Valor points capped at 5k

[Alroxas]

but its timegated not just into months, but years for a full gear set.

Really don't understand why people think it's logical to upgrade an ilv 184 all the way to ilv 220. If you've unlocked the cap of ilv 220 (aka achieved KSM), you're only going to be upgrading from dungeons from around the +10 to +15 range. Even if BiS dropped from a +2 that you were spamming for valor, a comparison of amount of time it takes to upgrade versus running that same dungeon at a higher ilv to skip the lower upgrades will clearly show that later is a better use of time (and resources).

Similarly for alts, you might spend some early valor to upgrade a nice BiS ring/necklace or even trinket because their cost is lower but it would be a hard sell to spend valor on a 2H even if it was BiS. The time cost may not be worth it and it's up to individual players to decide for themselves.

Or would you rather have a system with less flexibility?

[Wavebossa]

So the first week of valor has officially came to an end.

I wonder how many people complaining about the cap being too low were actually able to cap valor on all their chars?

I didn't get 5k valor combined on all my chars, let alone on each one. Probably got closer to 2.5-3k total

[Ange]

Or would you rather have a system with less flexibility?

The VALOR system is the mirror to the PVP system and its hard capped at 1800 PVP rating.

Right now we are comparing a earned/one-time-1800-boost (RBG or ARENA) with solo honor farming versus the current VALOR implementation. Not only is the PVP gear better at 220 from the ZERO-LUCK-NPC-GEAR compared to the low drops in dungeons/pve in general, but its also not punishing weapon upgrades with extreme high cost.

The gearing between 1800-pvp vs 220 12/12-pve is not even comperable, even though its for the same category in difficulty. While you can just full gear a char with 220 pvp gear doing casual honor activities, you are facing 76 weeks of time-gating with the same casual activity in pve.

I don't see it tunned correctly, gearing in a few days and gearing in 1.5 years is not even close, no matter what outlier use-case you make out of it.

[Lathspell]

Yes, and people still brought up the argument that if you spend badges on the wrong item you wasted tons of time that you previously farmed for naught. That time is still gone and wasted... As is the nature of currency systems that's mixed with RNG loot. Anything that you can ever spend on anything can be dropped the next day if you are luck/unlucky. That people are "surprised" by this is what is interesting to me...

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Cool I can agree with that, it's however different from the original quote where you just complained upgrading lower ilvl items is a waste of currency than upgrading from higher ilvl...which is just an obvious statement.

How would it be if you had to use conquest to upgrade your conquest items? You would have to get lucky with the vault first and then carefully choose which item you upgrade, because you can only get like 2 high ilvl pieces with conquest. Others you need to get by lucking out on the vault. That would be like the valor point system.

It makes no sense when they actually made honor the upgrade currency and there is not even a daily cap on it. Why is it ok to spam random bg:s to upgrade conquest gear to 226 even, when it's not ok to spam +2 for valor and 220 items? Maybe they should only give honor in rated pvp at your highest rating. Have it be capped at 12000 per season too.

[Argorwal]

How would it be if you had to use conquest to upgrade your conquest items? You would have to get lucky with the vault first and then carefully choose which item you upgrade, because you can only get like 2 high ilvl pieces with conquest. Others you need to get by lucking out on the vault. That would be like the valor point system.

It makes no sense when they actually made honor the upgrade currency and there is not even a daily cap on it. Why is it ok to spam random bg:s to upgrade conquest gear to 226 even, when it's not ok to spam +2 for valor and 220 items? Maybe they should only give honor in rated pvp at your highest rating. Have it be capped at 12000 per season too.

PvP gear acquisition has a hard time gate and upgrading does not.

Mythic+ upgrading has a hard time gate and gear acquisition does not.

They are more the inverse of each other.

It would also be really stuipid if someone is capable of timing 15s to have the best way to play is farm +2s fast for items to upgrade (not just bulk valor farm because of the initial high cap).

[Lathspell]

PvP gear acquisition has a hard time gate and upgrading does not.

Mythic+ upgrading has a hard time gate and gear acquisition does not.

They are more the inverse of each other.

It would also be really stuipid if someone is capable of timing 15s to have the best way to play is farm +2s fast for items to upgrade (not just bulk valor farm because of the initial high cap).

