Wow Players Want Easy... Easy Runs, Easy Gear

[Argorwal]

I just don't want to have to fight mythic plus 15 bosses in my heroic dungeons, that's all. That's basically what it is when it comes to PvP right now.

Well for most of the games life you had to do rated PvP to get the best PvP gear.

WoD and MoP may have been the only exceptions, the rest limited you to honor gear which got trashed by conquest gear.

And if casuals are the overwhelming majority the forums claim, most of the people you fight would be in same gear and situation as you.

[Tadkins]

Well for most of the games life you had to do rated PvP to get the best PvP gear.

WoD and MoP may have been the only exceptions, the rest limited you to honor gear which got trashed by conquest gear.

As far as I remember, conquest gear was always slowly but surely obtainable even in non-rated PvP. We also used to have resilience on that gear which gave you a fighting chance against folks even in conquest.

I'd be happy if we can just have a return to that, or templates, or bring in ilvl brackets.

[kenn9530]

There are achievements and such associated with WM so it is something that should be open to everyone. Same with random battlegrounds, for the longest time it used to be casual content with gearing options. That is no longer the case.

No one is advocating for the highest ilvl loot, but enough to be able to survive should be in there. You're seriously claiming that I should be trying to mythic raid or become a keystone master just so I can be allowed to play in random battlegrounds.

What is the point of playing if I can't progress? Why would I continue to pay for a game if I'm just going to be beaten up by other players with no chance to fight back?

If you want to PvP why dont you get your rating to at least 1600 and get access to 213 loot, if you cant put in at least that amount of effort you dont deserve anything higher, your wanting to be rewarded for doing the easiest content, 1600 rating mostly requires just time so eventually any player should be able to get that.

At some point every player cant get stronger items anyway, thats not the reason to play WoW and if it is your playing the game the wrong way because your just going to get bored and be dissapointed. There is always a way to progress your character that doesnt involve getting better gear.

Really though... WoW is not rocket surgery... most people can do interrupts and cast spells... it's just comes down to what content they choose to do that in

What's makes interrupting a healer in an arena more special than interrupting a boss during a world quest ?

There is players in mythic raids that cant even interupt or use abilities or even move at the correct times, PvP is about interupting the correct things not just at random, players can bait you into wasting your interupt and stuns, PvE content doesnt do that.

[Tadkins]

And if casuals are the overwhelming majority the forums claim, most of the people you fight would be in same gear and situation as you.

I've never claimed this, none of us can know really for sure. Even if we were the minority though, does that mean we deserve to be crapped on as we are right now?

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If you want to PvP why dont you get your rating to at least 1600 and get access to 213 loot, if you cant put in at least that amount of effort you dont deserve anything higher, your wanting to be rewarded for doing the easiest content, 1600 rating mostly requires just time so eventually any player should be able to get that.

Because rated PvP relies on you having friends that will take you, as well as hyper-coordination to succeed, which I do not have. Random battlegrounds have always been my refuge, and probably the one thing i've consistently enjoyed in this game up until now.

If I'm not going to be able to have a path to progress in the game, what is the point in playing and paying for it? What place do I have here if Blizz and the community are just going to dump on me? I still can't seem to get that answer out of you.

[Argorwal]

I've never claimed this, none of us can know really for sure. Even if we were the minority though, does that mean we deserve to be crapped on as we are right now?

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Because rated PvP relies on you having friends that will take you, as well as hyper-coordination to succeed, which I do not have. Random battlegrounds have always been my refuge, and probably the one thing i've consistently enjoyed in this game up until now.

If I'm not going to be able to have a path to progress in the game, what is the point in playing and paying for it? What place do I have here if Blizz and the community are just going to dump on me? I still can't seem to get that answer out of you.

Random BGs only gave very good gear in 2 expansions out of 8. Usually it was honor gear which was always weaker than conquest.

So, it sounds like for most of the games life it wasn’t working for you, and hasn’t in years, so I’m kinda surprised you are still hanging around this game. There are better options for your playstyle.

[jellmoo]

Have you not looked at the financials, while WoW itself makes a good chuck of money its only about 25% of the companies revenue, its the other sources of income that make most of the money for the company. WoW is not the bread winner for the company anymore.

Are you talking about Blizzard or Activision? For Blizzard, almost all of their revenue is driven by WoW. Everything else, from Diablo to Hearthstone to Overwatch is barely a footnote. For Activision, the only property that is bringing in more money than WoW is CoD. WoW is incredibly, incredibly important to the company.

