{TV} The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[SavoirFaire]

My only concern is having to contrive action scenes where the obvious result is our heroes being bullet ridden corpses, but aren’t. In Mandalorian perhaps one could say most of these people who were shooting were untrained empire draftees etc. big bad guy organization you’d think the first qualification would be to hit a target with an automatic weapon.

[exochaft]

My only concern is having to contrive action scenes where the obvious result is our heroes being bullet ridden corpses, but aren’t. In Mandalorian perhaps one could say most of these people who were shooting were untrained empire draftees etc. big bad guy organization you’d think the first qualification would be to hit a target with an automatic weapon.

I feel you on this one. Mando's armor was the physical incarnation of plot armor, causing all gun-wielding foes to decide to rush in and melee, blaster bolts to bend into the tiny parts of armor, etc. A less tongue-in-cheek way to view this is having peoples actions/behaviors not being consistent in order to serve the plot and make the story happen... and that's how you get almost 2 full seasons of Stormtrooper shots missing by a mile, then get another scene where a volley of shots hits every target w/o missing a single shot.

While that's not a Marvel property, similar minds work on both IP's. Wandavision isn't helping things, as the series started off strong and interesting, then devolved into mostly garbage contrivances and non sequitur behavior that puts The Mandalorian and WW84 to shame. My only morbid curiosity is if this series will have another human rights catastrophe caused by the heroes that gets passed over and ignored for reasons. Alright, I'm also curious how they're going to have Falcon actually use Capt's shield to any effect w/o interfering with his current gear/suit and being a complete normie by superhero standards, because at least the Winter Soldier has the legit ability to throw/wield the shield and would be a much better successor.

[formerShandalay]

I did, but it returned a lot of results like: "early episode 1 reviews", so I was wondering if they did a sneaky weekend release or something.

They did show the first episode to some people and they were seemingly allowed to say some words on it, but not a whole review and especially no spoilers.

From what I've heard the first episode is a lot of fun, but all the things that were shown in the latest trailers are not in the first episode.

[eschatological]

I do wonder if the aim of this series is to "power up" these two heroes, as the Avengers move into a phase where they'll be fighting cosmic and multi-versal threats. I remember even in Endgame, during the climactic end battle, I almost laughed out loud when they did a quick cut to Bucky firing a gun in the middle of the battlefield.

1. Will Falcon get the Super Soldier serum by the end of this series?
2. Will Bucky get any sort of enhancement beyond his arm, or explore the power his arm can have (sort of like Jax in MK, as an idea)?

I'm worried because this show is a 6 episode one-off as far as I know, and that implies to me it's gonna be about movie length, but not really compelling enough to be a movie, just a series of side adventures.

One thing I was discussing with my d&d group the other day was - who is going to be the "leader" of the new Avengers? Danvers fucks off to space too much, Falcon is literally just a normal dude using borrowed tech (like War Machine, but even worse tech) and a vibranium shield, Bucky has too much baggage to be the face of the group. Is Dr. Strange the leader of these new Avengers? Maybe Bruce Banner?

[segara82]

One thing I was discussing with my d&d group the other day was - who is going to be the "leader" of the new Avengers? Danvers fucks off to space too much, Falcon is literally just a normal dude using borrowed tech (like War Machine, but even worse tech) and a vibranium shield, Bucky has too much baggage to be the face of the group. Is Dr. Strange the leader of these new Avengers? Maybe Bruce Banner?

I was under the impression that the studio wants Spider-Man would step up. He already has Tony Starks blessing and technology, now he needs to grow up a bit more in No Way Home to be the next leader.

[RobertoCarlos]

I was under the impression that the studio wants Spider-Man would step up. He already has Tony Starks blessing and technology, now he needs to grow up a bit more in No Way Home to be the next leader.

ehh...spider-man is a kid. And Sony own the rights. So I doubt Disney is in a hurry to put even more eggs in that basket and be at the whim of sony.

They dont really even need a leader. Theres so many films/shows which center around a few characters at a time. Its gonna be rare to have the "all avengers" films where they have to pay buckets in actors wages.