Again easily solved by just giving more valor for 15. I would say with current prices 100 valor for +2 and 1500 for 15. Then scale the upgrade costs to give you the relevant ilvl upgrade for each key level once per 5 keys. 500 for 194-197 or whatever and 210-213 7500 etc. Remove valor cap. Profit.

[Argorwal]

Again easily solved by just giving more valor for 15. I would say with current prices 100 valor for +2 and 1500 for 15. Then scale the upgrade costs to give you the relevant ilvl upgrade for each key level once per 5 keys. 500 for 194-197 or whatever and 210-213 7500 etc. Remove valor cap. Profit.

So, almost the same except again high players are encouraged to fish upgrades in low keys because how fast they can run them and pump them to moderate levels for relatively low valor amounts?

Right now it’s equal for players no matter if they are timing 2s, 7s, 10s, or 15s.

You want to farm the highest key you can, and then with cams or upgrade those drops 3-10ish item levels with valor.

Same number of dungeon runs to upgrade.

Same number of dungeon runs for everyone.

[Niwes]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-905/256796/17

i am not sure if this answers all my questions ?

lets say i collect 5750 (5000 in the first week, 750 this week):

- when i spend 2000 of the 5750, can i collect and spend 2000 again (to fill my 3750 again up to 5750) ? lets say 750 (or whatever the increasing cap is) next week and 750 (or whatever the increasing cap is) the week after next week and so on, until i have again 2000 collected ?

- or can i just spend whatever the max is (6500 or whatever) and can not collect VP again and not spend more than that ?

- does this system mean when i spent 5000 today, i can just collect and spend 750 next week and just collect and spend 750 the week after next week ?

- what if i collect 2000, spend 2000, collect 2000, spend 2000, collect 2000 and spend 2000 in one week (theoretically) ? this way i never was above lets say 5000 points, but spent 6000, in one week? if 5000 is the „spend“-cap, where do i see this???

i NEVER in my life, after 15 years of uninterrupted WoW gaming, read such shitty texts like that 2-3 posts from Blizzard. i find that posts so fukin obscure.

[Jotaux]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-905/256796/17

i am not sure if this answers all my questions ?

lets say i collect 5750 (5000 in the first week, 750 this week):

- when i spend 2000 of the 5750, can i collect and spend 2000 again (to fill my 3750 again up to 5750) ? lets say 750 (or whatever the increasing cap is) next week and 750 (or whatever the increasing cap is) the week after next week and so on, until i have again 2000 collected ?

- or can i just spend whatever the max is (6500 or whatever) and can not collect VP again and not spend more than that ?

- does this system mean when i spent 5000 today, i can just collect and spend 750 next week and just collect and spend 750 the week after next week ?

- what if i collect 2000, spend 2000, collect 2000, spend 2000, collect 2000 and spend 2000 in one week (theoretically) ? this way i never was above lets say 5000 points, but spent 6000, in one week? if 5000 is the „spend“-cap, where do i see this???

i NEVER in my life, after 15 years of uninterrupted WoW gaming, read such shitty texts like that 2-3 posts from Blizzard. i find that posts so fukin obscure.

It’s just the same way conquest works...

[ellieg]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-905/256796/17

i am not sure if this answers all my questions ?

lets say i collect 5750 (5000 in the first week, 750 this week):

- when i spend 2000 of the 5750, can i collect and spend 2000 again (to fill my 3750 again up to 5750) ? lets say 750 (or whatever the increasing cap is) next week and 750 (or whatever the increasing cap is) the week after next week and so on, until i have again 2000 collected ?

- or can i just spend whatever the max is (6500 or whatever) and can not collect VP again and not spend more than that ?

- does this system mean when i spent 5000 today, i can just collect and spend 750 next week and just collect and spend 750 the week after next week ?

- what if i collect 2000, spend 2000, collect 2000, spend 2000, collect 2000 and spend 2000 in one week (theoretically) ? this way i never was above lets say 5000 points, but spent 6000, in one week? if 5000 is the „spend“-cap, where do i see this???

i NEVER in my life, after 15 years of uninterrupted WoW gaming, read such shitty texts like that 2-3 posts from Blizzard. i find that posts so fukin obscure.