If blizzard really cared about subs they would focus more on a wider range of quality content, they dont do that and stick to the easy path to making money for the least amount of effort.

Which they have done, they've just done a really poor job of it, especially with itemization and rewards. That's exactly what Warfronts and Island Expeditions were. Casual content for people to engage in. They just made them irrelevant really quickly. Blizzard has a bad habit of making their casual content worthless not long after introducing it. Rewards become worse than what you get in a WQ, and suddenly nobody is doing it. It's a problem.

Your going on about rewards, the player already get rewards with easy access to decent gear, what other rewards do you want and your also wanting to get stronger, which you are unable to do without better gear, if a player never steps into raids or PvP then they wont be able to progress the character in anything but acheivements or other stuff they do ingame.

No, they don't. They hit a wall. Once you gear up from the best WQs and rep grinds have to offer as the game progresses, there's nothing else. When Heroic dungeons, LFR and gimmick game modes give rewards that are lower than what you get in the open world, there is zero reason to engage in those pieces of content.

And again, nobody is talking about better gear than what hardcore people get. Not even as good as the least non-casual. Just incremental improvements to keep them playing. Just something for them to do, with a reward that keeps them engaged and therefore keeps them subscribed.

[baskev]

There is a lot of contention between casual and hardcore player base.... and how our rewards for gameplay should be implemented

Some people say they deserve better gear or better rewards, because they do different content they perceive as being more substantial. In reality though, everyone chooses the path of least resistance, we always choose the easy way.

That's why there is META for mythic dungeons... people want the classes that make the runs easier for them

That's why there is META in Arena... people people want the easiest chance to win

That's why there is class stacking, and guilds choose the OP dejour for Race to World First

In any RPG MMO, the player wants his/her character to feel stronger next week than it did last week.... no matter what content you choose to enjoy.

Blizzard needs to either balance it's classes with equal AOE and single target, or they need to come up with upgrade systems for every style of player, because no one wants to play an mmo and feel like their character is stagnating

Nope , i disagree with you. because those "casuals" are not asking for the exact same gear as mythic raiders or high end m+ people.

They want equal changes. There are certain "bumbs" in gear. Where you slow down with gearing a lot (180) is a example. While people with a lot of time etc can easy grind gear for it. Others can not. RNG is piss poor right now.
And then a system gets put into place for that m+/raiding players. While the rest of us only get valor as a other of the half a dozen currency's in shadowlands we do not use.

Per example with the valor part. They could have give gear etc that can be bought with the remainder of your valor.

And yes we do not want our hero's to stagnate. But a balanced dps on single and AOE.....do you even play wow? each hero has a atleast ( wild guess) 9 to 10 dps skills, 2 or 3 CD etc. Then you face npc's with skills to counter that etc etc. You also need to interrupt npc's. So if 2 paladins are fighting and one does a interrupt he will automaticly miss out on 1 dps cast and will be behind on the other paladin.

I do agree with a meta. There are always meta's in ANY game. And there is always the best hero/class/race/weapon etc to play.


So i short. I do agree the "slow" gear "bumbs" are a bit annoying. But a simple tweak to the valor vendor and it is solved. Or more anima so you can fully upgrade your covnts gear.
But difference in dps etc is part of the game. That is why i am laughing as my main balance druid right now. For once we are on top and you hear all the other classes cry. Justice at last :P

[Tadkins]

Random BGs only gave very good gear in 2 expansions out of 8.

So, it sounds like for most of the games life it wasn’t working for you, and hasn’t in years, so I’m kinda surprised you are still hanging around this game. There are better options for your playstyle.

The gear was always good enough until now. I always had fun and a path to progression until now.

[kenn9530]

I've never claimed this, none of us can know really for sure. Even if we were the minority though, does that mean we deserve to be crapped on as we are right now?

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Because rated PvP relies on you having friends that will take you, as well as hyper-coordination to succeed, which I do not have. Random battlegrounds have always been my refuge, and probably the one thing i've consistently enjoyed in this game up until now.

If I'm not going to be able to have a path to progress in the game, what is the point in playing and paying for it? What place do I have here if Blizz and the community are just going to dump on me? I still can't seem to get that answer out of you.

It doesnt rely on friends make your own group explaining what your doing and similar members will join, normal random BGs wont gear you up much, WoW is a group based game, the game gets far too tedious and boring if your not playing with other ppl, your ignoring the main point in WoW and wanting better rewards for not doing the actual content.

WoW requires you to play with other ppl, if you dont do that then why are you even playing the game at all, and your demanding better gear when you dont even do the appropriate content to earn it, gear is already easy to get with PvP being the fastest way to get powerful gear, random BGs dont really have a purpose.