Spread it all out, do every genre, have a comedy, have a horror, have an action, have an office style mockomentary

Then when thats starting to run dry start a what if movie where all bets are off and you can do whatever story you want. Antman turns into Jim Carrey and we get a Jim Carrey as an Ant movie once the well is run dry.

[Ophenia]

One thing I was discussing with my d&d group the other day was - who is going to be the "leader" of the new Avengers? Danvers fucks off to space too much, Falcon is literally just a normal dude using borrowed tech (like War Machine, but even worse tech) and a vibranium shield, Bucky has too much baggage to be the face of the group. Is Dr. Strange the leader of these new Avengers? Maybe Bruce Banner?

Would make sense that Strange will be that guy. He fits every single criteria to be the leader, power, wisdom, and he even has a base, which is an important point.

[Ausr]

Would make sense that Strange will be that guy. He fits every single criteria to be the leader, power, wisdom, and he even has a base, which is an important point.

I believe that was a leaked rumor that they would have Dr. Strange as the leader of the newer Avengers.

[SavoirFaire]

I do wonder if the aim of this series is to "power up" these two heroes

I was thinking the same thing. If you have a power scale you have 8-10 range heroes (like thor, strange, Danvers), and you have 1-3 (Hawkeye, widow, falcon, all the GotG). Sure there are a few I’d put into midrange like Spider-Man, potentially ant man, but by and large it’s gods and normal mooks. The mooks should have all died to thanos’ army of endless monsters, but of course the good guys only lost 1 noted hero in that battle. Much like the Mandalorian, the longer tropes get used by Marvel, the more annoyed people will get. If you don’t power up the heroes then them being around becomes more absurd as the stakes get higher.

Would love to see a scene where ant man is trying to sell everyone on how cool ant man tech is, and everyone just dissing him because people really want iron man tech like that stupid kid from queens has.

[RobertoCarlos]

I was thinking the same thing. If you have a power scale you have 8-10 range heroes (like thor, strange, Danvers), and you have 1-3 (Hawkeye, widow, falcon, all the GotG). Sure there are a few I’d put into midrange like Spider-Man, potentially ant man, but by and large it’s gods and normal mooks. The mooks should have all died to thanos’ army of endless monsters, but of course the good guys only lost 1 noted hero in that battle. Much like the Mandalorian, the longer tropes get used by Marvel, the more annoyed people will get. If you don’t power up the heroes then them being around becomes more absurd as the stakes get higher.

Would love to see a scene where ant man is trying to sell everyone on how cool ant man tech is, and everyone just dissing him because people really want iron man tech like that stupid kid from queens has.

Rocket raccoon isn't far from iron man levels of power.

Space tech is a pretty loose definition of a power. He can just make grenades that clear out rooms no sweat

Also marvel having more human heroes is good for story telling. DC has the whole gods on earth thing and its easily more relatable to make an ironman film or hawk eye series than making a good superman film where the protagonist can destroy planets if they wanted

[PACOX]

Rocket raccoon isn't far from iron man levels of power.

Space tech is a pretty loose definition of a power. He can just make grenades that clear out rooms no sweat

Also marvel having more human heroes is good for story telling. DC has the whole gods on earth thing and its easily more relatable to make an ironman film or hawk eye series than making a good superman film where the protagonist can destroy planets if they wanted

Let's be honest. The only reason why the MCU featured all the unpowered human characters was because they didn't have the movie rights to a lot of the (recognizable) shiny powered heroes.

[RobertoCarlos]

Let's be honest. The only reason why the MCU featured all the unpowered human characters was because they didn't have the movie rights to a lot of the (recognizable) shiny powered heroes.

Actually it all started with market research and putting all the toys of marvel characters in a room for kids to play with and most picked out ironman.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Let's be honest. The only reason why the MCU featured all the unpowered human characters was because they didn't have the movie rights to a lot of the (recognizable) shiny powered heroes.

