Making flying better

[rrayy]

It's not a compromise, it's a gun to the head.

Anti-flyers manages to force everyone to the ground for half the time, while pro-flyers gain absolutely NOTHING..

YOu still get your flying later in the expansion. You way means the no-flyers get nothing. You absolutely do get something, but you don't count it because it isn't 100% exactly the way you want it.

[Sondrelk]

Yes. You want to gimp flying so much to the point that it's no longer worth using and just becomes a glorified flight path. That's like 5 degrees away from removal and plenty of people don't consider that to be "working better."

Again, I am willing to discuss any change to how flying works because what I want is relly for it to not work like it currently does.

I am willing to have it be removed. I am willing to have it move slower. I am willing to have mobs hat dismount you.

We could have a version of flying that takes skill and is fun and rewarding to use, and instead we have this abomination of flying where you move completely unhindered without care for momentum or gravity or even basic mechanics of flight like not being able to reverse a plane.
Why can't we have a system that requires finding updrafts scattered around the zone to gain height, or one that allowss for a simulacrum of momentum to give players that feeling of actually flying.
Why do we have to settle for this version fo flying?!

[rrayy]

Pathfinder is the compromise.

No-flyers get a bunch of time on the ground (plus a lot of new stuff added like Korthia, Argus, etc. tends to be nofly permanently)

Pro-flyers get flying after spending a while on the ground exploring the zones, doing the main storylines and grinding the zones' associated reps to revered.

I know that is the compomise, but there are a few in this thread that are still demanding flight immediately. That is who I want to see compromise from.

[FuxieDK]

My point is, it's already some form of middleground for both camps between removing flying and having it freely and instantly. I'm not arguing its merits.

My point is more that you can't take the initial compromise, and then keep enforcing compromises until you have entirely what you want. In these terms, you can't push another compromise leaning to the anti-flying side after already getting pathfinder all the way until you've compromised your way to getting entirely what you want, which is flying either gimped beyond being useful or removed outright.

A compromise = Both side loose something and gain something.

With current model, Anti-flyers gain something and loose nothing, while pro-flyers loose something and gain nothing.

Ergo, it's not a compromise, it's an ultimatum.

[GreatNameForSmurfingExTee]

Funny how op claims that people seem to ignore the playerbase but he ignores them...

[FuxieDK]

YOu still get your flying later in the expansion. You way means the no-flyers get nothing. You absolutely do get something, but you don't count it because it isn't 100% exactly the way you want it.

I get to fly, when I don't need it anymore. Tell me, how I get something.

[Sondrelk]

I get to fly, when I don't need it anymore. Tell me, how I get something.

Because yoiu get flying forever from that point on in that area. You get t oignore all the conteont you want in that area going forward while those that want the open world content gets to eat shit as the zones will never be the same again now that those who hate the open world have gotten their way.

[FuxieDK]

Because yoiu get flying forever from that point on in that area. You get t oignore all the conteont you want in that area going forward while those that want the open world content gets to eat shit as the zones will never be the same again now that those who hate the open world have gotten their way.

It doesn't matter, when content have moved on to new zones, that (if it follows the path of the last 3 expansions) doesn't allow flying.

[Sondrelk]

It doesn't matter, when content have moved on to new zones, that (if it follows the path of the last 3 expansions) doesn't allow flying.

So in that case this new compromise I am offering is actually a better one since the pro-opem world players have to sacrifice something as well?
Seems like you agree then.

[rrayy]

I get to fly, when I don't need it anymore. Tell me, how I get something.

Because you get to fly over everything all you want and ignore anything you want. Pathfinder give the no flyers what they want for a time and you still get to fly over everything and ignore it all in the end.

[HateTrain]

Yes. You want to gimp flying so much to the point that it's no longer worth using and just becomes a glorified flight path. That's like 5 degrees away from removal and plenty of people don't consider that to be "working better."

Pretty much exactly. It's just bullshit concern trolling, wasting time.

[arkanon]

Fun thing you mentioned all of those. Because you know it just so happens to be exactly what flying invalidates.

All of those mechanics, conveniently passed on in favor of flying, a mechanic given to everyone with minimal to no effort and requiring no skill to use.

How does flying allow you to sneak through a dungeon / castle / densely packed mobs?
How does flying allow you to go from zone to zone in SL? or BfA for that matter.
How does flying allow you to instantly travel from SW to Shat?
How does flying allow you to instantly return from anywhere in the world to a location of your choosing?
How does flying allow you to access the high ground WHILE IN COMBAT x 3
How does flying allow you to summon up to 38 other players instantly to your location?

How does a flight point require skill?
How does clicking a portal require skill?
How does clicking a lock portal require skill?
How does clicking a summoning stone require skill?