[Argorwal]

Are you talking about Blizzard or Activision? For Blizzard, almost all of their revenue is driven by WoW. Everything else, from Diablo to Hearthstone to Overwatch is barely a footnote. For Activision, the only property that is bringing in more money than WoW is CoD. WoW is incredibly, incredibly important to the company.



Which they have done, they've just done a really poor job of it, especially with itemization and rewards. That's exactly what Warfronts and Island Expeditions were. Casual content for people to engage in. They just made them irrelevant really quickly. Blizzard has a bad habit of making their casual content worthless not long after introducing it. Rewards become worse than what you get in a WQ, and suddenly nobody is doing it. It's a problem.



No, they don't. They hit a wall. Once you gear up from the best WQs and rep grinds have to offer as the game progresses, there's nothing else. When Heroic dungeons, LFR and gimmick game modes give rewards that are lower than what you get in the open world, there is zero reason to engage in those pieces of content.

And again, nobody is talking about better gear than what hardcore people get. Not even as good as the least non-casual. Just incremental improvements to keep them playing. Just something for them to do, with a reward that keeps them engaged and therefore keeps them subscribed.

Everyone hits a point where they count progress. That is a normal part of the game.

Even the top bleeding edge reaches a point where they have hit a plateau until the next patch.

[Tadkins]

It doesnt rely on friends make your own group explaining what your doing and similar members will join, normal random BGs wont gear you up much, WoW is a group based game, the game gets far too tedious and boring if your not playing with other ppl, your ignoring the main point in WoW and wanting better rewards for not doing the actual content.

WoW requires you to play with other ppl, if you dont do that then why are you even playing the game at all, and your demanding better gear when you dont even do the appropriate content to earn it, gear is already easy to get with PvP being the fastest way to get powerful gear, random BGs dont really have a purpose.

I'm playing with other people in random battlegrounds. I can join in on them without relying on having the right friends online at the right times. If I happen to only be able to get on for an hour at 2am or so, I can still get a chance to play. That was the great thing about them.

The purpose of random battlegrounds was fun, achievements, and gear. I always felt like I had a home there up until now. Now, I don't even thing I can bring myself to sub again until I feel welcome there again.

[kenn9530]

Are you talking about Blizzard or Activision? For Blizzard, almost all of their revenue is driven by WoW. Everything else, from Diablo to Hearthstone to Overwatch is barely a footnote. For Activision, the only property that is bringing in more money than WoW is CoD. WoW is incredibly, incredibly important to the company.



Which they have done, they've just done a really poor job of it, especially with itemization and rewards. That's exactly what Warfronts and Island Expeditions were. Casual content for people to engage in. They just made them irrelevant really quickly. Blizzard has a bad habit of making their casual content worthless not long after introducing it. Rewards become worse than what you get in a WQ, and suddenly nobody is doing it. It's a problem.



No, they don't. They hit a wall. Once you gear up from the best WQs and rep grinds have to offer as the game progresses, there's nothing else. When Heroic dungeons, LFR and gimmick game modes give rewards that are lower than what you get in the open world, there is zero reason to engage in those pieces of content.

And again, nobody is talking about better gear than what hardcore people get. Not even as good as the least non-casual. Just incremental improvements to keep them playing. Just something for them to do, with a reward that keeps them engaged and therefore keeps them subscribed.

Blizzard activision is all one company, WoW still makes a good amount of money but not as much as it has done in the past.

You can also say the same with raiding once its complete what keeps you playing, there is a point in every player where you have done most of the things you want to do, its up to you to unsub or just play the game a little less, better gear rewards are not good enough to keep you playing.

[arr0gance]

Why do you people act like data is such a "Guarded Secret"?? Everyone/Anyone can look up quarterly earnings, Everyone/Anyone can correlate, collect, and condense "data".
You don't have to BE Wal-Mart to know Wal-Mart was killin it. You don't have the BE Gamestop to see the shit tank.
Just because you don't know how, doesn't mean no one else does.
Aaaand let's not forget, last but not least, EVEN WITH all the "data" any given company "gets more of" than someone else, they STILL make WRONG/BAD business decisions.

The both of you are as bad as a welfare mother clamoring for more Gov. control because you think it'll mean more $$. Hop off the Blizz-D.

YUP.

Good to know that "bad business decisions" are casually defined by you, dude on the internet. Tell us more about managing billion dollar companies, would you?