No. You can earn 5750. Doesn't matter if u spend. Can not re earn them. If you collect 5750, spend 2000 to drop to 3750, you cannot earn anymore. Until next week. Next week yiu can earn 750 more

[Niwes]

No. You can earn 5750. Doesn't matter if u spend. Can not re earn them. If you collect 5750, spend 2000 to drop to 3750, you cannot earn anymore. Until next week. Next week yiu can earn 750 more

ok, does this mean, given the example that every week the cap is raised by 750:

if the season takes in example 11 weeks (and we are in week1), i could spend now my 5000 VP and have 10 weeks left where i can

- either collect AND spend 750 VP every week (but nothing more in that week)
- or collect a total of 7500 (if this would be the cap of the last/10th week) over 10 weeks (every week 750 without spending) and spend 7500 in the 10th week

right?

and where is the UI, i see how much i spent this week ? i do not get how the UI should work here, that is actually solely showing in example at the moment 2463/5000 VP. i mean: you say you can collect max 5750. so there will be a time (while collecting) where i collected 3000 and not spent any points yet. actual UI shows 3000/5000. after a while i have collected 5000 and still 0 spent -> UI shows 5000/5000. now i spend 2000. UI shows 3000/5000. how can someone differ between first (3000/5000) and last (3000/5000) state of the UI ? in short: how do i see if i reached the cap and just have 3000 left to spend, or if i just collected 3000 at the moment, without spending them yet ???

i not REALLY understand that strange system fully...

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So, almost the same except again high players are encouraged to fish upgrades in low keys because how fast they can run them and pump them to moderate levels for relatively low valor amounts?

Right now it’s equal for players no matter if they are timing 2s, 7s, 10s, or 15s.

You want to farm the highest key you can, and then with cams or upgrade those drops 3-10ish item levels with valor.

Same number of dungeon runs to upgrade.

Same number of dungeon runs for everyone.

if i understand that system right, the best thing a high key player can do is:

- run +15 keys until getting BiS item (best sec stats)
- now run +2 to pump Valor up
- update BiS item with VP to max

right ?

but doesnt this mean, that no one will ever

- spend VP ever before having a high m+15 BiS item ?
- go anything than +2 to farm VP quickly (after BiS is earned in +15) ?

if so, does this not make that system a big pile of SHIAAAAAT ?

[Argorwal]

ok, does this mean, given the example that every week the cap is raised by 750:

if the season takes in example 11 weeks (and we are in week1), i could spend now my 5000 VP and have 10 weeks left where i can

- either collect AND spend 750 VP every week (but nothing more in that week)
- or collect a total of 7500 (if this would be the cap of the last/10th week) over 10 weeks (every week 750 without spending) and spend 7500 in the 10th week

right?

and where is the UI, i see how much i spent this week ? i do not get how the UI should work here, that is actually solely showing in example at the moment 2463/5000 VP. i mean: you say you can collect max 5750. so there will be a time (while collecting) where i collected 3000 and not spent any points yet. actual UI shows 3000/5000. after a while i have collected 5000 and still 0 spent -> UI shows 5000/5000. now i spend 2000. UI shows 3000/5000. how can someone differ between first (3000/5000) and last (3000/5000) state of the UI ? in short: how do i see if i reached the cap and just have 3000 left to spend, or if i just collected 3000 at the moment, without spending them yet ???

i not REALLY understand that strange system fully...

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if i understand that system right, the best thing a high key player can do is:

- run +15 keys until getting BiS item (best sec stats)
- now run +2 to pump Valor up
- update BiS item with VP to max

right ?

but does this not mean, that no one will ever

- spend VP ever before having a high m+15 BiS item ?
- go anything than +2 to farm VP quickly (after BiS is earned in +15) ?

Yes, but only because the system was implemented mid season with a 5000 point cap. And it’s a 1 time catchup only, and also depends on how much of the cap you got from doing 15s before you got the items you wanted.

750 per week is 6 dungeons (or 5 with some callings) which if you are farming 15s for items and great vault it also covers your valor.

Season 2 and beyond will see no benefit for high key players to fish low keys (like it should be).

