueled with Pit Lord blood, and Pit Lords have taken on dragons which are kind of meant to be a big deal in Azeroth's defense. But, again, dragons, ultimately just really strong proto-drakes. And what are Pit Lords? Basically just really strong demons.

Cenarius didn't die to Grommash alone though. A bunch of Orcs were on his ass. Also, Gorehowl isn't really "weak". It's literally refined Orcish steel made into a badass, Warsong weapon. So, Grommash's raw power increasing the force of the Axe is definitely not impossible. I mean, the Axe of Cenarius when wielded by Broxigar was strong enough to bring about a small little cut through Sargeras' titan skin. Sure, it wasn't much of anything, but a cut is a cut.

Also, Cenarius is not like a keeper whatsoever. The Keepers are moreso comparable to Wild Gods, or some shit like that. Cenarius is a step below them.

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damn, once again u manage to ignore all basic logic in favour of your fav characters.
lei shen would definitely not "eat" the LK. hed win, yeah, but it would probably be a good fight, IF daves quote is still considered canon, considering theyve retconned much about the LK this addon.
We know that mannoroth and cenarius fought 1v1. To say it in your words: "Read the Chronicles". Theres literally a picture of them fighting, and it looks pretty equal. Add that plus Mannoroths WC3 quote "Id relish the chance to face him in combat again". Thats not how you talk about someone whos definitely below or above you. Thats how you talk about someone whos roughly on your level.
all in all, go play WC3 and read chonicles vol. 3 again.

Their battle never finished, but sure? Warcraft 3 is a better source in that they were equal.

Implied that both are formidable in power against one another, but Cenarius is crafty and isn't all that open in combat, which arguably gives him an advantage. Power wise though, they're kinda equal, sure. Hell, Tichondrius even states that because Mannoroth's power is also formidable, giving the Orcs more of his blood could actually give them a fighting chance against the lurking Demigod, or, in his words "They would be unstoppable", which in context just means Cenarius won't be able to stop their fury.

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Like I said, Mannoroth isn't weak. He's just dumb, and has underestimated the Orcs twice now in combat.

[StationaryHawk]

Cenarius didn't die to Grommash alone though.

He did, according to Chronicle. That's the topic of this thread.

[kranur]

It was Mannoroth the one remembering Cenarius to have formidable powers and not Archimonde. But Mannorth is not that powerful of a demon. Archimonde though is many levels above the kinds of Cenarius and pit lords.

[Razion]

[...]
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The video provides a good point. It wasn't just Mannoroth's blood - it was dropped into a Moonwell - waters from the original Well of Eternity, blessed by Elune, and corrupted by a Pit Lord. That's powerful juice.

[Wangming]

Well, even the most powerful beasts become recognized as demi-gods and gods, or loa - but at the end of the day they're still just beasts at their core, who just happen to be strong.

Same with Cenarius. He isn't a pinnacle of creation, he was just a keeper, and sure his parents were significant but ultimately while he's classified as a demi-god he is still just an old and powerful keeper.

Legit video of Grom vs Cenarius, the demigod.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Having a lot of power doesn't mean you automatically win all the time.

[Shadowferal]

Seems to me plenty of chronicle 3 is a mistake.

[TheFirstOnes]

He did, according to Chronicle. That's the topic of this thread.

He got rammed by the other orcs, which weakened him when he battled Grommash, who was also relentless at the time, so...

But sure, I get your points, I guess.

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The video provides a good point. It wasn't just Mannoroth's blood - it was dropped into a Moonwell - waters from the original Well of Eternity, blessed by Elune, and corrupted by a Pit Lord. That's powerful juice.

Yep. Not to mention Mannoroth himself is beefy enough as he was.