[kenn9530]

I'm playing with other people in random battlegrounds. I can join in on them without relying on having the right friends online at the right times. If I happen to only be able to get on for an hour at 2am or so, I can still get a chance to play. That was the great thing about them.

The purpose of random battlegrounds was fun, achievements, and gear. I always felt like I had a home there up until now. Now, I don't even thing I can bring myself to sub again until I feel welcome there again.

Your not playing with ppl your actually talking to, just randoms that might not even have a clue on what to do, if you want at least heroic raid level gear either get 1600 rating or do the raid, but even if you had that gear you would still be complaining that gear is not enough, and then when you have max gear the skill players will still walking all over you.

[Toby451]

It used to be a very engaging game and I almost always had something to do.

Like what? Please give an example. I can't think of a single piece of content I used to do in expansions past that would be considered fun or engaging that has been cut from the game.

[Frozenbro]

Pretty much this.

It’s been happening since forever, is a normal way to play video games.

Playing the same game for years with no breaks sounds awful.

This is perfectly normal, playing a game and taking breaks i mean, thats pretty much what most people in my guild do, finish a tier, then take a wow break till next tier, the only thought about raiding all those months straight each tier gives me chills.

[Kaver]

This post reminds me of this LFG comic:

It’s funny cause it’s true.

[Orwell7]

You all need to step a bit further, to see some "bigger" picture.

See, the game has an ambigous experience with PvE content. No "bridges" that teaches you each and every dungeon, each and every pack. You have a combat simulator sandbox, where the devs put 8 dungeons and a raid in. That's it, nothing more.
Blizzard made this game in a way where gear ABSOLUTELY matters, maybe even more than before. I don't remember any tier where my dps quadrupled (!) across a SINGLE tier. And it does from 184 (m0) to 226!

It's just too much of a difference.

You know why people loved classic, tbc and wotlk? Because the POWER ratio of "casual" and "cutting edge" GEAR-WISE was a lot less! Str/agi/int scaling on items and dps-numbers is trough the roof.
And this is why you had upgrades from a lot of places - if you had X ilvl, you could get some side-upgrades which could even have a lesser ilvl, but better stat allocation!
And this is why SKILL mattered more. Gear didn't help you this much - or, you didn't NEEDED that much gear.

Because frankly, the risk/reward ratio is off, too. Why the f--- should I bang my head in a wall for miniscule upgrades? The great vault has THE only meaningful progression power increase for PvE-only players!
And this is toxic - the dungeons and raids need to be tuned accounting for this. And this is why people need to spend 300 million(?) gold to get world first. Because gear matters a lot more.
Basically they made the "starter" m0 gear absolutely zero compared to even heroic ilvls, not alone mythic... And the top end, omg. I've got more dps going from 217->223 than 205->217! WTF is happening?!


Another point: you've had some accomplishment. Heroic 5-mans could be entered daily. You could farm them daily, but not more! If you didn't have a drop, you can do it tomorrow. But grinding the same instance for 40+ times in a day? That shit kills your soul, even if you get your trinket.

[Tadkins]

Your not playing with ppl your actually talking to, just randoms that might not even have a clue on what to do, if you want at least heroic raid level gear either get 1600 rating or do the raid, but even if you had that gear you would still be complaining that gear is not enough, and then when you have max gear the skill players will still walking all over you.

Who says I'm not talking to people in random battlegrounds? The only difference is that there's no gatekeeping and none of those people can tell me I'm not allowed to join.

And no, I've always been happy with the honor gear and slow conquest gear I've always been able to earn. I know it was never as good as the highest level raiders or gladiator level players, but it was always good enough to give me a fighting chance, and a lot of the time a lost fight was a matter of skill. I could at least survive long enough to learn something about why I lost and do better next time. Now? There is no chance, no opportunity to fight back or to learn. My sub-200 geared player is never going to beat a 226 mythic plus champion, and that's just fighting with the opposite faction. I'm also fighting against my own faction complaining and raging that "this undergeared shlub" is taking up a slot in their random BG.

Like what? Please give an example. I can't think of a single piece of content I used to do in expansions past that would be considered fun or engaging that has been cut from the game.

I used to have a home in doing random battlegrounds. Now, that path is effectively blocked to me, without a path to progression, unless I enjoyed getting stomped on all day. At that point my best hope is that the ones giving the beatings are all female characters wearing black leather transmogs, lol.

[Glorious Leader]

, blizz are not good at delivering long term casual content.

Because they choose not to. Not because of some iron law. The game could be more rewarding and casual friendly but the cost would basically mean sacrificing the experience for the upper crust of players