They didn't have the movie rights to their 3 most recognizable franchises...that part is true. But Phase 1 does have the Holy Trinity of the Avengers (Cap, Iron Man, and Thor) + the Hulk. The "unpowered human characters" (Black Widow and Hawkeye) are there as a value add. They are two of the most iconic Avengers and they were easy to throw in because neither really requires much in the way of an origin story.

[Syegfryed]

So, does the Falcon get the super soldier juice? cause he using the shield makes look like he does get.

If he don't, well, i don't think he can be rly on pair with the captain america, personally

but so far, seeing the trailers, seem is going to be good.

[Ausr]

So, does the Falcon get the super soldier juice? cause he using the shield makes look like he does get.

If he don't, well, i don't think he can be rly on pair with the captain america, personally

but so far, seeing the trailers, seem is going to be good.

No. He's still a regular, highly trained man. All the trailers of him throwing it has his whole body going into a toss and catch unlike Cap.

[Ayirasi]

Off to a pretty good start. More, please.

[s_bushido]

Yeah, it was a good first episode. That opening action scene with Falcon was pretty great. They've really given characters like him and Captain America (who could have otherwise been boring as hell) impressive fight scenes.

I'm sure this "picking up the pieces after the blip" stuff will get old at some point if they continue doing it like this, but it's still hitting pretty good for now. Not a fan of the extreme close-ups, though. Hope they cut back on that...



Is it too early to call that this new Cap comes from the same stock as the enhanced terrorists?

[Endus]

Yeah, it was a good first episode. That opening action scene with Falcon was pretty great. They've really given characters like him and Captain America (who could have otherwise been boring as hell) impressive fight scenes.

They sure made it clear that Sam really doesn't have many qualms about killing people, unlike Steve. Sure, they were clearly bad guys, but Sam was pretty quick to kick people out of the plane or slam them into canyon walls and let them fall hundreds of feet to their deaths (assumedly, at least; a normal human would die and he had no reason to believe they were anything but).

Not a criticism, but it's an interesting repeated note to hit in that opener.

If anything, paired against Bucky's clear self-torture over actions he wasn't truly even responsible for, I'm betting it's something that's gonna bite Sam in the ass before this show's over.

I'm sure this "picking up the pieces after the blip" stuff will get old at some point if they continue doing it like this, but it's still hitting pretty good for now.

IIRC, all of these Disney+ shows are basically timeline-concurrent, occurring weeks after the un-blippening. So obviously, it's going to be a factor they mention at the start, especially for characters (Monica, Sam) who were themselves blipped away and came back.

They didn't focus on it in Wandavision, and I doubt they will here or elsewhere, either. It's mostly (I think) a grounding tool to set all these stories in the same general aftermath, but with different genre stylings. Wandavision was patterned on sitcoms, I assume this'll be a buddy-cop thing, and She-Hulk will be a legal drama.

Is it too early to call that this new Cap comes from the same stock as the enhanced terrorists?

Honestly, I don't even think he's supposed to be powered. I think they're trying to reboot the propaganda tool side of Cap's origin, not the hero side. The hero side has been a continuous thorn in the government's side, if one they found a way to capitalize on somewhat.

[s_bushido]

They sure made it clear that Sam really doesn't have many qualms about killing people, unlike Steve. Sure, they were clearly bad guys, but Sam was pretty quick to kick people out of the plane or slam them into canyon walls and let them fall hundreds of feet to their deaths (assumedly, at least; a normal human would die and he had no reason to believe they were anything but).

eh? The only time I remember Steve being concerned about not killing was when he and Bucky were fighting the police/agents who were just doing their jobs (apprehending Bucky, who they thought was a terrorist that had just blown up the UN). Otherwise, I don't think I've ever seen him have qualms about lethal violence. They're soldiers. Not Superman.



How well do you think the guys he's throwing around like ragdolls are feeling after that? And I mean...he literally thanks Rumlow for killing the guy that had a gun on him.

[Jotaux]

The MCU hasn't really been concerned about killing people. The thing to remember is Cap is ultimately a soldier, who knows how big his body count is. It's by far a bigger deal with a character like Batman who has mountains of stories about how he doesn't kill.