[Kaver]

Yes, and people still brought up the argument that if you spend badges on the wrong item you wasted tons of time that you previously farmed for naught. That time is still gone and wasted... As is the nature of currency systems that's mixed with RNG loot. Anything that you can ever spend on anything can be dropped the next day if you are luck/unlucky. That people are "surprised" by this is what is interesting to me...

I see valor as bad luck protection for already geared characters. It seems like it's mostly meant to "fill the holes" when you have been extremely unlucky with the weekly vault for multiple weeks. For example my Rouge is 225 ilvl but hasn't gotten a dagger from the vault yet. So now I can at least get a 220 dagger with valor.

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Upgrading from 187 to 190 should not cost the same amount of valor as from 216 to 220. It is absurd.

I agree. But finishing a +2 keys shouldn't also give the same amount of valor as completing a +15 key.

[Kumorii]

I see valor as bad luck protection for already geared characters. It seems like it's mostly meant to "fill the holes" when you have been extremely unlucky with the weekly vault for multiple weeks. For example my Rouge is 225 ilvl but hasn't gotten a dagger from the vault yet. So now I can at least get a 220 dagger with valor.

That's exactly why valor was implemented. Peopled cried about having some currency to offset bad luck with vault and now we got a currency to offset bad luck with the vault. Many seem to have thought it would be the primary way to gear up tho. Which is just community expectations running rampant as often is the case.

[Kaver]

The VALOR system is clearly not intended for gearing new chars and with the KSM gating clearly not meant for casual players.

Of course it's not. Just because we get a new currency doesn't suddenly mean you can get 220 gear by doing world quests. Did you seriously expect that?

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That's exactly why valor was implemented. Peopled cried about having some currency to offset bad luck with vault and now we got a currency to offset bad luck with the vault. Many seem to have thought it would be the primary way to gear up tho. Which is just community expectations running rampant as often is the case.

Exactly. Especially "casuals" thought valor would be some magical system that would allow them to get 220 gear by doing world quests.

[ReVnX]

This VALOR implementation is the worst of any other time gated gearing system we had.

Lets look at someone with a MAIN + KSM and see how long it takes to gear a new char with this system.

* lets say you get into +2 dungeons with friends, to get the 5000+750/weekly valor points together and you get 1 187 (+2) gear for each itemslot on the way
=> 60750 VALOR POINTS NEEDED FOR UPGRADES

That would need 76+ WEEKS of valor capping just to get your gear to ilvl 220. And 14-15 keys in PUGs starting to require allready 218-220 to make the weekly keys with every affix in time. After 76 weeks of valor farming your new char would make the requirements for a weekly key (minus R.IO char rating)

The VALOR system is clearly not intended for gearing new chars and with the KSM gating clearly not meant for casual players.

So the whole system is just here to give fully geared 220-226+ players the OPTION to switch 1-2 pieces with BiS gear and even that might require 8-12 weeks.

You are not supposed to upgrade every single piece of gear to 220, much less starting from 187.

This is a bad luck protection system, not a full gearing path.

[Vasilisa]

Exactly. Especially "casuals" thought valor would be some magical system that would allow them to get 220 gear by doing world quests.

Unless you are trolling please explain to how doing wqs was supposed to give you 220 ilvl gear

[Kaver]

Unless you are trolling please explain to how doing wqs was supposed to give you 220 ilvl gear

Did you read what I wrote?

Especially "casuals" thought valor would be some magical system that would allow them to get 220 gear by doing world quests.

[ReVnX]

Unless you are trolling please explain to how doing wqs was supposed to give you 220 ilvl gear

He is saying that some people thought they could get full 220 by just doing the callings (hence WQs)

[Lathspell]

I'm sure the system is functioning as intended, if it was Blizzards intention for non KSM players to completely ignore the system. I just don't understand why they needed to help out the players who already have the most opportunities for good gear and do absolutely nothing for players who can't keep up.

Just to clarify I was hoping to just upgrade my alts to 207-213 slowly by doing my weekly keys (which I can do with the vault but randomly), not get 220 for doing WQ:s. Now I can't do that because I do want to get KSM at some point and use my valor for better upgrades after that.

I also don't get why it's bad to give an incentive for higher level players to do lower keys too? In WOTLK everyone did their daily heroics and weekly raids regardless of gear level pretty much.