You are wrong on literally every single point.

[FuxieDK]

Because you get to fly over everything all you want and ignore anything you want. Pathfinder give the no flyers what they want for a time and you still get to fly over everything and ignore it all in the end.

Anti-flyers can stay on the ground 100% of the time, if they prefer; they don't have the right to force everyone else to stay down there with them.

A Compromise would be, no flying for a period, followed by a time of forced flying.

[CalamityHeart]

We could have a version of flying that takes skill and is fun and rewarding to use, and instead we have this abomination of flying where you move completely unhindered without care for momentum or gravity or even basic mechanics of flight like not being able to reverse a plane.
Why can't we have a system that requires finding updrafts scattered around the zone to gain height, or one that allowss for a simulacrum of momentum to give players that feeling of actually flying.
Why do we have to settle for this version fo flying?!

Because there is no reason for flying to take skill, in the same way that there's no reason why you shouldn't have to alternate pressing two keys to move one leg at a time when you're making your character walk. In a game where flying mechanics are actually a major part of the core gameplay? Sure, it deserves to be interesting and to have those kind of skillful mechanics. But that's not what flying is in WoW, nor is it what it should be. Flying is just movement. Faster, more efficient movement. It's already as rewarding as it's going to be. Making it less efficient and intuitive will only make it less fun and rewarding.

[kenn9530]

We have puzzles though, just becausse they are not massively in-depth doesnt mean they don't exist. The giant mushrooms in Maldraxxus are still deigned around the idea that at best you can cheese them by jumping with a goblin glider from a vantage point. The Stoneborn satchels in Revendreth still require a knowledge of game mechanics to get to. The faerie stashes in Ardenweald are still there requiring a tiny amount of effort.

Again, if the solution to flying being OP is to remove flying then the solution really should be to nerf flying in such a way that it can be added without caveats.

Mounts are your choice to fly or not, asking to limit it is beyond stupid, the puzzles in WoW are pathetic and i already presented a solution that flying wouldnt even effect doing them anyway, you have no valid reason to claim flying is OP, the whole point in flying mounts is players have a choice in what content they do and are able to get to that content much faster, so everything you suggest about restricting flying is plain stupid for a system that has been in place since TBC where you spent a ton of time earning the ability to fly.

Flying actually would make players do world content more because they can get to it faster, atm i ignore most of it because its not worth wasting any time on it.

[Sondrelk]

Because there is no reason for flying to take skill, in the same way that there's no reason why you shouldn't have to alternate pressing two keys to move one leg at a time when you're making your character walk. In a game where flying mechanics are actually a major part of the core gameplay? Sure, it deserves to be interesting and to have those kind of skillful mechanics. But that's not what flying is in WoW, nor is it what it should be. Flying is just movement. Faster, more efficient movement. It's already as rewarding as it's going to be. Making it less efficient and intuitive will only make it less fun and rewarding.

Why shouldn't it take a level of skill?
It doesn't need to take large amounts of skill, just around the baseline required for all the other content in the game.
Even ground mounts require more skill. It requires knowledge of how to navigate landscape, you can learn tricks on how to make it move better, you can use it in creative ways.

With flying you press the button and you have full and complete 3D movements with no caveats. Can't it at least take a similar amount of skill required to know how to use disengage creatively as a hunter?

[FuxieDK]

So in that case this new compromise I am offering is actually a better one since the pro-opem world players have to sacrifice something as well?
Seems like you agree then.

In no way, since I cannot mount up when and where I want.

[Silara]

This...

People like this are cancer. They contribute to making the game worse.

its a damn shame that people who lack self control have to ruin things for everyone else.

I was pointing out that the people who want no flying in the game and are intent on forcing it on everyone else are part of the actual cancel culture. I guess I needed the "/s for sarcasm". I am NOT, nor was I ever in that camp. I am firmly in the flying camp, borderline #noflyingnosub camp. I only came back for Shadowlands because they said they wouldn't hold off on putting flying in until the end of the expansion. Otherwise, I'd probably still be unsubbed.

[Argorwal]

Even if you are super pro flying, using the argument that players should just not use it and gimp themselves is comical.

Blizz actually did this with raiding. The ICC and DS buff/debuff that you “could” turn off with no gain other than it is now harder if you want it harder.

And nobody did (besides paragon, once, just to see IF they could) because why would you gimp yourself?

[Epicawesomestmaximus]

Flying is better. Deal with it. If you want to stay on the ground then don't fly, but it's insanely ludicrous to require the rest of the flying crowd to stay there with you. If WM just made it impossible to fly then that would probably shut up the ground crew but that's also an imbecilic measure.